very cool. it would be nice to have some specs - rated speed, interfaces, virtual memory capabilities and so on. finding out who's behind it would be a way to find out.
l.
On 11/3/16, Peter Carlson petercarlson79@gmail.com wrote:
I am on their mailing list but I'll see if there is some pre-release info.
On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 8:46 AM Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
very cool. it would be nice to have some specs - rated speed, interfaces, virtual memory capabilities and so on. finding out who's behind it would be a way to find out.
l.
On 11/3/16, Peter Carlson petercarlson79@gmail.com wrote:
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
what's the name of the group behind it, and who is in that group? there's been a lot of publications and discussions online about risc-v - it should not be hard to find what they're planning as it is extremely likely that it's been discussed online for several months if not years.
l.
On 11/3/16, Peter Carlson petercarlson79@gmail.com wrote:
I am on their mailing list but I'll see if there is some pre-release info.
On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 8:46 AM Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
very cool. it would be nice to have some specs - rated speed, interfaces, virtual memory capabilities and so on. finding out who's behind it would be a way to find out.
l.
On 11/3/16, Peter Carlson petercarlson79@gmail.com wrote:
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
On Thursday 3. November 2016 15.59.16 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
what's the name of the group behind it, and who is in that group? there's been a lot of publications and discussions online about risc-v
- it should not be hard to find what they're planning as it is
extremely likely that it's been discussed online for several months if not years.
We at least know who is fabricating their product:
https://www.crowdsupply.com/providers/electronics-fabrication/taiwan- semiconductor
That's rather interesting because I had the impression that TSMC was really for people committing to huge volumes, with orders covered by highly secretive contracts, which isn't what you'd normally associate with a crowdfunding campaign. But maybe they like to keep their older foundries busy with smaller- volume orders like this.
Paul
P.S. The Crowd Supply providers directory seems to be an interesting starting point for anyone looking for companies that do different things:
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 9:09 PM, Paul Boddie paul@boddie.org.uk wrote:
On Thursday 3. November 2016 15.59.16 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
what's the name of the group behind it, and who is in that group? there's been a lot of publications and discussions online about risc-v
- it should not be hard to find what they're planning as it is
extremely likely that it's been discussed online for several months if not years.
We at least know who is fabricating their product:
https://www.crowdsupply.com/providers/electronics-fabrication/taiwan- semiconductor
That's rather interesting because I had the impression that TSMC was really for people committing to huge volumes, with orders covered by highly secretive contracts, which isn't what you'd normally associate with a crowdfunding campaign. But maybe they like to keep their older foundries busy with smaller- volume orders like this.
yeah i investigated TSMC some time ago, iirc they still have down to .36 micron, typically used for power transistors and so on. they'll almost certainly have .18 micron and 65nm - all of these will be highly cost-effective (lots of competition), not in huge demand, and would also be a good proving-ground for an effort such as a RISC-V slow-speed 32-bit processor.
l.
http://www.electronics-eetimes.com/news/codasip-baysand-bring-risc-v-process...
may be related, may be not - this is 65nm (around 700mhz top speed) and 40nm (around... 1.2ghz top speed if you're very lucky and have a decent design).
"multivendor" program, basically you chuck a whole bunch of customer's designs onto a single wafer, absolutely nobody expects to get very many actual working ICs out of it, but the cost of a single wafer (bear in mind that 16 wafers have to be made simultaneously, total cost around $250k or that order, for 40nm) is subdivided amongst many many people. end result: relatively cheap prototype grade ICs.
the bit about conversion from FPGA... *shudder* that's truly dreadful, to not bother with the conversion from FPGA layout to a proper IC layout, just do like a "hard copy" of an FPGA, but given that the tools can cost $250k *PER WEEK* to rent (not buy) that's hardly surprising.
anyway all looks very interesting.
l.
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 4:57 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 9:09 PM, Paul Boddie paul@boddie.org.uk wrote:
On Thursday 3. November 2016 15.59.16 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
what's the name of the group behind it, and who is in that group? there's been a lot of publications and discussions online about risc-v
- it should not be hard to find what they're planning as it is
extremely likely that it's been discussed online for several months if not years.
