[Arm-netbook] Logging and journaling

[Michael Howard]

On 09/02/2017 15:53, Adam Van Ymeren wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 10:37 AM, Tzafrir Cohen <tzafrir at cohens.org.il 
> <mailto:tzafrir at cohens.org.il>> wrote:
>
>     On Thu, Feb 09, 2017 at 02:59:02PM +0000, Luke Kenneth Casson
>     Leighton wrote:
>     > ---
>     > crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware:
>     https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
>     <https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68>
>     >
>     >
>     > On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 1:50 PM, Stefan Monnier
>     <monnier at iro.umontreal.ca <mailto:monnier at iro.umontreal.ca>> wrote:
>     >
>     > > W.r.t to logging, I've agree that you're probably better off
>     logging to
>     > > RAM (or to a remote host) than to a local "disk", and AFAIK
>     that's the
>     > > default behavior of systemd anyway.
>     >
>     >  with the exception of fedora which has only a few backers i
>     will NOT
>     > be distributing a filesystem which contains the completely
>     > unethically-developed and very dangerous systemd application. 
>     having
>     > evaluated its development, watched the predicted security
>     > vulnerabilities unfold and cause massive disruption, and
>     witnessed its
>     > "ram it down people's throats" deployment without due
>     consideration or
>     > consultation with end-users, nor the distros respecting end-users
>     > rights to NOT be forced into using it, i cannot and will not be
>     > associated or endorse such totally unethical behaviour, so will be
>     > removing it from all rootfs images. post-distribution, if people
>     then
>     > wish to undo that because they find systemd to be useful and have no
>     > objections to its usage they are entirely free to do so.
>
>     I very much like systemd and can hardly see myself using a system
>     without it. Thus I will personally want to have systemd on my systems.
>     Please don't make that too difficult a task for me.
>
>     That is: you don't like systemd? fine. Installing Debian without it is
>     rather simple:
>     https://wiki.debian.org/systemd#Installing_without_systemd
>     <https://wiki.debian.org/systemd#Installing_without_systemd>
>
>
> Please don't spread this mis-information.  Installing Debian without 
> systemd is far from simple, and many things just won't work right as 
> systemd has become a dependency on more and more packages.
>
> It's possible, yes, but it's not simple, not supported, and tends to 
> leave the user debugging weird behaviours.
>
This is not mis-information. Removing systemd from Debian (jessie) is 
simple, I did only a couple of days ago actually because it screwed with 
a mail server that was installed on the system.

Who cares if it's supported or not, the Debian devs didn't care whether 
users wanted it or not in the first place. Can have a link to some 
examples of 'user debugging weird behaviours'?

What really is simple, is to use Devuan instead :)

Cheers,

-- 
Mike Howard

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