Hey Luke, hope you and your and fam are doing well ;) We haven't heard anything from you in a while, and would be great to have an status update or something similar :P
On Monday, March 29, 2021, Felix sucotronic@gmail.com wrote:
Hey Luke, hope you and your and fam are doing well ;) We haven't heard anything from you in a while, and would be great to have an status update or something similar :P
hiya Felix, yes doing well, very busy with LibreSOC tape-out is soon.
Chris received the other 90 of the Cards, for testing before the remaining 900 are done.
l.
On Monday, 29 March 2021 12:13:08 CEST Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
On Monday, March 29, 2021, Felix sucotronic@gmail.com wrote:
Hey Luke, hope you and your and fam are doing well ;) We haven't heard anything from you in a while, and would be great to have an status update or something similar :P
hiya Felix, yes doing well, very busy with LibreSOC tape-out is soon.
Chris received the other 90 of the Cards, for testing before the remaining 900 are done.
We'll certainly look forward to news of how well the testing went. :-)
Meanwhile, browsing old computer magazines, I came across this:
"This may well be the smallest Windows-class PC in the world. The Cardio 386, from S-MOS, is the size of a type 3 PCMCIA card, and is now available in a 486 configuration. The i/o pins are on the long edge, unlike a normal PC card. The cards are designed for embedded applications."
"Smallest ever PC fits on a card" Personal Computer World, July 1995
https://archive.org/details/PersonalComputerWorldMagazine/ PCW%20199507%20July%20Created%20From%20PCW%20Cover%20CD/page/n8/mode/1up
I guess that since PCMCIA cards are effectively credit card size, the PCMCIA connection is tenuous, but perhaps there was some manufacturing capability available for making something similar to a PCMCIA card that led them in that direction.
Paul
Thanks for info! Wish Chris will deliver good news about testing and all can move along nicely (in this weird crazy world :P).
El 29/3/21 a las 12:13, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton escribió:
On Monday, March 29, 2021, Felix sucotronic@gmail.com wrote:
Hey Luke, hope you and your and fam are doing well ;) We haven't heard anything from you in a while, and would be great to have an status update or something similar :P
hiya Felix, yes doing well, very busy with LibreSOC tape-out is soon.
Chris received the other 90 of the Cards, for testing before the remaining 900 are done.
l.
As alway, hope you are doing well, but I can't avoid to ask :P Any follow up?
On Wed, Apr 7, 2021 at 9:22 AM Felix sucotronic@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks for info! Wish Chris will deliver good news about testing and all can move along nicely (in this weird crazy world :P).
El 29/3/21 a las 12:13, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton escribió:
On Monday, March 29, 2021, Felix sucotronic@gmail.com wrote:
Hey Luke, hope you and your and fam are doing well ;) We haven't heard anything from you in a while, and would be great to have an status
update
or something similar :P
hiya Felix, yes doing well, very busy with LibreSOC tape-out is soon.
Chris received the other 90 of the Cards, for testing before the
remaining
900 are done.
l.
On Tuesday, 21 December 2021 09:27:21 CET Felix wrote:
As alway, hope you are doing well, but I can't avoid to ask :P Any follow up?
Coming up on a year after this last message and two years after the last Crowd Supply update, I wonder if there is any news at all. I also notice that ThinkPenguin no longer does business with anyone based in Europe supposedly due to GDPR legislation.
Apparently, asking Crowd Supply about project status tends to elicit a response directing inquirers to the project creators. One is too busy and directs us to the other who is incommunicative. It all seems like a lost opportunity, really.
Paul
Yes sadly this is the only Crowd Supply project I have contributed to that has not delivered. I had great hopes but alas I fear I am disappointed. Thanks Peter Carlson
On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 1:52 PM Paul Boddie paul@boddie.org.uk wrote:
On Tuesday, 21 December 2021 09:27:21 CET Felix wrote:
As alway, hope you are doing well, but I can't avoid to ask :P Any follow up?
Coming up on a year after this last message and two years after the last Crowd Supply update, I wonder if there is any news at all. I also notice that ThinkPenguin no longer does business with anyone based in Europe supposedly due to GDPR legislation.
Apparently, asking Crowd Supply about project status tends to elicit a response directing inquirers to the project creators. One is too busy and directs us to the other who is incommunicative. It all seems like a lost opportunity, really.
Paul
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
On Monday, November 21, 2022, Peter Carlson petercarlson79@gmail.com wrote:
Yes sadly this is the only Crowd Supply project I have contributed to that has not delivered.
Peter, respectfully, this is not a productive or useful response (or attitude). this has always been a community project and it is therefore down to YOU to say, instead of "you are a moron for failing to deliver", instead to say "HOW CAN I HELP"
question: would you like to help?
when i receive a response "yes" (publicly, here, so that it is clear to everyone that i have not made any assumptions) i will then follow up with some SUGGESTIONs on ways that you can HELP, and you are then free and clear to DECIDE FOR YOURSELF if you wish to follow the suggested course of action.
ultimately this project lives or dies based on action that *you* decide to take.
assuming that i can and will do everything and then blaming me when nothing happens is worse than "not ok", it is deeply disrespectful and making me extremely angry given how much *i* have done. for you.
if anyone else would like to similarly HELP then please respond to this message (publicly)
l.
Well you are a little touchy on this and you read way more into my comment than I actually said. I shall endeavour to not let your sensitivity affect my state of mind.
How can I help? (if I can help) Thanks Peter Carlson
On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 3:46 PM Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
On Monday, November 21, 2022, Peter Carlson petercarlson79@gmail.com wrote:
Yes sadly this is the only Crowd Supply project I have contributed to
that
has not delivered.
Peter, respectfully, this is not a productive or useful response (or attitude). this has always been a community project and it is therefore down to YOU to say, instead of "you are a moron for failing to deliver", instead to say "HOW CAN I HELP"
question: would you like to help?
when i receive a response "yes" (publicly, here, so that it is clear to everyone that i have not made any assumptions) i will then follow up with some SUGGESTIONs on ways that you can HELP, and you are then free and clear to DECIDE FOR YOURSELF if you wish to follow the suggested course of action.
ultimately this project lives or dies based on action that *you* decide to take.
assuming that i can and will do everything and then blaming me when nothing happens is worse than "not ok", it is deeply disrespectful and making me extremely angry given how much *i* have done. for you.
if anyone else would like to similarly HELP then please respond to this message (publicly)
l.
--
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 _______________________________________________ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
On Monday, November 21, 2022, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote: there is even two-way communication (even though it is evasion)
can you please try again, this time VERY SPECIFICALLY and ONLY asking "where are the 95 Cards sent to your premises, Mar 2020"
correction, sorry, that's March 2021, and it was 93 Cards. the attached screenshot from Mike contains the FEDEX Tracking number.
l.
On Monday, November 21, 2022, Peter Carlson petercarlson79@gmail.com wrote:
Well you are a little touchy on this and you read way more into my comment than I actually said.
sorry. i am in some considerable distress. the complete lack of response from Chris to *multiple* people has been shocking and confusing to me.
I shall endeavour to not let your sensitivity affect my state of mind.
How can I help? (if I can help)
please reach out to Chris, we need to find out where those 93 Cards are. even if they have been stolen from him, we need to know.
i cannot be the one to do that, because if he ignores 25 messages he will ignore 26.
even Joshua cannot help because he has ignored Joshua's phone calls.
the current plan is to slowly ramp up the pressure (in a RESPECTFUL but very direct way), culminating in requesting all 2,500 backers to contact him requesting a status on the location and whereabouts of those 93 Cards.
the problem is that he has not even responded to requests for someone to pick them up, which leads me to suspect that he is hiding something, such as "they've been stolen".
my message just now shows the last communication from Chris, confirming that he was engaged. he carried out a test of ONE of the Cards (which was successful), but then some time around May 2021, just after i had transferred the donated 0.8 BTC to him (back when that was worth USD 40,000), he failed to respond from that point onwards to all and any communication.
l.
I have sent the requested specific message to Thinkpenquin support request page.
On Mon, Nov 21, 2022, 4:18 PM Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
On Monday, November 21, 2022, Peter Carlson petercarlson79@gmail.com wrote:
Well you are a little touchy on this and you read way more into my
comment
than I actually said.
sorry. i am in some considerable distress. the complete lack of response from Chris to *multiple* people has been shocking and confusing to me.
I shall endeavour to not let your sensitivity affect my state of mind.
How can I help? (if I can help)
please reach out to Chris, we need to find out where those 93 Cards are. even if they have been stolen from him, we need to know.
i cannot be the one to do that, because if he ignores 25 messages he will ignore 26.
even Joshua cannot help because he has ignored Joshua's phone calls.
the current plan is to slowly ramp up the pressure (in a RESPECTFUL but very direct way), culminating in requesting all 2,500 backers to contact him requesting a status on the location and whereabouts of those 93 Cards.
the problem is that he has not even responded to requests for someone to pick them up, which leads me to suspect that he is hiding something, such as "they've been stolen".
my message just now shows the last communication from Chris, confirming that he was engaged. he carried out a test of ONE of the Cards (which was successful), but then some time around May 2021, just after i had transferred the donated 0.8 BTC to him (back when that was worth USD 40,000), he failed to respond from that point onwards to all and any communication.
l.
--
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 _______________________________________________ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
On Monday, November 21, 2022, Peter Carlson petercarlson79@gmail.com wrote:
I have sent the requested specific message to Thinkpenquin support request page.
thank you, i genuinely appreciate that. the more people who do it, the more that Chris will get the message.
Paul: it really is very important for you to do the same, because in over 18 months you are literally the only person ever to have received a response of any kind.
if this process fails then we escalate to the Update that I have kept in reserve, requesting all 2,500 backers to contact Chris and ask where the 93 Cards are, as well as publish the requests on Social Media.
l.
My thoughts as an outside observer:
It seems clear that the project is out of money and the product isn't ready. There does not seem to be any significant incompetence, ill intent, or malice at fault here. The project seems to have succumbed to the difficulties inherent in producing a niche device at small scale with minimal funding.
With that said, I think it would be a mistake to focus on what happened to ~100 missing boards. Identifying persons or processes involved with failed production runs is not going to help move the project forward. That is an issue for post-mortem later.
My naive opinion on the best path forward would be to publish all schematics, instructions, documentation, bills of materials, etc as thoroughly as possible then consider the project effectively dead with the hope that community effort can eventually revive it and remove the dependence on rare/vintage/legacy parts & components.
-Sam
On Monday, November 21, 2022, Sam Huntress samhuntress@gmail.com wrote:
My thoughts as an outside observer:
It seems clear that the project is out of money and the product isn't
ready.
this is not correct.
there is just enough to deliver.
there is *not* enough for contingency nor to pay anyone, particularly that Chris appears on first glance to have embezzled 0.8 BTC (worth USD 40,000 at the time). given that he sponsored me to *50* thousand USD this can, to some extent, be "overlooked".
in addition there is SIGNIFICANT funds LOCKED UP in Crowd Supply that can ONLY BE UNLOCKED by BEGINNING SHIPPING.
the plan was to send out the 93 Cards, at which point the funds could have been unlocked.
Chris failing to respond has basically terminated that option, setting the project back nearly 2 years.
please can i therefore request that you not make false statements instead to ASK what is ACTUALLY happening. if i get beyond a certain threshold of people ignoring this simple request i will have no choice but to place the list into Moderation Mode, review every single message and communicate prvately with people, requesting that they rewrite and remove any damaging speculative and false statements.
i will not do that with good grace at all because it is a completely unacceptable burden that i should in absolutely no way have to tolerate.
i therefore expect AND DEMAND that everyone refrain from making false statements, instead to be respectful and ASK QUESTIONS.
l.
On Monday, 21 November 2022 19:21:41 CET Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
Paul: it really is very important for you to do the same, because in over 18 months you are literally the only person ever to have received a response of any kind.
