On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 3:34 AM, Kyle kyle@free2.ml wrote:
Damn. You know a list has been taken over by posting nazis when entire threads get hijacked just to tell anyone who cares to listen that someone top posted, and that breaks someone's flow.
nooo: it means that we have new people whom we need to accommodate and teach them how to not disrupt communication with over 400 other people. as we get new people, that discussion naturally needs to take place regularly.
Well, here's the deal. My e-mail client is threaded, so I see the whole conversation in order. It just flows naturally that way.
indeed... but you are just one of the 400+ people. i don't use a threaded email client; others may use mutt, and so on.
If I want to read the same messages over and over, all I have to do is open them as many times as I want. There is therefore no need to quote anything at all, as I have the entire context.
there is no need to quote anything at all... *for you*, as *you* have the entire context, and have an email client where it is convenient to review prior messages very very easily.
a busy person (one who has hundreds of messages a day) would not have the time to do that - hence the reason why there are rules about providing (and cutting unnecessary) context.
I'm looking at you especially, hard-core bottom posters,
hard-core bottom-posting is just as bad, as is not cutting extraneous context
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 8:42 PM, "Person B" person.b@othermail.ext wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 8:34 PM, "Person A" person.a@email.ext wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 8:32 PM, "Person B" person.b@othermail.ext wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 8:30 PM, "Person A" person.a@email.ext
this kind of thing - not cutting extraneous context - is *really* irritating to have to read through. like the wikipedia page says, and every netiquette page says, it's really important to remove anything (but ONLY anything) which is not needed. the remaining context should make the ongoing immediate discussion "understandable". issues that have already been discussed, resolved and do not need to be repeated should be removed.
it's pretty sensible stuff
I find this list to be quite informative, and I see a lot of good things coming in the hopefully not-too-distant future because of the ongoing work that is taking place here, as well as on various pages and articles linked here. However, post police hijacking threads to tell people they're posting wrong, when all they want to do is contribute to the discussion is counterproductive at best, has happened 2 to 3 times just on this list in the past 24 hours,
please be patient: we have new people coming in all the time.
has completely derailed a thread at least once in that time and is enough to make people who otherwise have good contributions want to leave.
well, one of the things we don't unfortunately enforce properly is good subject-line management, which would allow people to select the topics that they're interested in. so, i'm going to try to start doing that and would appreciate people doing the same.
l.
On 09/05/17 20:55, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
nooo: it means that we have new people whom we need to accommodate and teach them how to not disrupt communication with over 400 other people. as we get new people, that discussion naturally needs to take place regularly.
Is there perhaps a link to a good primer on mailing list posting etiquette that should be added to the welcome message for new subscribers?
this kind of thing - not cutting extraneous context - is *really* irritating to have to read through.
Thanks for mentioning this one. I've thought about saying something about the looong messages with a short bit at the bottom, but I think this one is better coming from you as list owner.
Tor
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 8:16 AM, Tor, the Marqueteur Marqueteur@fineartmarquetry.com wrote:
On 09/05/17 20:55, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
nooo: it means that we have new people whom we need to accommodate and teach them how to not disrupt communication with over 400 other people. as we get new people, that discussion naturally needs to take place regularly.
Is there perhaps a link to a good primer on mailing list posting etiquette that should be added to the welcome message for new subscribers?
*click*... oh yeah :)
Hello,
well, one of the things we don't unfortunately enforce properly is good subject-line management, which would allow people to select the topics that they're interested in. so, i'm going to try to start doing that and would appreciate people doing the same.
Could you also add something about staying on-topic, thanks.
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 6:19 PM, Vincent Legoll vincent.legoll@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
well, one of the things we don't unfortunately enforce properly is good subject-line management, which would allow people to select the topics that they're interested in. so, i'm going to try to start doing that and would appreciate people doing the same.
Could you also add something about staying on-topic, thanks.
awww! i quite _like_ the horrendous straying off-topic-ness :) would you settle for asking people to start a new thread?
l.
Could you also add something about staying on-topic, thanks.
awww! i quite _like_ the horrendous straying off-topic-ness :)
OK, your call...
would you settle for asking people to start a new thread?
Nope, I prefer when people follow the rules by themselves, I'm not doing ML-police.
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Vincent Legoll vincent.legoll@gmail.com wrote:
Could you also add something about staying on-topic, thanks.
awww! i quite _like_ the horrendous straying off-topic-ness :)
OK, your call...
it is... but that's just me. let me put it another way: what benefit would it bring to this list, and what would we lose, to ask people to stay on-topic? serious question. if we're to make such a far-reaching change to the operation of the list, it really does need to be discussed and analysed, what would be the consequences.
would you settle for asking people to start a new thread?
