hi oliver, thanks for your support here. we'll get there. will have to see about FOSDEM.
regarding linux-sunxi: what pissed me off was two things. the first was that i wasn't even told it was happening, wasn't consulted, and found out *months* after it had been set up. the second is that the decision was taken to use non-free proprietary hosting services when, if i *had* been consulted, i would have been able to point people in the direction of several the highly-experienced software libre sysadmins i know who would have immediately said "yes" if anyone had bothered to ask them if they could add domain names, mailing lists, or any number of software libre packages, and they would have helped run them at zero financial cost, because that's what these highly-experienced people do already, for dozens of custom project, and have done now for decades ... but you know this already: i've mentioned it a number of times.
so, to repeat: if you would like me to be directly involved in the linux-sunxi community, *stop* using google's proprietary mailing list. subscribe it as a one-way archive if you want, and subscribe gmane.org as well to it (like arm-netbooks is) so that people can use a web browser to post and still maintain thread continuity. also i will not submit patches via github: i revoked my account on it because again that is a non-free proprietary service. so you neither have a means for me to notify the sunxi community of patches, nor do you have a means for me to push patches _to_ the sunxi community, because you didn't consult or involve me in the creation of the sunxi community and chose to use proprietary software services for quotes convenience quotes.
if that's useful to you to continue to maintain that situation, please continue to do so - nobody, least of all i, will tell you what to do. i will however advise you each time this comes up what the consequences are of the decision that was made, and the consequences are that you will have to work harder and harder to keep track.
l.
On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 11:25 AM, arm-netbook-bounces@lists.phcomp.co.uk wrote:
The attached message has been automatically discarded.
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Oliver Schinagl oliver+list@schinagl.nl To: Linux on small ARM machines arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk Cc: Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2013 12:23:31 +0100 Subject: Re: Flashing the NAND Hey list,
On 06-12-13 21:52, luke.leighton wrote:
replies brief, fell off bicycle, damaged shoulder.
Ouch, you always do have bad luck :( Hope you get well soon!
On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 5:30 PM, Aaron J. Seigo aseigo@kde.org wrote:
On Friday, December 6, 2013 14:55:43 luke.leighton wrote:
On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 1:20 PM, Aaron J. Seigo aseigo@kde.org wrote:
On Friday, December 6, 2013 12:44:42 luke.leighton wrote:
knowledge is being generated and then *thrown away*.
not when i'm doing it. i document everything as i'm going along, because i've done this a number of times. it does however begin to
I know you try to do this, but it isn’t producing results useful to others.
notes needed. info good. not enough collaboration. too early.
try my patience to have to follow up pretty much every single message to arm-netbooks with "could you please put that on the wiki”.
That’s because the wiki is not useful. If it were, people would be using it.
no product. beyond most people to be honest. i'm motivated, but not paid. others: no motivation, nor any pay. result: no long-term contributions! lots of people help along the way though. really really grateful.
In part this is because there is no “the wiki”: there is the wiki on rhombus- tech.net which starts with "Welcome to Rhombus Tech, a CIC company”, there is elinux.org which a wonderful maze of relevant and not-relevant information and there is the linux-sunxi.org wiki.
sunxi went off did their own thing.
Without trying to step on any toes, I'll firstly even say, Luke you know I think you are doing a great and admirable thing, but let me at least explain or clarify a little here.
When I joined linux-sunxi, well I joined the arm-netbook IRC first, I didn't even know about the EOMA86. Or at least didn't know how/if it related to sunxi. I was looking for A10 information as I recently got a tablet with that SoC and was looking for a mediacenter for a while. The XBMC A10 thread actually triggered me and even bought a Pivos first (I sold it) because it was initially said the AMLogic was the best solution available (still no bootloader/VPU driver do they?).
So while I got there after the 'split' but it makes perfect sense to be fair.
EOMA86 is a project about this awesome board, with any chip on it. The first produced choice is the A[12]0. Linux-sunxi is just about these SoC's, development for them and not really about EOMA86. I'd almost go as far as to say it's more about the olimex and cubietech boards (they sent out dev-boards to the devs) now.
So while I know you are a little sad about the split and the way it went (I wasn't there, but know it was in no way intended to be against you or the project) don't be. It's evolution if anything and if anything we should work closer together.
On that note, will EOMA86 be at FSODEM 2014?
Oliver
We should discuss all this during the future irc meeting, starting by defining what our needs are as a group, what our expectations are, cataloging our current assets and then creating process that may work for us to move us forward.
good idea. you're good at that. i have a different style.
"would people be open to having one with the goal of improving this situation?”
yes!
ok, cool. for you, evenings (UTC) and weekends work better than daytime, correct?
yes.
i’m thinking of something in early January to get this started ...
great.
-- Aaron J. Seigo
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On Saturday, December 7, 2013 14:32:15 luke.leighton wrote:
regarding linux-sunxi: what pissed me off was two things. the first was that i wasn't even told it was happening, wasn't consulted, and found out *months* after it had been set up. the second is that the
... and this, in a nutshell, is why having meetings from time to time is sensible.
