A bit off-topic, perhaps, but this article illustrates the difficulties that large corporations have with long term visions, especially in cases where sustainability has to compete with profitability:
http://venturebeat.com/2017/01/10/inside-project-ara-googles-revolutionary- modular-phone/
Found via OSNews: http://www.osnews.com/story/29600/The_dream_of_Ara
I think the drive to focus on profits and what "consumers" supposedly want in corporate environments tends to undermine projects like these, even when the work is being done in part of an organisation that is supposed to be shielded from commercial concerns. Because conventional wisdom suggests that the public won't buy modular phones, no modular phones are made, even if there might be a demand for them if they were made. Indeed, just the availability of modular phones might drive demand for them.
This suggests a lack of imagination on the industry's part which I think is shown by the example of a phone module given in the article: a tiny "aquarium". Very interesting, but not really something that would sell the practical benefits of modularity. Of course, you need examples of what the system can do, but it's often the case that the most interesting ideas come from third parties. Just getting the devices out there with open specs and documentation would be enough to find the interesting use cases.
Anyway, this is only sort of relevant here, but I hope it was thought provoking. ;-)
David
On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 11:47 AM, David Boddie david@boddie.org.uk wrote:
A bit off-topic, perhaps, but this article illustrates the difficulties that large corporations have with long term visions, especially in cases where sustainability has to compete with profitability:
http://venturebeat.com/2017/01/10/inside-project-ara-googles-revolutionary- modular-phone/
Anyway, this is only sort of relevant here, but I hope it was thought provoking. ;-)
no, always appreciated, david.
l.
With a little ingenuity you could probably make a EOMA50 phablet size smartphone
On January 12, 2017 2:47:31 PM GMT+03:00, David Boddie david@boddie.org.uk wrote:
A bit off-topic, perhaps, but this article illustrates the difficulties that large corporations have with long term visions, especially in cases where sustainability has to compete with profitability:
http://venturebeat.com/2017/01/10/inside-project-ara-googles-revolutionary- modular-phone/
Found via OSNews: http://www.osnews.com/story/29600/The_dream_of_Ara
I think the drive to focus on profits and what "consumers" supposedly want in corporate environments tends to undermine projects like these, even when the work is being done in part of an organisation that is supposed to be shielded from commercial concerns. Because conventional wisdom suggests that the public won't buy modular phones, no modular phones are made, even if there might be a demand for them if they were made. Indeed, just the availability of modular phones might drive demand for them.
This suggests a lack of imagination on the industry's part which I think is shown by the example of a phone module given in the article: a tiny "aquarium". Very interesting, but not really something that would sell the practical benefits of modularity. Of course, you need examples of what the system can do, but it's often the case that the most interesting ideas come from third parties. Just getting the devices out there with open specs and documentation would be enough to find the interesting use cases.
Anyway, this is only sort of relevant here, but I hope it was thought provoking. ;-)
David
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
I think my FairPhone 2, which I own for a month, is some kind of a modular smartphone. I use it with the FairPhone Open Os, which is Google free. Of course I could root it without problems. I know (luke) that it is not real free hardware and comes with blobs. But I think, it is the most fair and free Smartphone, which one can get at the moment.
For me it makes sense to support it and demand from Fairphone to make it more fair and more free.
Wolfgang
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:13 PM, Wolfgang Romey hier@wolfgangromey.de wrote:
I think my FairPhone 2, which I own for a month, is some kind of a modular smartphone.
it's not: they lied.
I use it with the FairPhone Open Os, which is Google free. Of course I could root it without problems. I know (luke) that it is not real free hardware and comes with blobs.
you mean, "it comes with software from one of THE most unethical companies in the world that is undergoing court cases for anti-competitive practices, where we KNOW that they just roll over and give direct access, through their OS, *AT RUNTIME*, to allow arbitrary code-execution OVER THE AIR without your knowledge, EVEN IF THE DEVICE IS POWERED DOWN?"
l.
