No, don't worry. I don't call names on anyone. As RMS said, I'm not glad that he died, but I'm glad that he's gone. I believe in the value of human life above all else. It would be immoral( imo) to apply crude logic to this. I do not celebrate the death of any human being no matter how savage or harmful that person might have been to humanity. And I sure won't celebrate Linus' death because you might hate him but it won't change the fact that we 100% rely on his work and we don't know how his death could affect future development of linux and free drivers in general.
I guess it is a matter of how each individual thinks: For me it makes no sense to discuss how something will work if we can't get it to work our way in the first place. In other words: computing will be done and programs will be written, the question is do you want to be a part of the procedure and help do it your way or just sit in the corner waiting for the perfect solution to come up before you commit to it ? Because that solution might not come. Other people are much more idealists than me. That's fine. We need both types of people.
But before you decide to completely ignore system76 and their efforts, I need to point out that they have indeed supplied a lot of code and have benefited the libre hardware community in general a lot. I have been looking at their history and various interviews of them and from what I've gathered:
1) They have contributed code both to Ubuntu specific packages( installer, unity) and to the kernel, that is writing DACs( as an example given) and pushing companies for open sourcing drivers. In fact if there is one that takes advantage of their effort it is Dell who according to Daniel Fore( one of their employees) takes advantage of that hardware on their Xps Developer's edition.
2) They do seem to like the cooperative nature of FOSS. At least their blog posts do show so. System76 started as a 2 man business installing linux on clevo laptops. Then they started expanding the range of their activities by working on drivers and paying a lot of attention to the details. The "purists" right now are probably thinking that the main goal is to just get it working in a libre way, but high quality is actually important too. So it might just be that they consider shipping a 100% libre computer that will be useful to their demographic something out of their reach as of right now. And when it comes to laptops it's not like they have many choices, it's intel for the cpus and nvidia for the gpus. Amd is non existent and arm for laptops of the class they are selling is still not a thing.
3) They are the biggest customer of Clevo and as such their word holds a lot of value and they do push towards making a lot of linux friendly decisions. See this comment https://www.reddit.com/r/System76/comments/611zf5/question_how_much_control_...
And anyway something that is not widely known: when arm netbooks started becoming a thing OEMs were putting linux on them( of course). Microsoft saw a very threatening market emerging and raged hell upon them that if they kept doing this the sales of their other models would suffer due to them removing the OEM discount on the windows license. After that they proceeded to change the model so instead of charging per machine they charge per model. So basically even if you buy e.g. a Dell Lattitude with Ubuntu preinstalled and then wipe it and replace it with an FSF approved distro YOU ARE STILL PAYING THE WINDOWS LICENSE. Now some people might disagree with me, but for me libre software is a war against oppression and is directly competing with microsoft etc( disagree as in that we do not compete but exist to fulfeel our own needs). So just for this reason, if you need to buy an x86 computer and a libreboot model is not an option it is better to buy a system76 instead of e.g. a dell or a thinkpad and then install gnu/linux on it.
Anyway I guess there is also another big difference for me: Some people might think it is ok to have a binary blob e.g. on the firmware for their wifi card as long as you don't interact with it via userland and the OS and the applications are libre. I'm on the exact opposite position: I consider blobs and an operating system that limit or obscure my access to hardware to be of the most unethical nature and less so the programs themselves. Because I have paid for the hardware but an application might come for no cost, therefor I do not have any demands from the author of that application. Will I run it if it's not free ? probably not. But at the end of the day you do pay with your wallet and for that reason I am not e.g. buying nvidia hardware, even though it's the only 100% libre gpu with 3d accel. I don't care. I'd much rather support amd in their free driver efforts and instead hope that someone will pick the fact that they do not need to write any gallium3D stuff but just reverse engineer the (small) blobs that still exist, resulting in a much easier way to write a 100% libre driver compared to nuveau.
My point is, do I think System76 is perfect ? No. Do I like what they do ? Yes I like it a lot. Do I think they could be more vigilant with their interactions with other companies when it comes to free drivers ? Absolutely. But I think it is a better solution than anything else( or at least has been until purism dropped the ME neutralization bomb on skylake a bit earlier). But at least give some respect to a company that started putting gnu/linux on laptops on freaking 2005 and managed to survive and thrive. Maybe because their choices of including some proprietary software actually made it possible. Heck, even purism which as a company started exactly with the purpose of selling 100% libre computers had to put up with the intel ME for some generations until they finally found a way to disable it. So now you can actually buy a skylake laptop that has the ME neutralized. Maybe if they did not attempt a 'half-assed" effort first they would never get to that point.
On Sat, Apr 22, 2017 at 5:32 PM, Lyberta lyberta@lyberta.net wrote:
Bill Kontos:
I'm tired of all the purists that will bash every company that does a step in the right direction but does not go all the way through, even
when
that company was started somewhere around 2005 in a guy's basement when
the
ecosystem was much less mature and they had almost no funding at all( or because they call it linux and not GNU/Linux).
