[Arm-netbook] Logging and journaling

[Michael Howard]

On 09/02/2017 16:45, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
> ---
> crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 3:37 PM, Tzafrir Cohen <tzafrir at cohens.org.il> wrote:
>> On Thu, Feb 09, 2017 at 02:59:02PM +0000, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
>>> ---
>>> crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 1:50 PM, Stefan Monnier <monnier at iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> W.r.t to logging, I've agree that you're probably better off logging to
>>>> RAM (or to a remote host) than to a local "disk", and AFAIK that's the
>>>> default behavior of systemd anyway.
>>>   with the exception of fedora which has only a few backers i will NOT
>>> be distributing a filesystem which contains the completely
>>> unethically-developed and very dangerous systemd application.  having
>>> evaluated its development, watched the predicted security
>>> vulnerabilities unfold and cause massive disruption, and witnessed its
>>> "ram it down people's throats" deployment without due consideration or
>>> consultation with end-users, nor the distros respecting end-users
>>> rights to NOT be forced into using it, i cannot and will not be
>>> associated or endorse such totally unethical behaviour, so will be
>>> removing it from all rootfs images. post-distribution, if people then
>>> wish to undo that because they find systemd to be useful and have no
>>> objections to its usage they are entirely free to do so.
>> I very much like systemd and can hardly see myself using a system
>> without it. Thus I will personally want to have systemd on my systems.
>> Please don't make that too difficult a task for me.
>>
>> That is: you don't like systemd? fine. Installing Debian without it is
>> rather simple:
>> https://wiki.debian.org/systemd#Installing_without_systemd
>   does it include removal of libsystemd0?  (it doesn't).  it's not as
> straightforward as it's made out to be, tzafrir.
>
>> In that case, all I'll have to do would be to install a few more
>> packages (and maybe disable syslog logging to reduce unnecessary disk
>> writes, and similar tweaks).
>   i'm considering one of two options:
>
>   (1) providing the image (a snapshot of debian/testing from before
> jessie) i've been working with for a couple of years, now, as-is.  if
> people want to upgrade, they just do "apt-get dist-upgrade" and they
> get systemd and everything else.
>
>   (2) putting on angband.pl's nosystemd repositories.  this is "hard
> work" for me to both set up, and for others to remove (revert) just as
> you say, so i am unlikely to do it... but it's an option.
>
>
>> However, if "removing it from the rootfs" means something similar to
>> Devuan, then It'll probably be simpler for me to reinstall the image
>> with a proper Debian system.
>   that's why i made devuan available, separately.  which, after liking
> it for a long time i also have issues with: their mission statement
> says "all-inclusive PID1 choices"... yet systemd is *excluded* from
> that list.  that's disintegritous and so i will not be using devuan.
> if they gave people the *choice* i'd celebrate and be recommending
> devuan everywhere and to everyone.
>
That's a fair point, but the point of Devuan is/was to provide choice, a 
choice the Debian devs would not provide, and that is Debian without 
systemd. So, if you want systemd, go debian, if not, go devuan. Devuan 
_with_ systemd would be a debian mirror wouldn't it?

Anyway, the main thing is _choice_ and I choose devuan, others can 
choose whatever, whenever :)

Cheers,

-- 
Mike Howard
Lancashire
England