[Arm-netbook] uh-oh....

[Gordan Bobic]

On 12/29/2011 10:00 PM, Michelle Konzack wrote:
> Hello Gordan Bobic,
>
> Am 2011-12-29 21:33:17, hacktest Du folgendes herunter:
>> Sure, but I'm talking about a tradeof between performance and openness.
>> Very few people have HD videos. Most people are more than happy to make
>> do with DVD quality, and 10in devices are typically at most 720p,
>> usually 1024x600.
>
> For me it would be emough, if I get a  fast  2D  GPU  which  can  handel
> 1600x1200/16M on a 19-20" TFT Display for my (industrial)  PanelPC.   Of
> course, it must be supported by X.org.
>
> However, it should be a LowPower GPU

Indeed, and if we exclude the usual suspects (PowerVR, Mali, Tegra) on 
the basis of closedness, it doesn't leave much.

>> So arguably, what can be done in software is fine for the vast majority
>> of users.
>
> Right
>
>> The point I'm getting at is - what happens when the manufacturer decided
>> they cannot be bothered to support a particular Xorg ABI any more, or
>> they cannot be bothered to update the driver to work with the new Xorg?
>
> Yeah!  I think about this problem since some time...
>
>>    From that point of view, a fully open and supportable crap GPU starts
>> to look appealing, since at least you get basic 2D accelerated
>> primitives you can use - with a closed GPU you get just a dumb frame
>> buffer device. Whether the difference is signifficant enough to matter,
>> I don't know.
>
> The question is, in which case do you need a full powered 3D engine?

Of course not. Seriously - how many people play 3D games on their ARMs? 
What percentage of users is that? My guess is that the fraction is 
downward of 1%. Movies - sure. But 3D gaming? I'm not convinced.

And an unused capability is a useless capability. So let's aim for the 
features that are _actually_ useful to a lot of people.

> My PanelPC is considered as Industrial/Lab/Office PC  and  not  resource
> hungry consumer suff.

And this use-case overlaps completely with just about any regular 
business use, AND most regular consumer use-cases. I have never actually 
seen anyone use a tablet for 3D gaming. Sure, I've played games on an 
Android device, but never a 3D one. I have an XBox-360 for that and a 
heavy-duty desktop box packing a 300W GPU. And yes, I have a Tegra based 
AC100 that _can_ do Quake 3 at 60fps - but it just doesn't strike me as 
the sort of thing that most of these devices will ever get used for. So 
perhaps it's time to re-think any requirment for 3D acceleration until 
there is an open and supportable 3D GPU.

Now, speaking of the Volari Z11, I dare say this looks exceedingly 
interesting!

http://www.adlinktech.com/PD/web/PD_detail.php?cKind=FN&pid=960

http://www.seco.it/en/item/secomgm-z11

http://www.sunix.com.tw/product/vga0411.html

I may just have to plug one of these into one of the Compulab SBC-A510 
boards (they have mini-PCIe on them) and see what happens. I might even 
be able to get a reasonably good power usage estimate. :)

The next trick, of course, would be to find a good, cheap ARM/MIPS, 
ideally without a built in GPU of it's own, with PCIe, that is fully 
documented and ideally upstreamed. The only thing that fits that 
description, unless I am mistaken, is Marvell Kirkwood, but the power 
consumption of that is a bit on the high side...

Nothing's ever simple, is it... :(

Gordan