And I'm tired of companies exploiting hard work of the GNU project and Free Software movement. I'm tired of the Open Source movement. I'm tired of Linux, I'm tired of Linus Torvalds. He puts blobs in the kernel and calls it acceptable. In the end we get tons of products that are completely unusable. Check any Android phone and you'll that it is full of proprietary blobs for everything, that is completely unusable without them.
Every time you call the operating system Linux, you help Open Source movement. You help Google, you help Linux foundation, you help evil corporations. Linux was the most damaging thing that happened to the Free Software movement because people started mixing the terms Free Software and Open Source. People became unaware of 4 fundamental freedoms.
I have celebrated the death of Steve Jobs and I'm going to celebrate the death of Linus Torvalds. And before you start calling me names, let me tell that I was officially declared mentally disabled. But if there is one good thing that my mental disability gave me, it's the inability to accept compromises. I value my 4 fundamental freedoms and I'm not going to give them away without a fight.
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\On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 7:16 PM, Bill Kontos vkontogpls@gmail.com wrote:
No, don't worry. I don't call names on anyone. As RMS said, I'm not glad that he died, but I'm glad that he's gone. I believe in the value of human life above all else.
even the worst person in the world, if we encounter them, simply shows us whom we are. our reactions to them, our thoughts - our actions.
what i've learned over many years of working not just with software libre but with many other people is that i act as an accelerant. just being around others brings out the best *and* the worst in them - both being good things, in different ways. the "good" is obvious, but the "bad" tends to be *so extreme* - something that was otherwise completely non-obvious even to them let alone those people adversely affected - that it cannot be ignored any longer, or comes to the attention of a wider audience.
i've been censored approximately *five* times from various different projects over the past seventeen years. *every single one of them*, by failing to acknowledge and deal with the underlying problems within their team and problematic members - has, some twelve to eighteen months later, had some form of catastrophic implosion in the form of loss of contributors in, users of, scope and relevance of, or funding of the project.
everyone has a role to play.
more tomorrow bill, i'll read the rest then: it's 4:30am here.
l.
Bill Kontos:
No, don't worry. I don't call names on anyone. As RMS said, I'm not glad that he died, but I'm glad that he's gone. I believe in the value of human life above all else. It would be immoral( imo) to apply crude logic to this. I do not celebrate the death of any human being no matter how savage or harmful that person might have been to humanity. And I sure won't celebrate Linus' death because you might hate him but it won't change the fact that we 100% rely on his work and we don't know how his death could affect future development of linux and free drivers in general.
There is a line that you may cross after which there is almost no return. If the whole world is extremist and fascist, then you fix it with extremism and terrorism. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind but by that point you don't care. You've given up on life. You want blood. You keep the last bullet for yourself. You choose free software so that intelligence agencies can't spy on your activity. So that they are unaware of your plan that you've been plotting for the most of your life. So that you are free from belief, trust and law. You never forget and you never forgive. You are anonymous. You are the judge, jury and executioner.
...
Fuck. I hate this world, I hate myself. There go 2 hours without suicide thoughts.
And anyway something that is not widely known: when arm netbooks started becoming a thing OEMs were putting linux on them( of course). Microsoft saw a very threatening market emerging and raged hell upon them that if they kept doing this the sales of their other models would suffer due to them removing the OEM discount on the windows license. After that they proceeded to change the model so instead of charging per machine they charge per model. So basically even if you buy e.g. a Dell Lattitude with Ubuntu preinstalled and then wipe it and replace it with an FSF approved distro YOU ARE STILL PAYING THE WINDOWS LICENSE. Now some people might disagree with me, but for me libre software is a war against oppression and is directly competing with microsoft etc( disagree as in that we do not compete but exist to fulfeel our own needs). So just for this reason, if you need to buy an x86 computer and a libreboot model is not an option it is better to buy a system76 instead of e.g. a dell or a thinkpad and then install gnu/linux on it.
Interesting observation. I have bought Dell laptop with Ubuntu preinstalled as it was the only model with GNU/Linux distro I could find quickly.
Anyway I guess there is also another big difference for me: Some people might think it is ok to have a binary blob e.g. on the firmware for their wifi card as long as you don't interact with it via userland and the OS and the applications are libre. I'm on the exact opposite position: I consider blobs and an operating system that limit or obscure my access to hardware to be of the most unethical nature and less so the programs themselves.
Yes, the closer the program to the hardware, the worse it is if it's non-free. Therefore, proprietary BIOS/UEFI and kernel blobs are the worst.
I am not e.g. buying nvidia hardware, even though it's the only 100% libre gpu with 3d accel. I don't care. I'd much rather support amd in their free driver efforts and instead hope that someone will pick the fact that they do not need to write any gallium3D stuff but just reverse engineer the (small) blobs that still exist, resulting in a much easier way to write a 100% libre driver compared to nuveau.