On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 1:38 AM, Aaron J. Seigo aseigo@kde.org wrote:
On Saturday, December 7, 2013 14:32:15 luke.leighton wrote:
regarding linux-sunxi: what pissed me off was two things. the first was that i wasn't even told it was happening, wasn't consulted, and found out *months* after it had been set up. the second is that the
... and this, in a nutshell, is why having meetings from time to time is sensible.
very good point.
On Sat, Dec 7, 2013, at 06:32 AM, luke.leighton wrote: the second is that the decision was taken to use non-free proprietary hosting services . . . . to repeat: if you would like me to be directly involved in the linux-sunxi community, *stop* using google's proprietary mailing list. . . . . - nobody, least of all i, will tell you what to do. i will however advise you each time this comes up what the consequences are of the decision that was made, and the consequences are that you will have to work harder and harder to keep track."
I commend Luke Leighton for taking the time and effort to request open source in every aspect, including hosting services.
I support Luke Leighton's request for linux-sunxi to cease using a proprietary hosting service. Linux-sunxi should cease because:
(1) compromising indicates thoughtfulness and willingness to negotiate; (2) It is hypocritical to use free software yet not use available free hosting services; (3) the wide spread use free hosting services will promote others to use them; (4) Google has become far more evil in spying; and (5) NSA and GCHQ uses Google's cookies for masss surveillance.
I will go further and ask that linux-sunxi stop using google's mailing list. Could some member of both mailing lists post my request on the linux-sunxi mailing list?
Google requires a cell phone number to register for gmail. Google requires posting a photograph to register for Google Circles.
"According to the documents, the NSA and its British counterpart, GCHQ, are using the small tracking files or "cookies" that advertising networks place on computers to identify people browsing the Internet. The intelligence agencies have found particular use for a part of a Google-specific tracking mechanism known as the “PREF” cookie."
"For many users, the extent of your tracking can be quite an eye-opener. For example, if you are an Android user, and you routinely use Google on your laptop or other home or office computer, try this: https://maps.google.com/locationhistory/b/0" http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/12/10/nsa-uses-google...
"Google Block" as an add-on in firefox is not enough. I do not use google to search. No Script shows numerous websites I go to use google analytics. Since 2010, I have used live linux DVD to go online. Cookies aren't stored but the UUIDs of my harddrive, wifi and possibly processor are.
On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 10:47 AM, freebirds@fastmail.fm wrote:
Google requires a cell phone number to register for gmail.
No they don't. I was able to register a new gmail address without providing them my mobile number. (this was in an incognito window in Chromium, from a shared IP address with thousands of Google accounts users behind it, so there's no obvious way to tie the newly registered account to my actual identity.)
Holy crap. I wasn't aware that Google was storing my location history. This means that Google knows where my girlfriend's and several of my friends' houses are. I'm disabling that right now and deleting all my location history.
That said, I can understand why the linux-sunxi project chose to use Google groups and github for code hosting. Using gratis services removes the burden of hosting their own git repository or mailing list, and lowers the barrier to entry because millions of people have Google and github accounts already and may not want [ugh] an account on one more service. I've experienced this myself -- I used to have several email accounts, but I've since consolidated them by forwarding into one personal email account and the account that my university gives me.
On Wed, Dec 11, 2013, at 08:27 AM, Alison Chan wrote: I was able to register a new gmail address without providing them my mobile number. (this was in an incognito window in
Chromium, from a shared IP address with thousands of Google accounts > users behind it, so there's no obvious way to tie the newly registered > account to my actual identity.)
Alison Chan, I do not use Chromium. Use another browser and go to Google's registration link for gmail.com which is below. Did you get the same registration form using both browsers?
One of Google's requirements IS to enter a MOBILE phone number. Google, craigslist.org, paypal.com, etc. do not accept voicemail numbers or landline numbers. They require a mobile number. Mobile numbers are easily geolocated.
Google is also requiring new customers' other email address on the registration form. More invasion of privacy and geostalking.
https://accounts.google.com/SignUp?service=mail&hl=en&continue=http%...
Holy crap. I wasn't aware that Google was storing my location history.
I calculate how may trolls there are in government, and how much information they are collecting and conclude they can't use it effectively should you inundate them with information. It takes a small army paid for by tax payers to sift the information to summarise anything relevant. With 100,000 to 1 million trolls in government, there isn't enough trolls in government around to do the dirty on everyone all at the same time these days. Increasing the number of employees working for the trolls in government risks leaking the dirt which spreads like wildfire.
So do a lot of things, email everybody, ring everybody and inundate is my advise based on maths of the current situation so that trolls in government are forced to reduce their attention time on innocent people and spend more time with those that deserve it. :)
ons 2013-12-11 klockan 11:27 -0500 skrev Alison Chan:
On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 10:47 AM, freebirds@fastmail.fm wrote:
Google requires a cell phone number to register for gmail.
No they don't. I was able to register a new gmail address without providing them my mobile number.
Plus the fact that google groups are used for mailing lists do not at all mean that you need a gmail account to use them.