2017-01-13 4:56 GMT+01:00 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:13 PM, Wolfgang Romey hier@wolfgangromey.de wrote:
I think my FairPhone 2, which I own for a month, is some kind of a
modular
smartphone.
it's not: they lied.
If they're intentions were honest it's not a lie. It's just being naive.
But all most parts are, user, replaceable. Which indeed does not make it modular, but serviceable.
If there is a true lie, I'd like to hear about it.
I use it with the FairPhone Open Os, which is Google free. Of course I could root it without problems. I know (luke) that it is not
real
free hardware and comes with blobs.
you mean, "it comes with software from one of THE most unethical companies in the world that is undergoing court cases for anti-competitive practices
That's true for most companies. BTW which company are we talking about. Farphone1: Mediatek SoC Faiphone2: Quallcomm snapdragon SoC
, where we KNOW that they just roll over and
give direct access, through their OS, *AT RUNTIME*, to allow arbitrary code-execution OVER THE AIR without your knowledge, EVEN IF THE DEVICE IS POWERED DOWN?"
Which is true for every GSM modem and SIM card, mandated by the GSM network operators and probably, directly or indirectly, some government agency's.
The biggest issue is that they've tied the modem and SIM directly to the rest of the system. It's a cheap decision. Which most manufactures have done unfortunately. [1]
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 7:55 AM, mike.valk@gmail.com mike.valk@gmail.com wrote:
2017-01-13 4:56 GMT+01:00 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:13 PM, Wolfgang Romey hier@wolfgangromey.de wrote:
I think my FairPhone 2, which I own for a month, is some kind of a modular smartphone.
it's not: they lied.
If they're intentions were honest it's not a lie. It's just being naive.
no, it's called lying. or, at best, deceptive marketing.
But all most parts are, user, replaceable. Which indeed does not make it modular, but serviceable.
correct.
if it was a truly modular design, the parts would snap or slide-lock apart in some fashion, there would be a hardware and software standard published, and the parts would be re-useble in future designs and they would have PUBLISHED SOME INDICATION OF THEIR EXISTENCE already.
so it's total horseshit and they know it. they're not stupid: they had enough people on their forums talk about dave hakkan's phonebloks concept for them to have heard the word "modular" enough times.
The biggest issue is that they've tied the modem and SIM directly to the rest of the system. It's a cheap decision. Which most manufactures have done unfortunately. [1]
i told them that it's easy to get hold of a cheap 3G modem containing a qualcomm MSM chipset. they ceased communication shortly afterwards.
l.
The fairphone is repairable not modular. Sneaky marketing on their part. They don't really seem interested in providing much more than that if you ask me.
On January 13, 2017 11:11:39 AM GMT+03:00, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 7:55 AM, mike.valk@gmail.com mike.valk@gmail.com wrote:
2017-01-13 4:56 GMT+01:00 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware:
https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:13 PM, Wolfgang Romey
wrote:
I think my FairPhone 2, which I own for a month, is some kind of a modular smartphone.
it's not: they lied.
If they're intentions were honest it's not a lie. It's just being
naive.
no, it's called lying. or, at best, deceptive marketing.
But all most parts are, user, replaceable. Which indeed does not make
it
modular, but serviceable.
correct.
if it was a truly modular design, the parts would snap or slide-lock apart in some fashion, there would be a hardware and software standard published, and the parts would be re-useble in future designs and they would have PUBLISHED SOME INDICATION OF THEIR EXISTENCE already.
so it's total horseshit and they know it. they're not stupid: they had enough people on their forums talk about dave hakkan's phonebloks concept for them to have heard the word "modular" enough times.
The biggest issue is that they've tied the modem and SIM directly to
the
rest of the system. It's a cheap decision. Which most manufactures
have done
unfortunately. [1]
i told them that it's easy to get hold of a cheap 3G modem containing a qualcomm MSM chipset. they ceased communication shortly afterwards.
l.