I have never communicated with Christopher Waid. I think I made that pretty clear in my previous messages, so I don't know why you believe otherwise. Maybe quote me the text that isn't clear so that I will know to avoid such misunderstandings in the future. For the record, I only ever sent a general question to Crowd Supply asking what their policy was on failing projects.
And perhaps, instead of chasing up Mr Waid, with whom I have no contractual relationship, Crowd Supply might exercise their expertise in ensuring that this project will not fail, given that they are so proud of their perfect record and of "carefully vetting and working with our projects".
Paul
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 9:02 PM Paul Boddie paul@boddie.org.uk wrote:
On Monday, 21 November 2022 19:21:41 CET Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
Paul: it really is very important for you to do the same, because in over 18 months you are literally the only person ever to have received a response of any kind.
I have never communicated with Christopher Waid.
ah as Thinkpenguin is only 2.5 people, one of whom does not answer the support email, the probability that you were answered *by* Christopher Waid (without realising it) is very high. apologies for not making that clear.
I think I made that pretty clear in my previous messages,
Thinkpenguin is not a sole trader, but there is only Bob (internal-only technical R&D), Chris (main frontline support), and *one* part-time helper.
so I don't know why you believe otherwise.
it's a reasonable (but unclear) logical deduction.
Maybe quote me the text that isn't clear so that I will know to avoid such misunderstandings in the future. For the record, I only ever sent a general question to Crowd Supply asking what their policy was on failing projects.
hang on - you sent a message to *Crowdsupply* and got a response from *Crowdsupply* saying "contact the project creators directly"?
that being the case, that was the correct response.
And perhaps, instead of chasing up Mr Waid, with whom I have no contractual relationship, Crowd Supply might exercise their expertise in ensuring that this project will not fail, given that they are so proud of their perfect record and of "carefully vetting and working with our projects".
it's just not their responsibility to do that.
it turns out that Joshua has in fact gone out of his way to help, at no obligation.
Joshua has - *PERSONALLY* - offered to carry out the testing of all Cards, which was what i transferred 0.8 BTC to Chris for him to do [which Chris appears, as best can be discerned based on current behaviour and complete lack of responses, to have embezzled].
l.
On Monday, 21 November 2022 22:27:48 CET Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 9:02 PM Paul Boddie paul@boddie.org.uk wrote:
I have never communicated with Christopher Waid.
ah as Thinkpenguin is only 2.5 people, one of whom does not answer the support email, the probability that you were answered *by* Christopher Waid (without realising it) is very high. apologies for not making that clear.
I have never communicated with ThinkPenguin, either. My remarks about ThinkPenguin's policy on commerce with the European Union, or lack thereof, was purely based on looking at their Web site.
I think I made that pretty clear in my previous messages,
Thinkpenguin is not a sole trader, but there is only Bob (internal-only technical R&D), Chris (main frontline support), and *one* part-time helper.
so I don't know why you believe otherwise.
it's a reasonable (but unclear) logical deduction.
Well, I haven't communicated with Christopher Waid or ThinkPenguin.
Maybe quote me the text that isn't clear so that I will know to avoid such misunderstandings in the future. For the record, I only ever sent a general question to Crowd Supply asking what their policy was on failing projects.
hang on - you sent a message to *Crowdsupply* and got a response from *Crowdsupply* saying "contact the project creators directly"?
that being the case, that was the correct response.
Yes, I got a message from Crowd Supply after having sent a message to Crowd Supply, although my own message was not about this project specifically, but I know that messages that were about this project have been met with "contact the project creators directly".
And perhaps, instead of chasing up Mr Waid, with whom I have no contractual relationship, Crowd Supply might exercise their expertise in ensuring that this project will not fail, given that they are so proud of their perfect record and of "carefully vetting and working with our projects".
it's just not their responsibility to do that.
it turns out that Joshua has in fact gone out of his way to help, at no obligation.
You're saying that Crowd Supply has no obligation to those who used its platform to fund projects. If so, that makes them barely any better than Kickstarter or Indiegogo and rather puts a different light on the various claims made about their capabilities and reputation.
Whether they genuinely believe they have no obligation or not, I would recommend caution on their part: people have successfully sought legal recourse for failed crowdfunding efforts in the past, regardless of what the small print claimed.
Joshua has - *PERSONALLY* - offered to carry out the testing of all Cards, which was what i transferred 0.8 BTC to Chris for him to do [which Chris appears, as best can be discerned based on current behaviour and complete lack of responses, to have embezzled].
It is kind of anyone to go beyond any actual obligation they have, but all of this sounds like a dispute between people on the other side of the fence. So, although you have given us a status update in a way, I think that the only way forward is for those involved to resolve the dispute amongst themselves, not to drag in 1000 or so other people to do it for them.
Paul
Den 21.11.2022 kl. 22.27 skrev Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton:
Thinkpenguin is not a sole trader, but there is only Bob (internal-only technical R&D), Chris (main frontline support), and*one* part-time helper.
Does anyone have a name of that third person working part-time at Thinkpenquin?
Maybe i am way off but I think I used to know a guy who worked for or was sponsered by Thinkpenquin.
On Thursday, November 24, 2022, Joakim Seeberg via arm-netbook < arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk> wrote:
Does anyone have a name of that third person working part-time at
Thinkpenquin?
they usually answer the phone.
Maybe i am way off but I think I used to know a guy who worked for or was
sponsered by Thinkpenquin.
yes. josh. he's the one who i asked if he could drop by, to pick up the Cards. sonce he said "yes" i have not heard back from him since.
l.
Maybe you can find something here : https://social.bobcall.me/@mr_penguin
I found this photo with maybe Chris maybe around the 25th june 2022 : https://social.bobcall.me/@mr_penguin/108535179520813746
I wonder if and if yes, how should I talk on fediverse to find these cards / help Chris to give any answer...
Le 24 novembre 2022 21:42:14 GMT+01:00, Joakim Seeberg via arm-netbook arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk a écrit :
Den 21.11.2022 kl. 22.27 skrev Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton:
Thinkpenguin is not a sole trader, but there is only Bob (internal-only technical R&D), Chris (main frontline support), and*one* part-time helper.
Does anyone have a name of that third person working part-time at Thinkpenquin?
Maybe i am way off but I think I used to know a guy who worked for or was sponsered by Thinkpenquin.
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 9:47 PM Franck Sinimalé franck@sinimale.fr wrote:
I wonder if and if yes, how should I talk on fediverse to find these cards / help Chris to give any answer...
interesting. it's a mastodon instance, so normally (quickest expedient way) you would register on social.bobcall.me, but it is "closed for new registrations". the other way is to satisfy *any one* of the (many) conditions shown here: https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/14017#issuecomment-642177335
l.
You don't need to sign up on that instance to send him a message. Any server on the fediverse can send a message. I'll be doing so as well.
If anyone has Fediverse or Mastodon questions, I'll be happy to answer off-list.
--murph
----- Original message ----- From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net To: Eco-Conscious Computing arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] Status update Date: Thursday, November 24, 2022 17:58
On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 9:47 PM Franck Sinimalé franck@sinimale.fr wrote:
I wonder if and if yes, how should I talk on fediverse to find these cards / help Chris to give any answer...
interesting. it's a mastodon instance, so normally (quickest expedient way) you would register on social.bobcall.me, but it is "closed for new registrations". the other way is to satisfy *any one* of the (many) conditions shown here: https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/14017#issuecomment-642177335
l.
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On Mon, 21 Nov 2022 22:02:10 +0100 Paul Boddie paul@boddie.org.uk wrote:
And perhaps, instead of chasing up Mr Waid, with whom I have no contractual relationship, Crowd Supply might exercise their expertise in ensuring that this project will not fail, given that they are so proud of their perfect record and of "carefully vetting and working with our projects".
I agree with this.
This is kind of where I was going with my mention of "legal action". If CrowdSupply is marketing themselves as a better alternative to the "donate to a project and maybe you'll get something" that Kickstarter and others seem to be known for, then I think we could hold them to that. If they're trying to position themselves as a professionally-run business-transaction version of crowd-funding, then as a backer, my business relationship is with CrowdSupply, and it seems reasonable that I should be able to expect them to provide/arrange remedies, and deal with the other parties (such as ThinkPenguin) as subcontractors who made promises to CrowdSupply.
If this gets to the point of a Social Media publicity/shaming campaign, I would suggest that pointing the bad publicity at Crowd Supply is worth considering as an alternative/complement to directing bad publicity at ThinkPenguin.
folks the dscussion is getting completely out of hand and into the realm of speculation about matters for which none of us have any responsibility or authority.
if the speculation about what Crowdsupply or Mouser should or should not do i will place this entire list into Emergency Moderation.
please cease and desist speculation and making unsubstantiated claims and statements about Crowdsupply and Mouser.
l.
On Monday, November 21, 2022, Paul Boddie paul@boddie.org.uk wrote: due to GDPR legislation.
Apparently, asking Crowd Supply about project status tends to elicit a response directing inquirers to the project creators.
Chris *is* one of the project creators.
this response is evasion by Chris.
he is in possession of 95 Cards and he is evading responding as to their whereabouts.
you need to *specifically* request him to answer solely and specifically "where are the 95 Cards sent to him in March 2020".
please PUBLISH the response, in full, here on the mailing list. we need a public audit trail.
One is too busy and directs us to the other who is incommunicative.
wrong.
i have been refraining from speaking publicly in order to protect Chris, who sponsored me with USD 50,000 of his company's money.
now that *you* have raised this publicly (not me) i can respond and correct mistakes that you make above.
over the past 2 years over 40 email messages have been sent, even Joshua Lifton has requested a phone call to be returned. multiple people have raised tickets on their support system.
in 20+ months we have not received ONE response.
you are literally the first person to have even confirmed that there is even two-way communication (even though it is evasion)
can you please try again, this time VERY SPECIFICALLY and ONLY asking "where are the 95 Cards sent to your premises, Mar 2020" nothing more. it is critically important NOT to ask anything else
the next logical followup question can then be sent but only AFTER that first question has been answered.
if you are unsuccessful (ignored like everyone else) then at that point i will have no other alternative but to publish the Crowdsupply Update that i have INTENTIONALLY not been publishing which informs 2,500 people that, effectively, Chris, despite being a project creator and financial sponsor, is in possession of 95 Production Cards that are legally the property of 95 of the Backers, and that he is refusing to say where they are currently located. the reasons why i have refrained from publishing such an update should be pretty damn obvious.
thanks Paul.
l.
On Monday, 21 November 2022 16:32:51 CET Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
On Monday, November 21, 2022, Paul Boddie paul@boddie.org.uk wrote:
Apparently, asking Crowd Supply about project status tends to elicit a response directing inquirers to the project creators.
Chris *is* one of the project creators.
Indeed, which is why I noted that Crowd Supply direct inquirers to you and Chris. Admittedly, you are the only one who seems to read this list and reply to messages. As far as I am concerned, this list is the venue to contact the project creators.
this response is evasion by Chris.
he is in possession of 95 Cards and he is evading responding as to their whereabouts.
you need to *specifically* request him to answer solely and specifically "where are the 95 Cards sent to him in March 2020".
please PUBLISH the response, in full, here on the mailing list. we need a public audit trail.
Sorry, but why do I need to chase him up? The people who need to do that are Crowd Supply, instead of claiming that every project is either a success or a success still waiting to happen, which was effectively their response to me when I asked them what they do when projects are failing. Or maybe it is Mouser who have to get involved since they acquired Crowd Supply.
One is too busy and directs us to the other who is incommunicative.
wrong.