We at least know who is fabricating their product:
https://www.crowdsupply.com/providers/electronics-fabrication/taiwan- semiconductor
That's rather interesting because I had the impression that TSMC was really for people committing to huge volumes, with orders covered by highly secretive contracts, which isn't what you'd normally associate with a crowdfunding campaign. But maybe they like to keep their older foundries busy with smaller- volume orders like this.
yeah i investigated TSMC some time ago, iirc they still have down to .36 micron, typically used for power transistors and so on. they'll almost certainly have .18 micron and 65nm - all of these will be highly cost-effective (lots of competition), not in huge demand, and would also be a good proving-ground for an effort such as a RISC-V slow-speed 32-bit processor.
l.
On Tuesday 22. November 2016 11.33.27 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
http://www.electronics-eetimes.com/news/codasip-baysand-bring-risc-v-proces sor-ip-market?news_id=88521
may be related, may be not - this is 65nm (around 700mhz top speed) and 40nm (around... 1.2ghz top speed if you're very lucky and have a decent design).
Well, it wasn't that! The Crowd Supply campaign for the microcontroller in question (not a system-on-a-chip) has just launched:
https://www.crowdsupply.com/onchip/open-v
"multivendor" program, basically you chuck a whole bunch of customer's designs onto a single wafer, absolutely nobody expects to get very many actual working ICs out of it, but the cost of a single wafer (bear in mind that 16 wafers have to be made simultaneously, total cost around $250k or that order, for 40nm) is subdivided amongst many many people. end result: relatively cheap prototype grade ICs.
Actually, this came up in the discussion on the Hackaday article linked to from the campaign:
http://hackaday.com/2016/10/10/the-journey-toward-a-completely-open- microcontroller/#comment-3227142
I think the term "multi-project wafer" is used, but it sounds like something rather similar.
Anyway, there is now another article about this campaign:
http://hackaday.com/2016/11/22/mrisc-v-the-first-open-source-risc-v- microcontroller/
the bit about conversion from FPGA... *shudder* that's truly dreadful, to not bother with the conversion from FPGA layout to a proper IC layout, just do like a "hard copy" of an FPGA, but given that the tools can cost $250k *PER WEEK* to rent (not buy) that's hardly surprising.
anyway all looks very interesting.
It certainly does. Clearly, the people doing it want to shake up the industry a bit by making the knowledge move around a bit more than it has been doing. Obviously, there are plenty of genuine economic obstacles around fabrication, as opposed to how much companies arbitrarily charge in licence fees for their tools, but somebody has to get the ball rolling.
Paul
On 22/11/2016, Paul Boddie paul@boddie.org.uk wrote:
On Tuesday 22. November 2016 11.33.27 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: Well, it wasn't that! The Crowd Supply campaign for the microcontroller in question (not a system-on-a-chip) has just launched:
Does anyone know if this new project is 100% free as in freedom? I know RISC-V is supposed to be free as in freedom, but what about the whole thing that they are crowdsourcing?
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 12:52 AM, Advrk Aplmrkt avkaplmkt@gmail.com wrote:
On 22/11/2016, Paul Boddie paul@boddie.org.uk wrote:
On Tuesday 22. November 2016 11.33.27 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: Well, it wasn't that! The Crowd Supply campaign for the microcontroller in question (not a system-on-a-chip) has just launched:
Does anyone know if this new project is 100% free as in freedom? I know RISC-V is supposed to be free as in freedom, but what about the whole thing that they are crowdsourcing?
probably but unfortunately they use the words "open source". best to use the "ask a question" to get in touch with them.
l.
On Wednesday 23. November 2016 01.52.53 Advrk Aplmrkt wrote:
On 22/11/2016, Paul Boddie paul@boddie.org.uk wrote:
On Tuesday 22. November 2016 11.33.27 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: Well, it wasn't that! The Crowd Supply campaign for the microcontroller in question (not a system-on-a-chip) has just launched:
Does anyone know if this new project is 100% free as in freedom? I know RISC-V is supposed to be free as in freedom, but what about the whole thing that they are crowdsourcing?