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
2017-01-13 9:11 GMT+01:00 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 7:55 AM, mike.valk@gmail.com mike.valk@gmail.com wrote:
2017-01-13 4:56 GMT+01:00 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:13 PM, Wolfgang Romey hier@wolfgangromey.de wrote:
I think my FairPhone 2, which I own for a month, is some kind of a modular smartphone.
it's not: they lied.
If they're intentions were honest it's not a lie. It's just being naive.
no, it's called lying. or, at best, deceptive marketing.
But all most parts are, user, replaceable. Which indeed does not make it modular, but serviceable.
correct.
if it was a truly modular design, the parts would snap or slide-lock apart in some fashion, there would be a hardware and software standard published, and the parts would be re-useble in future designs and they would have PUBLISHED SOME INDICATION OF THEIR EXISTENCE already.
so it's total horseshit and they know it. they're not stupid: they had enough people on their forums talk about dave hakkan's phonebloks concept for them to have heard the word "modular" enough times.
The biggest issue is that they've tied the modem and SIM directly to the rest of the system. It's a cheap decision. Which most manufactures have
done
unfortunately. [1]
i told them that it's easy to get hold of a cheap 3G modem containing a qualcomm MSM chipset. they ceased communication shortly afterwards.
You're being to brief here. I don't understand.
They are using a Qualcomm MSM (Snapdragon 801) chip for their "Fairphone 2".
Which in my opnion is both good and bad. Good: - Open source kernels without NDA - Opensource display drivers: Freedreno Bad: - Modem and SIM are remote programmable and have direct, unswitched, uncontrolled access to power and RAM. So very bad for your privacy. - Little effort in up-streaming their modifications to the Linux Kernel - No free unbricking software.
How bad for your privacy? One rogue cell transceiver (ca. 800$) and complete control over your phone forever.
But that is true for almost all phones.
l.
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 8:35 AM, mike.valk@gmail.com mike.valk@gmail.com wrote:
2017-01-13 9:11 GMT+01:00 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 7:55 AM, mike.valk@gmail.com mike.valk@gmail.com wrote:
2017-01-13 4:56 GMT+01:00 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:13 PM, Wolfgang Romey hier@wolfgangromey.de wrote:
I think my FairPhone 2, which I own for a month, is some kind of a modular smartphone.
it's not: they lied.
If they're intentions were honest it's not a lie. It's just being naive.
no, it's called lying. or, at best, deceptive marketing.
But all most parts are, user, replaceable. Which indeed does not make it modular, but serviceable.
correct.
if it was a truly modular design, the parts would snap or slide-lock apart in some fashion, there would be a hardware and software standard published, and the parts would be re-useble in future designs and they would have PUBLISHED SOME INDICATION OF THEIR EXISTENCE already.
so it's total horseshit and they know it. they're not stupid: they had enough people on their forums talk about dave hakkan's phonebloks concept for them to have heard the word "modular" enough times.
The biggest issue is that they've tied the modem and SIM directly to the rest of the system. It's a cheap decision. Which most manufactures have done unfortunately. [1]
i told them that it's easy to get hold of a cheap 3G modem containing a qualcomm MSM chipset. they ceased communication shortly afterwards.
You're being to brief here.
i remember the part number: SEW291. uses a MSM6290 or something. using that it is entirely isolated via a USB bus, audio is isolated behind a PWM interface, power may be provided (and CUT with a hard physical kill switch) so that the 3G modem may be enabled for example only for a few minutes when you are in a crowded area, exchange messages (send and receive), hard-cut the 3G modem again and disappear into the crowd.
if someone *really* wants to upload OTA firmware and arbitrary executables during that time, they're more than welcome to try - but it will do absolutely no good if the 3G modem module is POWERED DOWN.
this is the design that i intend to make with the hybridphone. http://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/hybrid_phone/
l.
arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk
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Wolfgang Romey