Well, that's what you've been doing. See above.
i have been refraining from speaking publicly in order to protect Chris, who sponsored me with USD 50,000 of his company's money.
now that *you* have raised this publicly (not me) i can respond and correct mistakes that you make above.
over the past 2 years over 40 email messages have been sent, even Joshua Lifton has requested a phone call to be returned. multiple people have raised tickets on their support system.
in 20+ months we have not received ONE response.
you are literally the first person to have even confirmed that there is even two-way communication (even though it is evasion)
That is two-way communication with Crowd Supply not Chris. As in: people ask Crowd Supply about the status of this project and Crowd Supply tell the inquirer to talk to you and Chris about it. So, people post to this list and get told to ask Chris where the cards are. It is as if Crowd Supply had nothing to do with taking people's money.
can you please try again, this time VERY SPECIFICALLY and ONLY asking "where are the 95 Cards sent to your premises, Mar 2020" nothing more. it is critically important NOT to ask anything else
the next logical followup question can then be sent but only AFTER that first question has been answered.
if you are unsuccessful (ignored like everyone else) then at that point i will have no other alternative but to publish the Crowdsupply Update that i have INTENTIONALLY not been publishing which informs 2,500 people that, effectively, Chris, despite being a project creator and financial sponsor, is in possession of 95 Production Cards that are legally the property of 95 of the Backers, and that he is refusing to say where they are currently located. the reasons why i have refrained from publishing such an update should be pretty damn obvious.
We all know that he has 95 cards because you posted an update saying so two years ago. Sending a mail to him that he probably will not respond to isn't going to help. Besides, the backers have an agreement with Crowd Supply, who in turn have agreements with you and Chris, and so it is up to Crowd Supply to sort this out.
So, maybe it might be more productive for people to ask Crowd Supply what they are doing about this situation. If everyone gets fobbed off with the success- in-waiting, "contact the creators" canned response, maybe it is worth escalating to a more senior level in Mouser. Of course, Mouser might know full well what they bought and don't care, either.
There are other projects on Crowd Supply that supposedly delivered, but where the community ended up picking up the pieces (thinking of the GnuBee devices that receive support via a Google Group). Claims such as "every project that has ever received funds through Crowd Supply has delivered to their backers (or is on track to do so)" [*] look pretty flimsy from the perspective of quite a few backers, I would say.
From my own perspective, one of the most disappointing aspects of all of this
is that an opportunity has been squandered. Looking back six or seven years ago, there was a lot of enthusiasm for a project that had the potential to really change things, but all that enthusiasm seems to have evaporated along with any kind of meaningful discourse. It seems like there was a performance taking place, but the show is now over.
Paul
On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 4:33 PM Paul Boddie paul@boddie.org.uk wrote:
Sorry, but why do I need to chase him up? The people who need to do that are Crowd Supply,
because Chris is also evading answering and failing to respond to the *CEO* of Crowdsupply, Joshua Lifton.
the method that is of last resort is now for the *backers* - all of them - to publicly embarrass and shame Chris in providing a direct answer to a direct question:
"where are the 93 Cards sent to you in March 2021"
basically, Chris is only going to respond now if there is a direct threat to his business revenue, and if it is PUBLICLY demonstrated - through public pressure - that he is failing to respond, then his business revenue will be adversely affected, and consequently the fear of that loss will be what finally motivates him to respond, over-riding whatever fear and concern is currently *de*-motivating him and causing him to be evasive.
as that was the strategy of last resort, you can understand why i did not wish to pursue it, and it is only when you wrote (publicly) with mistakes that needed correcting that i could even raise the topic.
everything up to now has been entirely private - there has LITERALLY been one email every 2-3 weeks from a different backer, each time, and i have - PRIVATELY - asked them to contact Chris and ask where the Cards are.
in addition both Joshua, Kelly, and myself, *and even Mike* from the China Factory, have *ALL* written to him or telephoned him, and not received one single response.
this is not something that Crowdsupply can fix.
this is not something that Mouser can fix.
this is something that can only be fixed through 2,500 Backers getting on Chris of Thinkpenguin's case and overwhelming him until he responds truthfully where the hell those Cards are.
l.
On 2022-11-21 8:43 a.m., Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 4:33 PM Paul Boddie paul@boddie.org.uk wrote:
Sorry, but why do I need to chase him up? The people who need to do that are Crowd Supply,
because Chris is also evading answering and failing to respond to the *CEO* of Crowdsupply, Joshua Lifton.
the method that is of last resort is now for the *backers* - all of them - to publicly embarrass and shame Chris in providing a direct answer to a direct question:
"where are the 93 Cards sent to you in March 2021"
There were ~1000+ cards ordered on Crowd Supply. Perhaps we should assume that Chris and those 93 cards are gone and focus on what we can do in their absence? The success of this project, by necessity, cannot rely solely on 93 cards and one person to return from AWOL status.
Let's theorize, if Chris were to respond and provide the 93 cards, what is the roadmap for the project from there. What of this roadmap can we complete without Chris and his 93 cars?
On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 4:48 PM Adam Van Ymeren adam@vany.ca wrote:
"where are the 93 Cards sent to you in March 2021"There were ~1000+ cards ordered on Crowd Supply. Perhaps we should assume that Chris and those 93 cards are gone and focus on what we can do in their absence?
unfortunately there are more backers than there are Cards, and there are not enough components left to replace those missing Cards, and not enough money to *pay* for components, to replace the components necessary to replace those missing Cards.
it is absolutely critically essential to fulfilling the promises made that those Cards be tracked down and extracted by any means necessary, from whoever currently possesses them.
l.
On 2022-11-21 8:56 a.m., Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 4:48 PM Adam Van Ymerenadam@vany.ca wrote:
"where are the 93 Cards sent to you in March 2021"There were ~1000+ cards ordered on Crowd Supply. Perhaps we should assume that Chris and those 93 cards are gone and focus on what we can do in their absence?
unfortunately there are more backers than there are Cards, and there are not enough components left to replace those missing Cards, and not enough money to *pay* for components, to replace the components necessary to replace those missing Cards.
it is absolutely critically essential to fulfilling the promises made that those Cards be tracked down and extracted by any means necessary, from whoever currently possesses them.
Other options are finding a way to raise money to cover the lost cards, and/or finding volunteers to forfeit their cards for the success of the project
The 93 missing cards doesn't prevent us from shipping the other cards does it?
Shipping cards builds momentum and interest. There are (were?) a lot of passionate supporters of this project. People know that crowd funded projects have risk.
Shipping 90% of cards late seems like a better result than shipping 0% of cards because 10% of them went missing.
If we ship cards and start building momentum again it's possible that we build enough interest to sell more cards at a slight markup which can be used to replace the missing pieces.
On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 5:07 PM Adam Van Ymeren adam@vany.ca wrote:
Other options are finding a way to raise money to cover the lost cards,
you misunderstand: some of the components are *no longer available*. they cannot be manufactured without a complete redesign.
The 93 missing cards doesn't prevent us from shipping the other cards does it?
they have not been manufactured yet. Mike is arranging that.
l.
On 2022-11-21 9:12 a.m., Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 5:07 PM Adam Van Ymerenadam@vany.ca wrote:
Other options are finding a way to raise money to cover the lost cards,
you misunderstand: some of the components are *no longer available*. they cannot be manufactured without a complete redesign.
Oh right sorry. That being said, building community momentum/interest could result in an interested community member doing the necessary design work. Low probability but it's possible.
The 93 missing cards doesn't prevent us from shipping the other cards does it?
they have not been manufactured yet. Mike is arranging that.
Is this happening in parallel to the current outreach to Chris?
On Monday, November 21, 2022, Adam Van Ymeren adam@vany.ca wrote:
Oh right sorry. That being said, building community momentum/interest
could result
in an interested community member doing the necessary design work. Low
probability
but it's possible.
good suggestion. given the amount of work involved i rate it as extremely low, but this does not eliminate it entirely. NLnet or other EU Grant funding would help here.
Is this happening in parallel to the current outreach to Chris?
yes.
l.
On Mon, 21 Nov 2022 16:43:21 +0000 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
this is not something that Crowdsupply can fix.
this is not something that Mouser can fix.
I notice you did not say "There is nothing that Crowdsupply/Mouser can do".
I suspect there is something they can do--something significant, and it may be about time: They can take legal action.
I don't know if contracts were ever drawn up/signed at the beginning of this project; if so, they'd probably have a very strong basis for legal action. If there were no contracts, there's probably still something that lawyers could do.
And I imagine that Crowdsupply/Mouser is significantly more able to hire lawyers (or have them already) than you are.
Or maybe this is already happening.
On Monday, November 21, 2022, Brian Sammon < arm-netbook@brisammon.fastmail.fm> wrote:
On Mon, 21 Nov 2022 16:43:21 +0000 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
this is not something that Crowdsupply can fix.
this is not something that Mouser can fix.
I notice you did not say "There is nothing that Crowdsupply/Mouser can
do".
yes, because i am completely overwhelmed and under pressure, which i am not in the least bit happy about, i am extremely pissed off at having my time wasted dealing with this.
UNPAID.
and not receiving any financial compensation or renumeration, because there isn't any available.
i did not answer because i had neither the time nor inclination (without financial renumeration) to investigate or speculate.
l.
in addition there is SIGNIFICANT funds LOCKED UP in Crowd Supply that can ONLY BE UNLOCKED by BEGINNING SHIPPING.
[Conditionally Available Funds (Conditions not yet met)] is a subset of [Money the Project Does Not Have]
I'm willing to accept the assessment that tracking down those 93 cards will be cheaper than producing the next however-many-are-required-to-meet-the-crowd-supply-condtion cards but that does not change the fact that currently the project is out of money.
On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 2:39 PM Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
On Monday, November 21, 2022, Brian Sammon < arm-netbook@brisammon.fastmail.fm> wrote:
On Mon, 21 Nov 2022 16:43:21 +0000 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
this is not something that Crowdsupply can fix.
this is not something that Mouser can fix.
I notice you did not say "There is nothing that Crowdsupply/Mouser can
do".
yes, because i am completely overwhelmed and under pressure, which i am not in the least bit happy about, i am extremely pissed off at having my time wasted dealing with this.
UNPAID.
and not receiving any financial compensation or renumeration, because there isn't any available.
i did not answer because i had neither the time nor inclination (without financial renumeration) to investigate or speculate.
l.
--
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paul, apologies, i misread. let me start again.
On Monday, November 21, 2022, Paul Boddie paul@boddie.org.uk wrote:
Apparently, asking Crowd Supply
asking *Crowdsupply* would result in redirection because they too are awaiting delivery. they are responsible for *delivery* questions and order questions.
about project status tends to elicit a response directing inquirers to the project creators.
yes this would be perfectly reasonable and you should not really have asked them (it wastes their time) because by definition of their role and responsibility, as a *Delivery* agent, you can easily work out their response even before the question is asked of them.
One is too busy and directs us to the other who is incommunicative.
this is the bit that is ambiguous and caused me to misunderstand. whom is "one" and whom is "the other" when there are *three* potential parties involved?
l.
On Monday, 21 November 2022 22:38:48 CET Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
paul, apologies, i misread. let me start again.
On Monday, November 21, 2022, Paul Boddie paul@boddie.org.uk wrote:
One is too busy and directs us to the other who is incommunicative.
this is the bit that is ambiguous and caused me to misunderstand. whom is "one" and whom is "the other" when there are *three* potential parties involved?
OK, when someone is asked by Crowd Supply to contact the creators directly, you (as creator #1) are evidently too busy and have directed us to Christopher Waid (as creator #2) who is incommunicative.
Personally, I find it all a bit perplexing. Although I know that you brought Mr Waid into the effort with there apparently being some particular interest from him in the laptop, I would imagine that most people following this project would have expected you to bring the effort to completion yourself: your own capabilities and plans being much more of a known quantity than those of someone that few of us have had any dealings with.
Paul
On Monday, November 21, 2022, Paul Boddie paul@boddie.org.uk wrote:
On Monday, 21 November 2022 22:38:48 CET Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
wrote:
paul, apologies, i misread. let me start again.
