[Arm-netbook] Logging and journaling

[Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton]

---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68


On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 3:37 PM, Tzafrir Cohen <tzafrir at cohens.org.il> wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 09, 2017 at 02:59:02PM +0000, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
>> ---
>> crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 1:50 PM, Stefan Monnier <monnier at iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
>>
>> > W.r.t to logging, I've agree that you're probably better off logging to
>> > RAM (or to a remote host) than to a local "disk", and AFAIK that's the
>> > default behavior of systemd anyway.
>>
>>  with the exception of fedora which has only a few backers i will NOT
>> be distributing a filesystem which contains the completely
>> unethically-developed and very dangerous systemd application.  having
>> evaluated its development, watched the predicted security
>> vulnerabilities unfold and cause massive disruption, and witnessed its
>> "ram it down people's throats" deployment without due consideration or
>> consultation with end-users, nor the distros respecting end-users
>> rights to NOT be forced into using it, i cannot and will not be
>> associated or endorse such totally unethical behaviour, so will be
>> removing it from all rootfs images. post-distribution, if people then
>> wish to undo that because they find systemd to be useful and have no
>> objections to its usage they are entirely free to do so.
>
> I very much like systemd and can hardly see myself using a system
> without it. Thus I will personally want to have systemd on my systems.
> Please don't make that too difficult a task for me.
>
> That is: you don't like systemd? fine. Installing Debian without it is
> rather simple:
> https://wiki.debian.org/systemd#Installing_without_systemd

 does it include removal of libsystemd0?  (it doesn't).  it's not as
straightforward as it's made out to be, tzafrir.

> In that case, all I'll have to do would be to install a few more
> packages (and maybe disable syslog logging to reduce unnecessary disk
> writes, and similar tweaks).

 i'm considering one of two options:

 (1) providing the image (a snapshot of debian/testing from before
jessie) i've been working with for a couple of years, now, as-is.  if
people want to upgrade, they just do "apt-get dist-upgrade" and they
get systemd and everything else.

 (2) putting on angband.pl's nosystemd repositories.  this is "hard
work" for me to both set up, and for others to remove (revert) just as
you say, so i am unlikely to do it... but it's an option.


> However, if "removing it from the rootfs" means something similar to
> Devuan, then It'll probably be simpler for me to reinstall the image
> with a proper Debian system.

 that's why i made devuan available, separately.  which, after liking
it for a long time i also have issues with: their mission statement
says "all-inclusive PID1 choices"... yet systemd is *excluded* from
that list.  that's disintegritous and so i will not be using devuan.
if they gave people the *choice* i'd celebrate and be recommending
devuan everywhere and to everyone.

l.