The first words of the campaign mail were "Libre silicon anyone?", and the campaign material suggests that they know the difference between "open" and what people have been calling "libre", but you should just ask them anyway.
Paul
On 23/11/2016, Paul Boddie paul@boddie.org.uk wrote:
On Wednesday 23. November 2016 01.52.53 Advrk Aplmrkt wrote:
On 22/11/2016, Paul Boddie paul@boddie.org.uk wrote:
On Tuesday 22. November 2016 11.33.27 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: Well, it wasn't that! The Crowd Supply campaign for the microcontroller in question (not a system-on-a-chip) has just launched:
Does anyone know if this new project is 100% free as in freedom? I know RISC-V is supposed to be free as in freedom, but what about the whole thing that they are crowdsourcing?
The first words of the campaign mail were "Libre silicon anyone?", and the campaign material suggests that they know the difference between "open" and what people have been calling "libre", but you should just ask them anyway.
Paul
Just asked, hope to get a positive response!
I just got a reponse. They re-iterated that there are "no binary blobs or proprietary microcode on the Open-V microcontroller". Interestingly they also said "for RYF certification, we hadn't really considered it because the FSF likely has no interest in certifying microcontrollers. Of course, now we're curious, so we'll get in touch with them and find out!"
I hope this is a good sign?
On 23/11/2016, Advrk Aplmrkt avkaplmkt@gmail.com wrote:
On 23/11/2016, Paul Boddie paul@boddie.org.uk wrote:
On Wednesday 23. November 2016 01.52.53 Advrk Aplmrkt wrote:
On 22/11/2016, Paul Boddie paul@boddie.org.uk wrote:
On Tuesday 22. November 2016 11.33.27 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: Well, it wasn't that! The Crowd Supply campaign for the microcontroller in question (not a system-on-a-chip) has just launched:
Does anyone know if this new project is 100% free as in freedom? I know RISC-V is supposed to be free as in freedom, but what about the whole thing that they are crowdsourcing?
The first words of the campaign mail were "Libre silicon anyone?", and the campaign material suggests that they know the difference between "open" and what people have been calling "libre", but you should just ask them anyway.
Paul
Just asked, hope to get a positive response!
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Thu, Nov 24, 2016 at 2:55 AM, Advrk Aplmrkt avkaplmkt@gmail.com wrote:
I just got a reponse. They re-iterated that there are "no binary blobs or proprietary microcode on the Open-V microcontroller". Interestingly they also said "for RYF certification, we hadn't really considered it because the FSF likely has no interest in certifying microcontrollers. Of course, now we're curious, so we'll get in touch with them and find out!"
can you please send me their email addresses (by way of cc introduction) and i'll introduce them.
l.
On 24/11/2016, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
On Thu, Nov 24, 2016 at 2:55 AM, Advrk Aplmrkt avkaplmkt@gmail.com wrote:
I just got a reponse. They re-iterated that there are "no binary blobs or proprietary microcode on the Open-V microcontroller". Interestingly they also said "for RYF certification, we hadn't really considered it because the FSF likely has no interest in certifying microcontrollers. Of course, now we're curious, so we'll get in touch with them and find out!"
can you please send me their email addresses (by way of cc introduction) and i'll introduce them.
l.
OK, will do! Maybe one day there will be a RISC-V based EOMA68 computer!
On 24/11/2016, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
On Thu, Nov 24, 2016 at 2:55 AM, Advrk Aplmrkt avkaplmkt@gmail.com wrote:
I just got a reponse. They re-iterated that there are "no binary blobs or proprietary microcode on the Open-V microcontroller". Interestingly they also said "for RYF certification, we hadn't really considered it because the FSF likely has no interest in certifying microcontrollers. Of course, now we're curious, so we'll get in touch with them and find out!"
can you please send me their email addresses (by way of cc introduction) and i'll introduce them.
l.
Just sent them an email CC-ing you. Hope I did it correctly!
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Thu, Nov 24, 2016 at 10:31 PM, Advrk Aplmrkt avkaplmkt@gmail.com wrote:
Just sent them an email CC-ing you. Hope I did it correctly!
thx a
arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk
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Advrk Aplmrkt -
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton -
Paul Boddie -
Peter Carlson