On Monday, November 21, 2022, Paul Boddie paul@boddie.org.uk wrote:
One is too busy and directs us to the other who is incommunicative.
this is the bit that is ambiguous and caused me to misunderstand. whom is "one" and whom is "the other" when there are *three* potential parties involved?
OK, when someone is asked by Crowd Supply to contact the creators
directly,
you (as creator #1) are evidently too busy
no, this is wrong. or, factually misleading. the 93 Cards are at *Think Penguin's premises*.
i have spent 18 months persistently attempting communication to recover those Cards.
we are WAITING for the results of TESTING of those Cards.
proceeding with the manufacture of the remaining 800 is a HUGE RISK without information on the state of the 93 that are WITHELD by Chris of Think Penguin.
i am waiting JUST AS MUCH AS YOU ARE.
there is no further action i can take beyond repeating that the course of action is for ALL OF YOU to CONTACT CHRISTOPHER WAID.
and have directed us to Christopher Waid (as creator #2) who is incommunicative.
i repeat.
once again.
public pressure from multiple sources and backers is our last best chance.
it will require multiple people, systematically, and it will require those people to put the resultant conversations onto publicly-accessible Social Media, especially forums where Thinkpenguin customers are likely to be present in some numbers.
this type of action will cause Chris to lose business if he does not respond to paying customers, which should be sufficient to finally get him to respond.
it is uncomfortable, but tough: i cannot protect him any longer from the consequences of his failure to communicate.
Personally, I find it all a bit perplexing. Although I know that you
brought
Mr Waid into the effort with there apparently being some particular
interest
from him in the laptop, I would imagine that most people following this project would have expected you to bring the effort to completion
yourself:
fuck no, you must be absolutely kidding. you cannot possibly be serious.
if you genuinely believe that then you cannot possibly have been reading the updates where i specifically request assistance and remind everyone systematically that this is and always has been a COMMUNITY project where it lives and dies on what people help out with.
examples include writing documentation, wiki pages, developing linux kernel support, u-boot patches and getting OS Support up and running. none of which i can possibly be expected to handle alone.
i also go to some lengths to repeatedly state that as a Certification Mark Holder i am NOT PERMITTED TO SELL PRODUCT because it is a Conflict of Interest with the role and responsibility of a Certification Mark Holder.
once again, from the top:
it places the ENTIRE PROJECT AT RISK to proceed with the manufacture of the remaining Cards without first testing the 93 that are being witheld by Chrstopher Waid at his business premises.
Mike needs to know if the yield was 95% or if it was 5%.
we have no idea.
91 of those Cards could be FAULTY and CHRIS HAS NOT TOLD US
without knowing what the fault might be, Mike is risking proceeding to manufacture A THOUSAND FAULTY UNRECOVERABLE CARDS
at which point this project will have no other choice but to be declared terminated.
so will you please
will you please
for god's sake
stop arguing
stop speculating
and please
please
LISTEN
and HELP
by CONTACTING CHRISTOPHER WAID
to ask him very simply: "where are the 93 Cards"
so that we can send a Courier round to recover them, get them to Portland, so that Joshua can test them.
l.
On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 11:01:25PM +0000, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
On Monday, November 21, 2022, Paul Boddie paul@boddie.org.uk wrote:
On Monday, 21 November 2022 22:38:48 CET Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
wrote:
paul, apologies, i misread. let me start again.
On Monday, November 21, 2022, Paul Boddie paul@boddie.org.uk wrote:
One is too busy and directs us to the other who is incommunicative.
this is the bit that is ambiguous and caused me to misunderstand. whom is "one" and whom is "the other" when there are *three* potential parties involved?
OK, when someone is asked by Crowd Supply to contact the creators
directly,
you (as creator #1) are evidently too busy
no, this is wrong. or, factually misleading. the 93 Cards are at *Think Penguin's premises*.
i have spent 18 months persistently attempting communication to recover those Cards.
we are WAITING for the results of TESTING of those Cards.
proceeding with the manufacture of the remaining 800 is a HUGE RISK without information on the state of the 93 that are WITHELD by Chris of Think Penguin.
i am waiting JUST AS MUCH AS YOU ARE.
there is no further action i can take beyond repeating that the course of action is for ALL OF YOU to CONTACT CHRISTOPHER WAID.
and have directed us to Christopher Waid (as creator #2) who is incommunicative.
i repeat.
once again.
public pressure from multiple sources and backers is our last best chance.
it will require multiple people, systematically, and it will require those people to put the resultant conversations onto publicly-accessible Social Media, especially forums where Thinkpenguin customers are likely to be present in some numbers.
this type of action will cause Chris to lose business if he does not respond to paying customers, which should be sufficient to finally get him to respond.
it is uncomfortable, but tough: i cannot protect him any longer from the consequences of his failure to communicate.
Personally, I find it all a bit perplexing. Although I know that you
brought
Mr Waid into the effort with there apparently being some particular
interest
from him in the laptop, I would imagine that most people following this project would have expected you to bring the effort to completion
yourself:
fuck no, you must be absolutely kidding. you cannot possibly be serious.
if you genuinely believe that then you cannot possibly have been reading the updates where i specifically request assistance and remind everyone systematically that this is and always has been a COMMUNITY project where it lives and dies on what people help out with.
examples include writing documentation, wiki pages, developing linux kernel support, u-boot patches and getting OS Support up and running. none of which i can possibly be expected to handle alone.
i also go to some lengths to repeatedly state that as a Certification Mark Holder i am NOT PERMITTED TO SELL PRODUCT because it is a Conflict of Interest with the role and responsibility of a Certification Mark Holder.
once again, from the top:
it places the ENTIRE PROJECT AT RISK to proceed with the manufacture of the remaining Cards without first testing the 93 that are being witheld by Chrstopher Waid at his business premises.
Mike needs to know if the yield was 95% or if it was 5%.
we have no idea.
91 of those Cards could be FAULTY and CHRIS HAS NOT TOLD US
without knowing what the fault might be, Mike is risking proceeding to manufacture A THOUSAND FAULTY UNRECOVERABLE CARDS
at which point this project will have no other choice but to be declared terminated.
so will you please
will you please
for god's sake
stop arguing
stop speculating
and please
please
LISTEN
and HELP
by CONTACTING CHRISTOPHER WAID
to ask him very simply: "where are the 93 Cards"
so that we can send a Courier round to recover them, get them to Portland, so that Joshua can test them.
l.
This whole conversation is making me wonder if Chris is still alive.
-- hendrik
--
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On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 12:11 PM Hendrik Boom hendrik@topoi.pooq.com wrote:
This whole conversation is making me wonder if Chris is still alive.
this was my very first thought. we did some research, and found that there is _some_ empirical evidence which _might_ support the hypothesis that he is alive (and free), in the form of these podcasts:
https://www.freedomdecrypted.com/
however on reflection, i realise (only now) that, actually:
1) they could be pre-recorded at a far earlier date than publication 2) they could have been pre-recorded at a completely different location (such as a correctional facility).
in other words we have no actual direct evidence that, at this precise and exact time, that Chris is living and operating his business from his premises (which is also his home) in Keene, NH.
an actual study - by listening to the podcasts - to check for new events - would establish whether the podcasts are live, delayed by one day, delayed by one week, or a month, or posthumous.
l.
I am not going to read this entire thread. All I can say is that I have been ripped off for $1000.00 plus by this 'project'I did get 2 t-shirts though...No more crowd funding for me.In my book it's all a SCAM.CHANGE MY MIND!!!! On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 08:09:56 AM EST, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 12:11 PM Hendrik Boom hendrik@topoi.pooq.com wrote:
This whole conversation is making me wonder if Chris is still alive.
this was my very first thought. we did some research, and found that there is _some_ empirical evidence which _might_ support the hypothesis that he is alive (and free), in the form of these podcasts:
https://www.freedomdecrypted.com/
however on reflection, i realise (only now) that, actually:
1) they could be pre-recorded at a far earlier date than publication 2) they could have been pre-recorded at a completely different location (such as a correctional facility).
in other words we have no actual direct evidence that, at this precise and exact time, that Chris is living and operating his business from his premises (which is also his home) in Keene, NH.
an actual study - by listening to the podcasts - to check for new events - would establish whether the podcasts are live, delayed by one day, delayed by one week, or a month, or posthumous.
l.
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On Tuesday, November 22, 2022, Chuck Card via arm-netbook < arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk> wrote:
I am not going to read this entire thread. All I can say is that I have
been ripped off for $1000.00 plus by this 'project'I did get 2 t-shirts though...No more crowd funding for me.In my book it's all a SCAM.CHANGE MY MIND!!!!
don't be a fucking dickhead, Chuck. fucking well take reponsibility and fucking well help by pressurising Chris to tell us where YOUR Card is.
because I can tell you right now, because you called this project "a scam" despite 75 updates keeping you informed of every single step of the way, i'm definitely allocating one of the Cards being witheld by Chris as YOURS.
you want it you can fucking well contact him.
get the message?
start taking responsibility and quit pressurising or blaming me after everything i've done.
l.
I tried my two cents. Wrote in ther latest podcast blog a comment suggesting to take a look: https://imgur.com/a/VmZ1T65 Today noticed that the comment was deleted :P
El mar, 22 nov 2022 a las 14:09, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton (< lkcl@lkcl.net>) escribió:
On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 12:11 PM Hendrik Boom hendrik@topoi.pooq.com wrote:
This whole conversation is making me wonder if Chris is still alive.
this was my very first thought. we did some research, and found that there is _some_ empirical evidence which _might_ support the hypothesis that he is alive (and free), in the form of these podcasts:
https://www.freedomdecrypted.com/
however on reflection, i realise (only now) that, actually:
- they could be pre-recorded at a far earlier date than publication
- they could have been pre-recorded at a completely different location (such as a correctional facility).
in other words we have no actual direct evidence that, at this precise and exact time, that Chris is living and operating his business from his premises (which is also his home) in Keene, NH.
an actual study - by listening to the podcasts - to check for new events - would establish whether the podcasts are live, delayed by one day, delayed by one week, or a month, or posthumous.
l.
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
On Wednesday, November 23, 2022, Felix sucotronic@gmail.com wrote:
I tried my two cents. Wrote in ther latest podcast blog a comment suggesting to take a look: https://imgur.com/a/VmZ1T65 Today noticed that the comment was deleted :P
i am not in the least bit surprised. and isn't ironic that "Freedom Unleashed" engages in Censorship?
now you see why i said that multiple public messages are required, from all backers. Chris will not be able to keep up with Censorship and will eventua!ly be compelled to answer. that's all he has to do. answer the simple question "where are the 93 Cards"
i'll notify Crowd Supply. it makes the job of writing a very tough update a little easier if Joshua knows in advance roughly what to expect.
l.
I'm the dick head. GO FUCK YOURSELF YOU FUCKING CUNT OR IS IT KUNT OF A MUTHA FUCKING ASSHOLE. On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 03:21:43 PM EST, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
On Wednesday, November 23, 2022, Felix sucotronic@gmail.com wrote:
I tried my two cents. Wrote in ther latest podcast blog a comment suggesting to take a look: https://imgur.com/a/VmZ1T65 Today noticed that the comment was deleted :P
i am not in the least bit surprised. and isn't ironic that "Freedom Unleashed" engages in Censorship?
now you see why i said that multiple public messages are required, from all backers. Chris will not be able to keep up with Censorship and will eventua!ly be compelled to answer. that's all he has to do. answer the simple question "where are the 93 Cards"
i'll notify Crowd Supply. it makes the job of writing a very tough update a little easier if Joshua knows in advance roughly what to expect.
l.
On Wed, Nov 23, 2022 at 5:00 PM Christopher Havel laserhawk64@gmail.com wrote:
/sigh
Now, class...
