<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
On 09/02/2017 15:53, Adam Van Ymeren wrote:<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAEJYOaUmk+6N57TKjndQm4N8Ldng3w3HtUWTqFvfBhofAcX8ug@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 10:37 AM,
Tzafrir Cohen <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:tzafrir@cohens.org.il" target="_blank">tzafrir@cohens.org.il</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span
class="">On Thu, Feb 09, 2017 at 02:59:02PM +0000, Luke
Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:<br>
> ---<br>
> crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.crowdsupply.com/<wbr>eoma68</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 1:50 PM, Stefan Monnier <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:monnier@iro.umontreal.ca">monnier@iro.umontreal.ca</a>>
wrote:<br>
><br>
> > W.r.t to logging, I've agree that you're
probably better off logging to<br>
> > RAM (or to a remote host) than to a local
"disk", and AFAIK that's the<br>
> > default behavior of systemd anyway.<br>
><br>
> with the exception of fedora which has only a few
backers i will NOT<br>
> be distributing a filesystem which contains the
completely<br>
> unethically-developed and very dangerous systemd
application. having<br>
> evaluated its development, watched the predicted
security<br>
> vulnerabilities unfold and cause massive
disruption, and witnessed its<br>
> "ram it down people's throats" deployment without
due consideration or<br>
> consultation with end-users, nor the distros
respecting end-users<br>
> rights to NOT be forced into using it, i cannot and
will not be<br>
> associated or endorse such totally unethical
behaviour, so will be<br>
> removing it from all rootfs images.
post-distribution, if people then<br>
> wish to undo that because they find systemd to be
useful and have no<br>
> objections to its usage they are entirely free to
do so.<br>
<br>
</span>I very much like systemd and can hardly see myself
using a system<br>
without it. Thus I will personally want to have systemd on
my systems.<br>
Please don't make that too difficult a task for me.<br>
<br>
That is: you don't like systemd? fine. Installing Debian
without it is<br>
rather simple:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://wiki.debian.org/systemd#Installing_without_systemd"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wiki.debian.org/<wbr>systemd#Installing_without_<wbr>systemd</a></blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please don't spread this mis-information. Installing
Debian without systemd is far from simple, and many things
just won't work right as systemd has become a dependency
on more and more packages.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>It's possible, yes, but it's not simple, not supported,
and tends to leave the user debugging weird behaviours.<br>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
This is not mis-information. Removing systemd from Debian (jessie)
is simple, I did only a couple of days ago actually because it
screwed with a mail server that was installed on the system.<br>
<br>
Who cares if it's supported or not, the Debian devs didn't care
whether users wanted it or not in the first place. Can have a link
to some examples of 'user debugging weird behaviours'?<br>
<br>
What really is simple, is to use Devuan instead :)<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Mike Howard
</pre>
</body>
</html>