Regards Henrik
Henrik Nordström henrik@henriknordstrom.net writes:
ons 2013-12-11 klockan 11:27 -0500 skrev Alison Chan:
On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 10:47 AM, freebirds@fastmail.fm wrote:
Google requires a cell phone number to register for gmail.
No they don't. I was able to register a new gmail address without providing them my mobile number.
Plus the fact that google groups are used for mailing lists do not at all mean that you need a gmail account to use them.
The problem I have with google groups is that they let list admins add anyone to their lists, without any attempt to confirm that you (the victim) wants to be on this spammers' new list.
It seems that the only way to stop them sending the spam, or report it, involves signing up for a google account associated with the victim address.
I have no interest in signing up every address that might be targeted thus, just to untick the relevant box, so I instead treat all mails from google groups as spam, which seems like the only viable alternative.
It's possible that I'm alone in doing this, but I'd suggest that until Google do something about the rampant spam problem they cannot expect people to receive their mail.
They could trivially fix this by sending out confirmation requests before subscription and censuring admins who get too low a proportion of acknowledgements to their mass-subscribes.
Perhaps Google prefers to collude with the spammers and thus apply this not-so-subtle sign-up pressure on the victims, but that hardly seems to be consistent with their "Do no evil" mantra.
Cheers, Phil.
On 12/11/2013 04:47 PM, freebirds@fastmail.fm wrote:
I will go further and ask that linux-sunxi stop using google's mailing list. Could some member of both mailing lists post my request on the linux-sunxi mailing list?
this is getting ridiculous, you are in no position at all to make any request about what an (open source) project should or should not do.
On Thu, 2013-12-12 at 11:20 +0100, Vladimir Pantelic wrote:
On 12/11/2013 04:47 PM, freebirds@fastmail.fm wrote:
I will go further and ask that linux-sunxi stop using google's mailing list. Could some member of both mailing lists post my request on the linux-sunxi mailing list?
this is getting ridiculous, you are in no position at all to make any request about what an (open source) project should or should not do.
Yes he is - as it was conditional and self explanatory - here is the condition that was snipped:
"so, to repeat: if you would like me to be directly involved in the linux-sunxi community, *stop* using google's proprietary mailing list."
(Personally I believe its draining time from project work when there is so much to be getting on with any ways.)
In other news:
Anyone up for HK / Shenzhen component sourcing guided tour? Last call before bookings are made for component sourcing and soft landing experience if you are in the real world deep end of electronics manufacturing. :)
On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 11:42 AM, joem joem@martindale-electric.co.uk wrote:
In other news:
Anyone up for HK / Shenzhen component sourcing guided tour?
mmmmm love to, but i can't book that far ahead: remember this isn't yet a financially self-funded project: we're still at an early phase and i can't make those kinds of committments yet. maybe *by* february things will be different - i'd like them to be!
apologies.
l.
In other news:
Anyone up for HK / Shenzhen component sourcing guided tour?
mmmmm love to, but i can't book that far ahead: remember this isn't yet a financially self-funded project: we're still at an early phase and i can't make those kinds of committments yet. maybe *by* february things will be different - i'd like them to be!
apologies.
If you can make it, its 2nd week of February and meet in HK airport. If you missed the meeting time, its a bit of a hard and long trek into Shenzhen border crossing by yourself, but we can meet you other side. Or you can go into Guangzhou international airport directly and we pick you up from there when you exit.
You pay all your own expenses, there is no fees as such for joining us, as its an open source get together + sourcing thing. About USD2000 in actual expenses I would imagine, and you need a safety net of USD5000 on a card in case of unexpected problems. The trip is worth its weight in gold if you are in deep end of electronic manufacturing.
It does not cover plastics, software or product design because those factories are far away and meeting them in their factory might drain 1 to 2 days per factory.
If you buy samples, the factory hosting this thing will package it and send it so you are not lumbered carrying it.
On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Vladimir Pantelic vladoman@gmail.com wrote:
On 12/11/2013 04:47 PM, freebirds@fastmail.fm wrote:
I will go further and ask that linux-sunxi stop using google's mailing list. Could some member of both mailing lists post my request on the linux-sunxi mailing list?
this is getting ridiculous, you are in no position at all to make any request about what an (open source) project should or should not do.
indeed. this is the last thing i will say on this subject, and it's something that i've refrained from pointing out until now. let's imagine that someone is in a position to finance a project, having made some money through selling hardware and also respecting software freedom. let's imagine that there is a community that endorses the use of proprietary software services "for convenience", and the well-financed project's goals also include the promotion of respect for software freedom in all its aspects. what do you rate the chances of that community receiving any money from the well-financed project? you do not need to answer, vladimir.
l.
On 12/12/2013 07:26 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Vladimir Pantelic vladoman@gmail.com wrote:
... for software freedom in all its aspects. what do you rate the chances of that community receiving any money from the well-financed project? you do not need to answer, vladimir.
still ridiculous
arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk
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Aaron J. Seigo -
Alison Chan -
freebirds＠fastmail.fm -
Henrik Nordström -
joem -
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton -
luke.leighton -
Philip Hands -
Vladimir Pantelic