I wish I had the kind of energy and stamina all ya'll seem to have. One of my rescued laptops committed sepukku Sunday shortly after arriving at my father's for Thanksgiving. Needs a motherboard. Then I was in the ER for nine hours Monday learning what it feels like to have a kidney stone. Yesterday I spent recovering from that, and from spending basically the entire night Monday-into-Tuesday on the can getting rid of the blame thing. I'm only just now settling into my vacay and ya'll all are still at it like a whole SCHOOL full of kindergartners who've all just found out there's a nationwide shortage of Kool-Aid.
I mean, on the one hand, it sure makes quite a racket. But on the other, hey, can I borrow some of that? I have a gaming computer to build and I'm still working out how, and my apartment REALLY needs a proper clean -- I have what I'm pretty sure is a chronic pain disorder that since late Dec 2020 has become coincident with a mild case of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and at this point I'm literally just relying on friends.
Ya'll all got some energy goin. I could USE that shit yo!
LOL.
(Hey, if ya can't take a few steps back, look at your life, and laugh, somethin's seriously wrong... y'know?)
On Wednesday, November 23, 2022, Christopher Havel laserhawk64@gmail.com wrote:
/sigh
Now, class...
it serves a purpose, Chris. the Mythbusters episode on swearing is particularly funny and informative.
l.
On Wed, Nov 23, 2022, 5:26 PM Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
On Wednesday, November 23, 2022, Christopher Havel laserhawk64@gmail.com wrote:
/sigh
Now, class...
it serves a purpose, Chris. the Mythbusters episode on swearing is particularly funny and informative.
l.
--
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Honestly, I'm more impressed by all ya'll's energy more'n anything else lol
On Wednesday, November 23, 2022, Christopher Havel laserhawk64@gmail.com wrote:
Honestly, I'm more impressed by all ya'll's energy more'n anything else
lol
if only it could be diverted usefully...
On Wed, Nov 23, 2022 at 5:31 PM Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
On Wednesday, November 23, 2022, Christopher Havel laserhawk64@gmail.com wrote:
Honestly, I'm more impressed by all ya'll's energy more'n anything else
lol
if only it could be diverted usefully...
I know, right? I'd love to have all ya'll's help cleaning...
( :P )
regarding:----------yes, for assuming i should do everything for you, where you could take responsibility and help out. i know you won't have liked hearing that, for which i'm sorry.---------- No dude -- You're the one that started out with the assumptions. Plus your further assumptions that are evident in the above remark are way more reveling than you probably realize. So as far as I am concerned, you can just go fuck all of the way off.Do you get me?
On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 06:20:04 PM EST, Christopher Havel laserhawk64@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Nov 23, 2022 at 5:31 PM Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
On Wednesday, November 23, 2022, Christopher Havel laserhawk64@gmail.com wrote:
Honestly, I'm more impressed by all ya'll's energy more'n anything else
lol
if only it could be diverted usefully...
I know, right? I'd love to have all ya'll's help cleaning...
( :P ) _______________________________________________ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
On Wednesday, November 23, 2022, Chuck Card via arm-netbook < arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk> wrote:
I'm the dick head.
yes, for assuming i should do everything for you, where you could take responsibility and help out. i know you won't have liked hearing that, for which i'm sorry.
GO FUCK YOURSELF YOU FUCKING CUNT OR IS IT KUNT OF A MUTHA FUCKING
ASSHOLE.
luckily i tolerate swearing because i understand how much it helps relieve stress. i say that as someone who is in distress and pain (severe physical pain) about 40% of my waking hours.
if you feel you need someone to get even angrier at, can i suggest contacting Chris. it might have the desired effect of shocking him into telling us where your Card is.
l.
On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 01:08:49PM +0000, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 12:11 PM Hendrik Boom hendrik@topoi.pooq.com wrote:
This whole conversation is making me wonder if Chris is still alive.
this was my very first thought. we did some research, and found that there is _some_ empirical evidence which _might_ support the hypothesis that he is alive (and free), in the form of these podcasts:
https://www.freedomdecrypted.com/
however on reflection, i realise (only now) that, actually:
- they could be pre-recorded at a far earlier date than publication
- they could have been pre-recorded at a completely different location (such as a correctional facility).
in other words we have no actual direct evidence that, at this precise and exact time, that Chris is living and operating his business from his premises (which is also his home) in Keene, NH.
Is there anyone that lives close enough to there that they could go and actually visit him to ask politely where the cards are?
Or perhaps offer to arrange transportation to Joshua?
-- hendrik
an actual study - by listening to the podcasts - to check for new events - would establish whether the podcasts are live, delayed by one day, delayed by one week, or a month, or posthumous.
l.
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
-- traduit par systran.net --
Hello,
SorryformypoorEnglish...andthankyouallforkeepingthisconversationfocusedonthebestpossible.
+1foryouridea,Hendrick,ifthatcanmakelifeeasierforChris.
FromwhereIam,thisishowIimagineIcanhelp: -WhenIregisterforaprojectfundedinaparticipatoryway,Itakealotoftimetothink,document,reflect,document,etc.,andIwait,Iwaittofeelabletobeunconditionallysupportiveofthisprojectbeforecommittingmyself. -FromwhatIunderstandofthecurrentsituationoftheproject,IthinkIhavetowaitforLuketopostanupdateoncrowdsupply.com(ormaybeonrhombus-tech.net?)toindicatetothebackers/thecommunityalistofsimpleandconcreteactionstohelpthisprojectmoveforward.Isthatright?Itwouldhelpme;)
I'llstaytuned. Goodlucktoall, Franck
-- original en français --
Bonjour,
Désolé pour mon faible niveau en anglais... et merci à tous pour tenir tous ces échanges orientés vers le meilleur des possibles.
+1 pour ton idée Hendrick, si cela peux rendre la vie plus simple à Chris.
De là où j'en suis, voilà comment j'imagine que je peux aider : - Quand je m'inscris dans un projet financé de façon participative, je prends beaucoup de temps pour réfléchir, me documenter, réfléchir, me documenter, etc, et j'attends, j'attends de me sentir capable d'être inconditionnellement solidaire dudit projet avant de m'engager. - De ce que je crois comprendre de la situation actuelle du projet, je crois qu'il faut que j'attende que Luke poste un update sur crowdsupply.com (ou peut-être sur rhombus-tech.net?) pour indiquer aux backers / à la communauté une liste d'actions simples et concrètes pour aider ce projet à avancer. C'est bien cela ? Moi ça m'aiderait ;)
Je reste à l'écoute. Bonne chance à tous, Franck
Le 24/11/2022 à 13:53, Hendrik Boom a écrit :
On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 01:08:49PM +0000, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 12:11 PM Hendrik Boom hendrik@topoi.pooq.com wrote:
This whole conversation is making me wonder if Chris is still alive.
this was my very first thought. we did some research, and found that there is _some_ empirical evidence which _might_ support the hypothesis that he is alive (and free), in the form of these podcasts:
https://www.freedomdecrypted.com/however on reflection, i realise (only now) that, actually:
- they could be pre-recorded at a far earlier date than publication
- they could have been pre-recorded at a completely different location (such as a correctional facility).
in other words we have no actual direct evidence that, at this precise and exact time, that Chris is living and operating his business from his premises (which is also his home) in Keene, NH.
Is there anyone that lives close enough to there that they could go and actually visit him to ask politely where the cards are?
Or perhaps offer to arrange transportation to Joshua?
-- hendrik
an actual study - by listening to the podcasts - to check for new events - would establish whether the podcasts are live, delayed by one day, delayed by one week, or a month, or posthumous.
l.
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 1:04 PM Franck Sinimalé franck@sinimale.fr wrote:
- De ce que je crois comprendre de la situation actuelle du projet, je
crois qu'il faut que j'attende que Luke poste un update sur crowdsupply.com
ici on explict avant. lorsque on peut fait quelquechose avant ca.
(ou peut-être sur rhombus-tech.net?) pour indiquer aux backers / à la communauté une liste d'actions simples et concrètes pour aider ce projet à avancer. C'est bien cela ? Moi ça m'aiderait ;)
c'est incroyable simple: ecrit a Chris et pose cette question: "where are the 93 Computer Cards?" et dis-nous la reponse.
ca c'est tout. j'ai dit cinque ou sept fois. c'est pas differente chaque fois. c'est tout la meme, chaque fois.
l.
Le 24/11/2022 à 14:09, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton a écrit :
On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 1:04 PM Franck Sinimalé franck@sinimale.fr wrote:
- De ce que je crois comprendre de la situation actuelle du projet, je
crois qu'il faut que j'attende que Luke poste un update sur crowdsupply.com
ici on explict avant. lorsque on peut fait quelquechose avant ca.
(ou peut-être sur rhombus-tech.net?) pour indiquer aux backers / à la communauté une liste d'actions simples et concrètes pour aider ce projet à avancer. C'est bien cela ? Moi ça m'aiderait ;)
c'est incroyable simple: ecrit a Chris et pose cette question: "where are the 93 Computer Cards?" et dis-nous la reponse.
ca c'est tout. j'ai dit cinque ou sept fois. c'est pas differente chaque fois. c'est tout la meme, chaque fois.
l.
Ok, thank you Luke for your tireless response. I looked for in vain, can you tell us (again) how to reach (mail or social network) Chris please ? Or where to find such way to reach him.
On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 1:04 PM Franck Sinimalé franck@sinimale.fr
wrote:
Ok, thank you Luke for your tireless response. I looked for in vain, can you tell us (again) how to reach (mail or social network) Chris please ? Or where to find such way to reach him.
His email address and the required GPG key are at https://www.thinkpenguin.com/about. I'm currently futzing my way through making Mailvelope work -- or, well, trying to -- so that I can make it behave well enough with my GMail account to send just the one email (I hope). It's... not going well. I'm not used to this sort of stuff lol
I'm sure you'll be amused to know, however, that I'm looking to migrate as much away from Google as I can, I've been researching Chinese-market smartphones so that I can find one without Google Integration (Play Store / Chrome for Mobile / Google Search bar / etc) and I'll probably switch to GMX for email and Firefox for the browser. It's a long, slow, painful learning process for me -- I'm used to the "if you don't have anything worth hiding..." paradigm of security, and I know that isn't good enough for you guys but it's served me well.
But, hey, let's see if I can get this one blinkin' thing to work, ey? LOL.
Le 24/11/2022 à 15:36, Christopher Havel a écrit :
On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 1:04 PM Franck Sinimaléfranck@sinimale.fr
wrote:
Ok, thank you Luke for your tireless response. I looked for in vain, can you tell us (again) how to reach (mail or social network) Chris please ? Or where to find such way to reach him.
His email address and the required GPG key are at https://www.thinkpenguin.com/about. I'm currently futzing my way through making Mailvelope work -- or, well, trying to -- so that I can make it behave well enough with my GMail account to send just the one email (I hope). It's... not going well. I'm not used to this sort of stuff lol
I'm sure you'll be amused to know, however, that I'm looking to migrate as much away from Google as I can, I've been researching Chinese-market smartphones so that I can find one without Google Integration (Play Store / Chrome for Mobile / Google Search bar / etc) and I'll probably switch to GMX for email and Firefox for the browser. It's a long, slow, painful learning process for me -- I'm used to the "if you don't have anything worth hiding..." paradigm of security, and I know that isn't good enough for you guys but it's served me well.
But, hey, let's see if I can get this one blinkin' thing to work, ey? LOL.
Many thank's Christopher. Mail sent. Under Debian I use Thunderbird that come with OpenPGP. Times ago I had used Mailvelope in Firefox, worked fine. Well, now waiting for a reply, I'll let know hear if any.
Bye.
I have JUST managed to send mine as well.
I'd appreciate it if someone'd poke me in a reasonable length of time, to see if I've had a response. I have a lot going on and my ADD memory just does not do well with such things, any attempt on my end will in all likelihood end up falling off the edge of the earth without even so much as a single step...
After all, *one* kerfluffle like this is more than enough! (Just one man's opinion lol)
I have to say, though -- if it'd been this hard to send a simple friggin email back in 1994, I think we would've all collectively told Tim Berners-Lee *precisely* where he could put that newfangled dag blame "Internet" thing of his! I'm quite thankful that, even with the tech of the day, it was easier then, at least on the user-side of things...