Nope, I prefer when people follow the rules by themselves, I'm not doing ML-police.
luckily you don't have to: that's my role :)
l.
On 05/10/2017 03:17 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Vincent Legoll vincent.legoll@gmail.com wrote:
Could you also add something about staying on-topic, thanks.
awww! i quite _like_ the horrendous straying off-topic-ness :)
OK, your call...
it is... but that's just me. let me put it another way: what benefit would it bring to this list, and what would we lose, to ask people to stay on-topic? serious question. if we're to make such a far-reaching change to the operation of the list, it really does need to be discussed and analysed, what would be the consequences.
would you settle for asking people to start a new thread?
Nope, I prefer when people follow the rules by themselves, I'm not doing ML-police.
luckily you don't have to: that's my role :)
I am curious, should we refocus on some of the pressing issues?
such as the rk3288 and the rk3399? hehehe.
l.
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On 05/10/2017 05:24 PM, zap wrote:
On 05/10/2017 03:17 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Vincent Legoll vincent.legoll@gmail.com wrote:
Could you also add something about staying on-topic, thanks.
awww! i quite _like_ the horrendous straying off-topic-ness :)
OK, your call...
it is... but that's just me. let me put it another way: what benefit would it bring to this list, and what would we lose, to ask people to stay on-topic? serious question. if we're to make such a far-reaching change to the operation of the list, it really does need to be discussed and analysed, what would be the consequences.
would you settle for asking people to start a new thread?
Nope, I prefer when people follow the rules by themselves, I'm not doing ML-police.
luckily you don't have to: that's my role :)
I am curious, should we refocus on some of the pressing issues?
such as the rk3288 and the rk3399? hehehe.
ps, I know I am to blame for some of the off topic discussions so I apologize if its getting too off topic,
I am curious though, how far have you gotten Luke with the a20 version, etc,
l.
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On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 10:29 PM, zap zapper@openmailbox.org wrote:
I am curious though, how far have you gotten Luke with the a20 version, etc,
no change: waiting is waiting. send board off, wait for 2-4 weeks for it to be done. nothing i can do in the meantime, absolutely nothing i can do to speed it up (and asking costs money and often gets WORSE quality as they rush it).
that's just how hardware is.
l.
On 05/10/2017 06:48 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 10:29 PM, zap zapper@openmailbox.org wrote:
I am curious though, how far have you gotten Luke with the a20 version, etc,
no change: waiting is waiting. send board off, wait for 2-4 weeks for it to be done. nothing i can do in the meantime, absolutely nothing i can do to speed it up (and asking costs money and often gets WORSE quality as they rush it).
that's just how hardware is.
Ah, I guess I need to pay attention to the threads more, I had thought you not talking about anymore recently was a good sign...
oh well.
l.
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On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 10:24 PM, zap zapper@openmailbox.org wrote:
I am curious, should we refocus on some of the pressing issues?
such as the rk3288 and the rk3399? hehehe.
:) if i didn't have time i would leave these discussions alone... except if i thought they were important. i'm waiting for some boards to be done and arrive from china, and am re-focussing on the 3D printing.
l.
On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 07:38:22PM +0100, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
awww! i quite _like_ the horrendous straying off-topic-ness :) would you settle for asking people to start a new thread?
Or at least change the subject line when the subject changes?
-- hendrik
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 1:30 AM, Hendrik Boom hendrik@topoi.pooq.com wrote:
On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 07:38:22PM +0100, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
awww! i quite _like_ the horrendous straying off-topic-ness :) would you settle for asking people to start a new thread?
Or at least change the subject line when the subject changes?
yehyeh, that's what i meant
Just some thoughts ... If the topic changes, starting a new thread is better than just changing the subject line, as I may not be interested in the topic that starts the thread, but if only the subject line changes and the thread doesn't change, my threaded e-mail client will usually delete messages I'm interested in along with the messages that didn't interest me at the beginning of the thread. It probably makes little difference to readers who don't use threaded mail clients, but those of us who do are greatly helped when a thread stays on topic as much as possible, and a new topic, even if it springs from a discussion on another thread, starts a new thread. That said, it can be hard to determine when a new thread should start when a new topic springs from a discussion on one thread, depending how related to the original topic the new one is, and how far it could stray in the future. In such cases, simply changing the subject line is probably sufficient. ~Kyle
arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk
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Hendrik Boom -
Kyle -
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton -
Tor, the Marqueteur -
Vincent Legoll -
zap