On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 10:25 AM Franck Sinimalé franck@sinimale.fr wrote:
Le 24/11/2022 à 15:36, Christopher Havel a écrit :
On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 1:04 PM Franck Sinimaléfranck@sinimale.fr
wrote:
Ok, thank you Luke for your tireless response. I looked for in vain, can you tell us (again) how to reach (mail or social network) Chris please ? Or where to find such way to reach him.
His email address and the required GPG key are at https://www.thinkpenguin.com/about. I'm currently futzing my way through making Mailvelope work -- or, well, trying to -- so that I can make it behave well enough with my GMail account to send just the one email (I hope). It's... not going well. I'm not used to this sort of stuff lol
I'm sure you'll be amused to know, however, that I'm looking to migrate
as
much away from Google as I can, I've been researching Chinese-market smartphones so that I can find one without Google Integration (Play
Store /
Chrome for Mobile / Google Search bar / etc) and I'll probably switch to GMX for email and Firefox for the browser. It's a long, slow, painful learning process for me -- I'm used to the "if you don't have anything worth hiding..." paradigm of security, and I know that isn't good enough for you guys but it's served me well.
But, hey, let's see if I can get this one blinkin' thing to work, ey?
LOL.
Many thank's Christopher. Mail sent. Under Debian I use Thunderbird that come with OpenPGP. Times ago I had used Mailvelope in Firefox, worked fine. Well, now waiting for a reply, I'll let know hear if any.
Bye.
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
On Thursday, November 24, 2022, Franck Sinimalé franck@sinimale.fr wrote:
Le 24/11/2022 à 14:09, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton a écrit :
On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 1:04 PM Franck Sinimalé franck@sinimale.fr
wrote:
- De ce que je crois comprendre de la situation actuelle du projet, je
crois qu'il faut que j'attende que Luke poste un update sur crowdsupply.com
ici on explict avant. lorsque on peut fait quelquechose avant ca.
(ou peut-être sur rhombus-tech.net?) pour indiquer aux backers / à la communauté une liste d'actions simples et concrètes pour aider ce projet à avancer. C'est bien cela ? Moi ça m'aiderait ;)
c'est incroyable simple: ecrit a Chris et pose cette question: "where are the 93 Computer Cards?" et dis-nous la reponse.
ca c'est tout. j'ai dit cinque ou sept fois. c'est pas differente chaque fois. c'est tout la meme, chaque fois.
l.
Ok, thank you Luke for your tireless response.
appreciated Franck. i have an email of "chris@thinkpenguin.com" but there are multiple methods. the more public (such as on forums) which Chris is known to frequent the better, and if he cannot censor them (such as on the freedomunchained one) that is even better.
the reason why public is better is because we have tried private, for over 18 months, and he simply does not respond. he is choosing to ignore them, and choosing to enact Censorship as a way to make the responsibility "disappear".
now, please, everyone: i cannot continue writing like this, repeating myself to the point of desperation. it is disrespectful that you are not listening, particularly that i am in such pain and so ill that i only have about one clear hour every couple of days. that you force me into a position of having to stop everything else and crash-emergency-reply in-depth to your questions is deeply frustrating for me when the answers are ignored, or already on updates, time and time again.
i cannot make promises to you because to do so would be 100% a lie. you - all of you - if you want your items you HAVE to start taking responsibility. i am sufficiently ill and in pain that the only thing i can do is skim-read and check you are along the right lines, occasionally giving hints that you will then have to work put for yourselves.
i WILL NOT EXPLAIN THIS AGAIN.
if you see someone once again failing to comprehend or repeat questions please REFER THEM DIRECTLY to the relevant archived message and most definitely DO NOT expect me to do that.
l.
On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 12:54 PM Hendrik Boom hendrik@topoi.pooq.com wrote:
Is there anyone that lives close enough to there that they could go and actually visit him to ask politely where the cards are?
i have in fact asked *another* person that very question. since asking them, they have also failed to respond and are now also unresponsive to further polite and reasonable follow-up prompting.
basically there's something that's happened (or happening) that when people find out they either become extremely frightened or so concerned that they no longer wish to get involved.
this would tend to support a tentative hypothesis that some event occurred involving the FBI or other Law Enforcement Agency, who may have conducted a raid, and stolen items including the Cards, where Chris does not wish to publicise that fact. that's my current working hypothesis.
Or perhaps offer to arrange transportation to Joshua?
i am giving serious consideration to just booking a DHL Courier to turn up at the door, and find out that way.
l.
On Tuesday, 22 November 2022 00:01:25 CET Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
On Monday, November 21, 2022, Paul Boddie paul@boddie.org.uk wrote:
OK, when someone is asked by Crowd Supply to contact the creators directly, you (as creator #1) are evidently too busy
no, this is wrong. or, factually misleading. the 93 Cards are at *Think Penguin's premises*.
From a message in March 2021:
"hiya Felix, yes doing well, very busy with LibreSOC tape-out is soon.
Chris received the other 90 of the Cards, for testing before the remaining 900 are done."
People asked again during 2021 and got no further replies. So, yes, we get it: you are busy with your other project.
i have spent 18 months persistently attempting communication to recover those Cards.
Well, I am sorry that you have been persistently attempting communication, but probably one of the things that we have collectively learned in recent years is that without continuous communication with those who have supported a crowdfunding campaign, confidence in that campaign evaporates rapidly.
Sadly, campaigns that have suffered from insurmountable setbacks tend to demotivate their creators, diminish their willingness to communicate, and then people start to question the motivations of those creators. I can think of at least one other campaign in which I have had some interest where this has probably happened.
Most of us here do not question your motivations, but I know of at least one other project which I follow (but have no direct interest in) where the creator has suffered from numerous setbacks and yet has continually kept their supporters informed, even if the news has been negative. Apart from a couple of provocateurs, most of the people who are involved seem sympathetic to the creator and their situation.
I know that you do not like your actions being reviewed and questioned, so let these be some more general observations for posterity, for those willing to take something away from this effort. On such matters, more in a moment.
[...]
Personally, I find it all a bit perplexing. Although I know that you brought Mr Waid into the effort with there apparently being some particular interest from him in the laptop, I would imagine that most people following this project would have expected you to bring the effort to completion yourself:
fuck no, you must be absolutely kidding. you cannot possibly be serious.
if you genuinely believe that then you cannot possibly have been reading the updates where i specifically request assistance and remind everyone systematically that this is and always has been a COMMUNITY project where it lives and dies on what people help out with.
I wasn't going to bother replying to your message at all until I read this. After all, there is not much to say about some kind of communications failure between two business associates supposedly under the supervision of an online commerce platform (to take the most charitable interpretation and ignoring the exhortations to name and shame or for a manhunt to take place).
But where I take great exception is the way you address and otherwise communicate with other people. Six or so years ago, you launched a crowdfunding campaign on the basis of working prototypes of a computer card and depictions of products that were claimed to be in the advanced stages of development. This whole endeavour was framed in terms of your expertise, connections and abilities to go and get things made.
When appearances proved to be deceptive, as in the instance of the microdesktop case that had apparently been specially made to illustrate the product, people were told that it was their job to pitch in and design the actual product. So, although there was a portrayal of finished items on offer, when the absence of such finished items was revealed, it suddenly became the job of the "community" to remedy the situation.
And when somebody did offer their assistance, they inadvertently transgressed with respect to your personal choice of collaboration tools, and you treated them appallingly. I completely regret not speaking out forcefully about this at the time. A genuine community project should be a democracy and participants should be treated with respect. Instead, you seem to think that a community involves you deciding how things should be done and then telling everyone that you "need" them to do it, as if they are your employees.
examples include writing documentation, wiki pages, developing linux kernel support, u-boot patches and getting OS Support up and running. none of which i can possibly be expected to handle alone.
In fact, some of us have attempted to engage with the supposed community aspects of this effort. But again, if the role of the community is merely to channel the thoughts of the important and very busy leader into actions, then there are several obstacles. Firstly, people need to have concrete things to work with if they are to do concrete tasks, and they also need to be empowered to get the work done and to be able to provide input and exercise influence.
Amongst other things, I have actually looked into some of the tasks around documentation and kernel support. One fundamental element of the kernel support was the way that housings should affect the devices seen by the computer card. I had a long discussion with you about this in 2020 where you insisted that with regard to the mechanisms in the Linux kernel...
"it's all there. the pieces are in place."
Supposedly, all the support had been introduced for Raspberry Pi "hats", but when I looked they didn't actually address the problem. That is another issue about taking direction from someone who thinks they have all the answers: often, those answers don't stand up to scrutiny. However, with regard to the Linux kernel, with its own form of unconstructive, exploitative "community" dynamics, I should probably give you some benefit of the doubt if you had the wrong impression.
All of this is pretty academic without actual hardware to use, leaving us treading water in the hope of something eventually showing up. At one point in the distant past, actual hardware was distributed to various individuals. What happened to that hardware and what work was actually done? Maybe those people treated it like another toy to play with and then found themselves distracted by something else. That might as well have been the backstory.
I am inclined to think that failure should be considered the default outcome of any crowdfunding campaign. Responsible crowdfunding should therefore involve conferring the ability to reproduce what was done to those who have supported the effort. If the campaign doesn't deliver, people should be able to salvage what was actually done to provide the chance of resuming that effort in other forms. Of course, if such a project were a genuine community effort, everybody would already have access to everything they might need.
For all its emphasis on open hardware, Crowd Supply should really be insisting on such transparency and the empowerment of actual communities, rather than trying to have it both ways as a kind of retail experience but without any guarantees of delivery, potentially leaving its customers without anything to show for their investments of time, effort and money.
[...]
to ask him very simply: "where are the 93 Cards"
so that we can send a Courier round to recover them, get them to Portland, so that Joshua can test them.
Although the argument has been presented that all of this has been very frustrating and/or delicate and that much has been tried behind the scenes to make progress, I view the lack of transparency rather negatively. It may be the case that you have wanted to communicate the situation but Crowd Supply have been reluctant to do so, but the outcome has been to conceal the gradual failure of a project, making me wonder how many other campaigns are experiencing similar or other forms of failure that are not communicated.
In any case, you don't need me or anyone else to send messages to some guy on another continent to initiate whatever action is necessary. Whatever I might do is completely superfluous to whatever could already be done to resolve this matter. You would almost be better off asking Warren Buffett to intervene. At least he would have an opinion about funding people's projects as well as carrying a degree of actual influence via corporate ownership hierarchy.
Paul
On Wednesday, November 23, 2022, Paul Boddie paul@boddie.org.uk wrote:
Well, I am sorry that you have been persistently attempting
communication, but
probably one of the things that we have collectively learned in recent
years
is that without continuous communication with those who have supported a crowdfunding campaign, confidence in that campaign evaporates rapidly.
in this exceptional case, i am sorry to say, "tough".
if this list was private rather than public, i would have been able to reach out to everyone at the exact time *in real time* as Chris was failing to respond.
i would have been able to say, to everyone, "that's really strange, Chris has taken 0.8 BTC and receipt of the 93 Cards, promised to test them and begin shipping them out... and yet here we are, August 2021 no response, Jan 2022 no response, a year later March 2022 no response, November 2022 over 18 months later no response, what the hell."
i could not possibly write that because it could damage Chris's business, and he was the one who sponsored me for USD *60 THOUSAND* over a 2+ year period including equipment.
one person every 3 weeks has emailed project-questions and i have asked every single one of them to contact Chris.
no response.
now he has definitely deliberately evaded answering, i am extremely pissed off. i trusted him with that BTC and with those Cards, and as best i can tell he's embezzled them. it may be that the FBI raided his premises and stole thm, but *we don't know* because he *won't fucking respond*
this has to all go into the Update that i have been holding back for literally a year because of the damage it could do to Chris's business.
Most of us here do not question your motivations, but I know of at least
one
other project which I follow (but have no direct interest in) where the creator has suffered from numerous setbacks and yet has continually kept
their
supporters informed, even if the news has been negative.
there is a world of difference between "negative" and "potentially being so bad it causes the evader to go bankrupt".
Apart from a couple
of provocateurs, most of the people who are involved seem sympathetic to
the
creator and their situation.
I know that you do not like your actions being reviewed and questioned,
this is completely incorrect: i am paranoid about ensuring i keep people informed, such that things *can* be reviewed and questioned.
what i am *very* pissed off about and will not tolerate is people assuming that i can and am going to do everything for them. this attitude is completely unacceptable.
you - all of you - have no fucking idea how much my life has been absolute hell, to bring this campaign to fruition. subsistence living, moving 15 times, zero holidays, no health insurance and degraded quality of life due to severe debilitating illness, for TEN YEARS.
and i'm being told i'm a "scammer" and should deliver what you DEMAND?? fuck off!!
when the absence of such finished items was revealed, it suddenly became
the
job of the "community" to remedy the situation.
Paul: *read* the updates. look above at the circumstances i describe i have been living under. i even moved to Taiwan, being completely isolated, unable to communicate with anyone except through translation software, to keep living costs down, in order to continue.
And when somebody did offer their assistance, they inadvertently
transgressed
with respect to your personal choice of collaboration tools, and you
treated
them appallingly. I completely regret not speaking out forcefully about
this
at the time. A genuine community project should be a democracy and participants should be treated with respect. Instead, you seem to think
that a
community involves you deciding how things should be done and then telling everyone that you "need" them to do it, as if they are your employees.
i'm sorry you feel that way. you should indeed have spoken up because it would have allowed the misunderstanding to be cleared up.
with the ill health and barely-above poverty subsistence level income, and overwhelming isolation you perhaps can appreciate or empathise why it appeared i have been "demanding".
if there was more money available, i could have offered it to people.
examples include writing documentation, wiki pages, developing linux kernel support, u-boot patches and getting OS Support up and running. none of which i can possibly be expected to handle alone.
In fact, some of us have attempted to engage with the supposed community aspects of this effort. But again, if the role of the community is merely
to
channel the thoughts of the important and very busy leader into actions,
then
there are several obstacles. Firstly, people need to have concrete things
to
work with if they are to do concrete tasks, and they also need to be
empowered
to get the work done and to be able to provide input and exercise
influence.
Amongst other things, I have actually looked into some of the tasks around documentation and kernel support. One fundamental element of the kernel support was the way that housings should affect the devices seen by the computer card. I had a long discussion with you about this in 2020 where
you
insisted that with regard to the mechanisms in the Linux kernel...
"it's all there. the pieces are in place."
yes. devicetree overlays emerged over time, and Alan Cox advised that the I2C Bus Scanning could be placed in lib/.
Supposedly, all the support had been introduced for Raspberry Pi "hats",
but
when I looked they didn't actually address the problem.
i would, in all frank honestly, not expect the wider Pi community to be able to find their derrieres with both hands, but occasionally a gem of a recipe "snippet" pops up from an expert or a highly-motivated individual, which is nice.
disappointing to hear it didn't happen in this case, but not a great surprise. i would expect better luck amongst TI Beagleboard community and 96Boards, though.
debian however is going to be a lot of hoop-jumping as overlays are not enabled by default.
That is another issue about taking direction from someone who thinks they have all the answers: often, those answers don't stand up to scrutiny. However, with regard to
the
Linux kernel, with its own form of unconstructive, exploitative
"community"
dynamics, I should probably give you some benefit of the doubt if you had
the
wrong impression.
the general entrepreneur and Engineering mindset "i don't know the answer but have the tools to find it" has only ever failed me due to sheer overwhelming exhaustion, not for any other reason.
All of this is pretty academic without actual hardware to use, leaving us treading water in the hope of something eventually showing up. At one
point in
the distant past, actual hardware was distributed to various individuals.
What
happened to that hardware
i don't know! very few went out. the gnu guix team got one each, i *think* tobias platen got guix operational, but he is quite reclusive and didn't widely announce it.
with exhaustion and lack of money from the campaign funds i had to focus my time on earning money for my family. if people don't ask or don't tell, i am not going to chase them, it costs me time and money to do so.
like right now.
nobody is paying me money for writing this.
I am inclined to think that failure should be considered the default
outcome
of any crowdfunding campaign. Responsible crowdfunding should therefore involve conferring the ability to reproduce what was done to those who
have
supported the effort.
a fascinating observation. the project's intended as Trademarked (Cert-Marked) FOSSHW.
so that we can send a Courier round to recover them, get them to Portland, so that Joshua can test them.
Although the argument has been presented that all of this has been very frustrating and/or delicate and that much has been tried behind the
scenes to
make progress, I view the lack of transparency rather negatively.
above. would you write something publicly that resulted in someone losing their livelihood after they'd given you money to feed yourself and your family for over two years?
could you do that to someone?
have a look at some of the news coming out of Keene, NH. Chris has been through some pretty rough shit. he doesn't need to be treated any rougher.
It may be the case that you have wanted to communicate the situation but Crowd
Supply
have been reluctant to do so,
no, they've been extremely good, encouraging me. Joshua wants those Cards so that he *personally* can do the testing.
In any case, you don't need me or anyone else to send messages to some
guy on
another continent to initiate whatever action is necessary.
yes, i (or, the project) really do (does).
you underestimate the power of personal embarrassment.
if you like i can assign the Cards that you pledged to be in the batch that is within Chris's personal possession? if that helps to give you the perspective and motivation that yes, there is concrete action directly related to you, that a direct and real person is witholding items that are your personal property, then i am happy to do that?
the idea there is that it would nip in the bud any impression that you are doing something you feel uncomfortable about taking responsibility for (to the benefit of everyone), instead replacing that with something that is very much about you, and you alone.
what do you think? if you would still not contact him to say "where is MY computer Card" then i will not do it, as there's no point.
Whatever I might
do is completely superfluous to whatever could already be done to resolve
this
matter.
no, really, this is false, and diminishes the true power that you have. the sheer numbers are what he cannot deny. he cannot keep censoring 2,500 people or censor slashdot or other large news outlet.
if you are just one person, yes he can ignore you.
if you are part of a crowd, no.
come on, you must know how this works.
l.
On Wednesday, 23 November 2022 23:19:01 CET Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
what i am *very* pissed off about and will not tolerate is people assuming that i can and am going to do everything for them. this attitude is completely unacceptable.
Nobody asked you "to do everything for them". But they probably didn't appreciate the experience of being offered things and then being told "oh, that's your job" along with detailed instructions on how they should be doing it.
you - all of you - have no fucking idea how much my life has been absolute hell, to bring this campaign to fruition. subsistence living, moving 15 times, zero holidays, no health insurance and degraded quality of life due to severe debilitating illness, for TEN YEARS.
Well, I am sincerely sorry that this has brought you hardship. It is not merely hindsight in saying that I could see that you were risking burning yourself out in the way you were pursuing this effort.
and i'm being told i'm a "scammer" and should deliver what you DEMAND?? fuck off!!
I don't demand anything, really, haven't called you a scammer, nor do I believe that you are one, either. But it seems to me that you have spread yourself too thin, quite possibly to maximise the appeal of the campaign. However, none of that was done at our request.
I will return to remarks about "community" since you brought that up. In a community, it doesn't all fall to one person to do everything, but in a situation where someone has made themselves the central individual who decides and facilitates everything, it becomes very difficult to distribute the burden because there is no genuine delegation of anything. Why else do you think people have been wanting answers from you personally rather than from a selection of other people?
[...]
above. would you write something publicly that resulted in someone losing their livelihood after they'd given you money to feed yourself and your family for over two years?
could you do that to someone?
have a look at some of the news coming out of Keene, NH. Chris has been through some pretty rough shit. he doesn't need to be treated any rougher.
I don't follow "the news coming out of Keene, NH", but you still seem to be advocating for the public shaming of the guy, so I might well wonder what the real deal is here, because this really doesn't add up at all. Are we supposed to act as your proxies in this matter as well?
I actually wouldn't mind some answers about how this situation was able to get to this rather unhappy point. The money seems to have flowed freely enough, and yet the only recourse being suggested appears to be a form of mob justice, despite the involvement of numerous commercial entities. I can hardly find that credible at all. In fact, I find it all rather distasteful.
Paul
On a serious note.
We're all here because we believe in something. Specifically, the *same* something. We're all here because we believe that, together, we can make that something happen. More that that, we're here because we believe, if we make that something happen, we'll make the world a fundamentally better place, in time.\
To some degree, that's because we know what we're doing, individually, as people. To some degree, that's because we've come to share a vision. To some degree... well, Bruce Springsteen's "Rainmaker" puts it better than I ever will... or, perhaps, The Eagles' rendition of the old Joe Walsh classic, "In The City". Some variation of "there's got to be a better way than *this*" and "You kind of just have to believe in *something*..."
Text is a limited medium. Email is a subset of that medium. Limited communication leads to easy misunderstandings... leads to, well, the exact sort of fracas we're all in.
It seems to me that we've got two choices here. We can continue to sit here going at it like cats in a bag, in which case -- in all likelihood -- the entire community we've built up rips itself apart and leaves Luke at Square Zero, at best -- starting over with a cash deficit, missing cards, and very few if any helpers. I mean, I'll probably stick around, but let's face it, I'm not exactly much use to anyone, here or otherwise.
We can do that, or we can sit down at the table, crack our knuckles, and figure out what we next need to do before going on to do it.
Personally, I don't see much merit in the former option, except that it probably feels pretty good in the moment to most of you. I find nothing but grim nihilism in the tearing down and ripping apart of what we've all worked hard to accomplish. Furthermore, we've all done some stuff in the past that makes us look like knuckledragging mouth-breathers. I'll admit as much as anyone, I was thirteen once. We've all done dumb shit. I know I have, want a list? ;)
Heck, when I was first on here, I was convinced that without Windows support, this was a dead-end nothing project. You know what? The world moved on, things changed... and that particular outburst aged like fine, fine milk ;) At least I'm not famous, it'll never be in the history books next to quips like the guy from IBM claiming a world market of, what, a half-dozen computers? or Bill Gates claiming that 640K of RAM ought to be enough for anyone.
We've all Done The Dumb.
Personally, I trust that, when this is all said and done and out the door, we'll all have accomplished enough to get our fair pats-on-the-back... monetary or otherwise. But I'm not here because it pays well, and I don't think any of us are.
I get that Luke feels like he owes Other Chris. I get that most of ya'll folks out there feel like you're owed something. But when you look back, communication over the past year or two or three has been somewhere between minimal and "this is literally a ghost town". There's probably unmaintained Linux packages on Github with more message traffic than us over the past year. I get that there are a lot of stepped-on toes and a lot of hurt feelings. But this isn't how to handle that. Yelling and screaming and carrying on and all only makes for a good commercial for Trojan condoms. Nobody really likes it, it isn't good communication -- hell, it isn't even good behavior, and that's when you're a preschooler! -- and it sure as hell doesn't get anything accomplished. All it does is make noise... *destructive* noise, because it drives us all away from each other, away from our common goal.
I'm not here for that, and I don't think anyone else here is. Not really.
I'll readily admit, further, that I'm a follower and not a leader... but the leaders I admire lead by example, lead by how they live and act. Actions speak louder than words, after all.
Luke, like it or not, you've put yourself on point. Everyone else here is going on like a "who has the loudest siren" contest at the local fire department. So, Luke, you tell me what you think the next big step is, and make me a reasonable case for it, and I'll do what of it I can.
The rest of you sit down, shut up, and wait till your damn turn comes around again. You've had your time and you've done nothing but caterwaul. Luke has the talking-stick, and then it goes to me.
Let's get this shitshow back on the road.
Luke, it sounds like, at the very beginning of all of this, you were asking for someone in the community -- I imagine that there's a good reason it can't be you, no worries -- to reach out to that fellow Chris in Keene, NH, either via email or some sort of embedded website contact form somewhere, to follow up about some EOMA CPU Cards that had been shipped to the fellow, and he'd promptly clammed up shortly thereafter and has been evading contact since...?
(Clarity: I'm also a Chris, but not THAT Chris, I live in NC and I don't have any Cards lol... fine by me, that's well beyond my ability to do anything but reduce to eWaste!)
I presume you still want someone to do that. Can you provide contact info for the fellow? I can send a flippin email FFS.
Also, if you have specific phrasing you want me to use, or specific restrictions on what I need to say or not say, I need to know that specifically and clearly. I know you tend to be pretty precise and particular about such things.
Luke has the talking-stick at this point, and when he's done, I'll have it back. I will be entirely ignoring the rest of you lot. It's a sad day when I'm just about the only adult in the room, I'm 36 perpetually-going-on-13 lol. But this squabbling is stupid, and the OPPOSITE of productive, and it needs to end. Ya'll all won't, so I will.
Someone's gotta fukkin do it.
On Thursday, 24 November 2022 01:55:28 CET Christopher Havel wrote:
Luke has the talking-stick at this point, and when he's done, I'll have it back. I will be entirely ignoring the rest of you lot. It's a sad day when I'm just about the only adult in the room,
I find this insulting and condescending. I only initiated this thread to ask for some kind of indication of progress, given that there has been no news for almost two years. I know that some people have given up on this project entirely and are resigned to the idea that they put up non-trivial amounts of money and will have nothing to show for it. Few people contributing to this effort will be so "loaded" that they will not miss that money.
I also find Luke's assertions that I have not read his updates insulting and condescending. While I do not have the details of all of them at the front of my mind for instant analysis, I have read every last one of them, right up to the point where they ceased and left everyone wondering what was going on. I have always tried to encourage further progress in this project, even during the period when nothing was evidently happening.
And here, the point I made about a lack of communication is entirely pertinent. If you want to see what happens when a crowdfunding campaign "succeeds" and then the updates stop coming, take a look at this one:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/roundcube-next--2#/
Some of you may even recognise a name or two amongst those involved. While the money in that campaign may have effectively evaporated for all we know, which is not the case here, just look at the updates to see what the effect is when the campaign initiators cease to engage. Are those people not being adults either?
I understand the sentiment that having no news to report would make any campaign update rather lacking in substance, but then I have to ask what was stopping anyone issuing updates saying that Luke was still waiting to hear from Chris? There is a middle ground between saying nothing and screaming allegations of criminality at someone: a periodic reminder that no communication has been received would have been enough to communicate the state of the effort.
But had such updates been issued, I understand that it would have given a negative impression of the project status. And such negative impressions would tarnish the crowdfunding platform, suggesting that not all is well, that maybe there are widespread problems with project completion on the platform. So, everyone was left with the impression that one of the creators was merely busy doing what the other had asked him to do.
People might expect to read angry messages on platforms such as Kickstarter and Indiegogo about a failed campaign, as new projects are promoted underneath with their funding levels ticking upwards: the unhappy customers ejected via the back door as new punters are welcomed in via the front door. But Crowd Supply is supposed to be better than that. Certainly, the emergence of corporate-sponsored campaigns from the likes of AMD and Microchip seems to indicate a level of confidence in the platform.
Then again, those corporations might actually be the ones providing the guarantee that the people involved are able to complete their projects, that one of them won't be advocating vigilante justice (but not too severe, of course) against the other, or anything similarly absurd. I presume that Crowd Supply's vision is that when people click on "Back This Project", they expect it to be rather more like "Place Your Order" than a ticket into some kind of unhinged participative theatre performance.
Paul
On Thursday, November 24, 2022, Paul Boddie paul@boddie.org.uk wrote:
On Wednesday, 23 November 2022 23:19:01 CET Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
what i am *very* pissed off about and will not tolerate is people assuming that i can and am going to do everything for them. this attitude is completely unacceptable.
Nobody asked you "to do everything for them". But they probably didn't appreciate the experience of being offered things and then being told "oh, that's your job" along with detailed instructions on how they should be
doing
it.
i know this reaction. i have it myself, and seen it also many times. someone says something, it's repeated, but the attention to the words is low. they repeat them, but nobody takes it seriously, because they are not really paying attention: the reason being, "the rubber has not hit the road" quite just yet.
then something happens, such as "delivery deadline" (coming up, or likely to be missed, or *actually* missed.
at that point the words that were repeated time and time again, that were not taken seriously, are put in front of them as a reminder, and all hell breaks loose.
Well, I am sincerely sorry that this has brought you hardship.
appreciated. the lesson for me is to put my foot down and not tolerate that.
It is not merely hindsight in saying that I could see that you were risking burning yourself out in the way you were pursuing this effort.
and having components go EOL five times, costing redesigns each time. we know it's all in the updates.
if we had USD 1 million+ like the failed Intel Compute Card the entire thing would have been done years ago.
and i'm being told i'm a "scammer" and should deliver what you DEMAND?? fuck off!!
I don't demand anything, really, haven't called you a scammer,
no, you haven't - chuck did.
nor do I believe that you are one, either. But it seems to me that you have spread yourself too thin, quite possibly to maximise the appeal of the campaign.
no, i took a risk. the 75 updates explain the rationale and the journey.
However, none of that was done at our request.
I will return to remarks about "community" since you brought that up. In a community, it doesn't all fall to one person to do everything, but in a situation where someone has made themselves the central individual who
decides
and facilitates everything, it becomes very difficult to distribute the
burden
because there is no genuine delegation of anything. Why else do you think people have been wanting answers from you personally rather than from a selection of other people?
because Crowsdsupply provided the means to do so. i must talk to them about it and redirect to a mailing list but i refrained from doing that in case people ask confidential questions that got publicised without their expectations, or it cost CS engineering time to set up.
[...]
above. would you write something publicly that resulted in someone losing their livelihood after they'd given you money to feed yourself and your family for over two years?
could you do that to someone?
have a look at some of the news coming out of Keene, NH. Chris has been through some pretty rough shit. he doesn't need to be treated any rougher.
I don't follow "the news coming out of Keene, NH",
google "Christopher Waid Keene NH arrest" or "Chris Waid Keene FBI Raid".
you will need to use archive.org because of geo-blocking.
but you still seem to be advocating for the public shaming of the guy,
it's a known technique that is going to happen whether he or any of us like it or not. i have warned him enough times in the 40+ emails he has ignored that if he does not tell me what the fuck is going on i will have no choice but to escalate. this still did not get a response so i am left with no choice but to proceed with the planned update.
so I might well wonder what the real deal is here, because this really doesn't add up at all. Are we
supposed
to act as your proxies in this matter as well?
no, you are expected to act on your own behalf. calmly, respectfully (except in Chuck's case), and bearing in mind that Chris has gone through hell too recently, and that he did at one point donate me USD 60,000 over 2+ years.
i can only repeat this so many times before i simply give up.
I actually wouldn't mind some answers
you mean, other than the 75 updates and the answers here already provided?
about how this situation was able to get to this rather unhappy point.
so would i.
but because Chris is ignoring my communications the only option remaining is for *other people* to contact him and ask, i can't believe i am repeating this again, "where are the 93 Computer Cards".
The money seems to have flowed freely enough,
no, it flowed until it reached the point where taking further funds would no longer permit product to be manufactured. at which point i had to urgently find other money.
this is all in the updates, i have repeated this enough times that i am really quite concerned: have you been reading them *at all*?
and yet the only recourse being suggested appears to be a form of mob
justice,
yyep. it is a known technique. i have been very systematic over the past 18+ months, slowly escalating. it should be obvious due to the context why i kept matters private, because if he responded "omg omg i'm so sorry, get someone to pick up the Cards so Joshua can take over testing", nobody would need to know that he systematically ignored 40 emails, 3 phone calls, and at least 8 support tickets, from at least 15 people including the CEO of Crowdsupply.
you absolutely don't take these kinds of decisions lightly. they are getting on for "last resort", but after 18+ months we are at the last resort stage, after exhausting all other "less distasteful" means.
despite the involvement of numerous commercial entities. I can hardly find that credible at all. In fact, I find it all rather distasteful.
yyep.
but he should not have lied to me, nor embezzled 0.8 BTC. he made a committment to test the Cards, and to ship them out. i transferred the donated 0.8 BTC worth 40,000 at the time specifically to him, to do exactly that.
and he has not responded since Bob tested one Card.
i have tried private shaming, he has not responded.
i have tried Crowdsupply contacting him, he has not responded.
i have tried asking backers to contact him, he has not responded.
on this list right now, people have attempted to contact him, he has censored the messages and not responded.
public shaming is the step before the absolute last resort, the one that costs money (which we do not have)
if you have better realistic ideas (not involving "get Mouser Lawyers" or "Get Warren to call him") that do not involve me spending time or money i am open to hearing them.
l.
Luke I made no demands merely pointed out that I have been scammed out of 1000.00 by Crowd Supply. Now how the fuck do I get off of this mailing list. I'm tired of the constant reminder of how I got fucked out of 1000.00. So that I can move on. On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 11:34:57 PM EST, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
https://www.theverge.com/22599932/bitcoin-raid-keene-new-hampshire-ian-freem...
_______________________________________________ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 10:06 AM Chuck Card via arm-netbook arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk wrote:
Luke I made no demands merely pointed out that I have been scammed out of 1000.00 by Crowd Supply.
chuck: i reallly don't care how you deceive yourself. it was and always will be your responsibility,
Now how the fuck do I get off of this mailing list.
you take action yourself. you find out for yourself. that is your responsibilty. don't expect me to answer you or spoon-feed you: if you can't think and act for yourself i don't give a fuck what you do or think.
I'm tired of the constant reminder of how I got fucked out of 1000.00.
i'm not interested in your excuses to blame and fail to help and take action.
you can scream and shout as much as you like and i will not care, help, or take any action.
sort it out yourself: learn how to unsubscribe from a standard mailing list yourself. don't expect me to do anything further for you.
l.
On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 10:05:46AM +0000, Chuck Card via arm-netbook wrote:
Luke I made no demands merely pointed out that I have been scammed out of 1000.00 by Crowd Supply. Now how the fuck do I get off of this mailing list.
At the bottom of each mailing list message, there is a link to a website:
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
If you go to that website, you will find unsubscribe instructions near the botto of that page.
-- hendrik
I'm tired of the constant reminder of how I got fucked out of 1000.00. So that I can move on. On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 11:34:57 PM EST, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
https://www.theverge.com/22599932/bitcoin-raid-keene-new-hampshire-ian-freem...
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk _______________________________________________ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
On Thursday, November 24, 2022, Hendrik Boom hendrik@topoi.pooq.com wrote:
At the bottom of each mailing list message, there is a link to a website:
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
If you go to that website, you will find unsubscribe instructions near
the botto of that page.
thank you for explaining it, Hendrik. Chuck is clearly so distressed he hasn't noticed that every message has that note, but it doesn't say what it is for. i will add a extra line to it.
l.
On Nov 23, 2022, at 21:34, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
https://www.theverge.com/22599932/bitcoin-raid-keene-new-hampshire-ian-freem...
Thanks for the link.
Looks like a messy situation but I didn’t see any indication that Mr. Waid was arrested or prosecuted. I get that bad things happened to some of his friends but how does that affect his ability to test EOMA processor cards or communicate via E-mail or telephone?
arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk
-
Adam Van Ymeren -
Brian Sammon -
Christopher Havel -
Chuck Card -
Felix -
Franck Sinimalé -
Hendrik Boom -
Joakim Seeberg -
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton -
murph -
Paul Boddie -
Peter Carlson -
Richard Wilbur -
Sam Huntress