I have AMD CPU+GPU or APU on most of my PCs. I've heard a lot of bad stuff about Nvidia. But now AMD Ryzen CPUs contain PSP backdoor. And my suspicion is that they've intentionally shipped faulty CPUs which lock up during FMA instruction so that they can plant another NSA backdoor into the microcode update.
Lyberta, speaking as a concerned random dude on the Internet, who happens to have a family member who suffers from depression, and who happens himself to have mental issues -- I feel obligated to say that if you're having frequent suicidal thoughts, you *really* should get that looked at by a qualified professional.
I know that it sometimes feels bad -- like you're swallowing your pride -- to go to the head shrink dude (especially if one has trust issues with medical people, as my family member does) -- but, there's absolutely *zero* shame in asking for help when you need it (contrary to the opinion of some folks who themselves seem a bit off-kilter, if you ask me!) -- and, quite honestly, life really *is* worth living. By way of example -- I know for a fact that I wouldn't be able to take a walk on a nice sunny fall day and enjoy the beautiful colors of the turning leaves, if I were in a pine box in a hole in the ground, dead as a stone -- I think my spirit would rather dearly miss those walks.
No, I'm not religious. I don't even have 'faith', AFAIK (I have more urgent and important things to do than contemplate the hypotheticals of What May Lie Beyond, TBH). No holy roller mission here -- promise -- just one dude with an opinion, trying to offer some free advice to a fellow human who sounds like they could use it. It's your life, though, and your choice. I wish you well on whatever path you take... just, "choose wisely, grasshopper!" -- as my mother sometimes says.
Having said all of that -- I'm not one to be pushy, and this is admittedly quite off-topic for this list -- so I'll stop here for now.
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 4:25 AM, Lyberta lyberta@lyberta.net wrote:
There is a line that you may cross after which there is almost no return. If the whole world is extremist and fascist, then you fix it with extremism and terrorism.
y'know... there's a famous black civil rights activist who, when faced with a fascist / aparheid "law" he was accused of violating, responded "go ahead and arrest me: because if i comply with your law it's far worse than *anything* you could do to me by putting me in prison".
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind
you know that that saying actually means that if you take someone's eye, then *yours* will be taken, right? it's *not* giving you the "right" to respond with violent force against violence: it's a *WARNING* to you that violence committed is a downward spiralling trap.
Fuck. I hate this world, I hate myself.
i have a wise friend who very kindly gave me a definition of stress. he said it's when people make a comparison between the external (perceived) world and their internal view, cannot cope with the difference... and seek to blame the EXTERNAL world. "i hate your tie!! yesss... it's the *tie's* fault!" :)
ironically i had never considered before the scenario where the "target" of the emotion/stress *was* actually your "self".
lyberta, do look up eckart tolle's story, it's very very funny (and relevant). ok ok i can't resist telling the tale: he was an academic, in some of the worst (bitchiest) back-stabbing in-fighting for funding and "status" academic environments it's possible to be in, and it was really *really* getting him down. so one day he woke up and said to himself, intending to kill himself, "i can't live with myself".
except, the academic in him went, "hang on a minute, what the hell? what the hell is the damn difference between this "I" and this "myself"?? in that stupid sentence! *I* can't live with my "self"?? wtf??" and the sudden and revelationary recognition of the incredible cognitive dissonance between two "things" - two "selfs" - in his mind which he *wasn't even aware were separate" resulted in what's known in the trade as a "kundalini whiteout".
when he came to he found he was still sitting on the bed but he could perceive things in a totally new way. i won't go into the rest of the story but he's now one of the western world's best known "spiritual masters", so his books (including audio books) are well worth reading.
And anyway something that is not widely known: when arm netbooks started becoming a thing OEMs were putting linux on them( of course). Microsoft saw a very threatening market emerging and raged hell upon them that if they kept doing this the sales of their other models would suffer due to them removing the OEM discount on the windows license.
i heard they were just out-and-out blackmailing companies. i've heard a lot of these stories.
After that they proceeded to change the model so instead of charging per machine they charge per model. So basically even if you buy e.g. a Dell Lattitude with Ubuntu preinstalled and then wipe it and replace it with an FSF approved distro YOU ARE STILL PAYING THE WINDOWS LICENSE. Now some people might disagree with me, but for me libre software is a war against oppression and is directly competing with microsoft etc( disagree as in that we do not compete but exist to fulfeel our own needs). So just for this reason, if you need to buy an x86 computer and a libreboot model is not an option it is better to buy a system76 instead of e.g. a dell or a thinkpad and then install gnu/linux on it.
Interesting observation.
agreed.
I have bought Dell laptop with Ubuntu preinstalled as it was the only model with GNU/Linux distro I could find quickly.
well, now you're aware of two other possible companies: system76 and thinkpenguin. yay!
l.
I'd personally fund Thinkpenguin way before System76, just because they don't use NVIDIA, but i noticed the new Galago Pro laptop doesn't as well.
On 24 April 2017 10:15:40 GMT+03:00, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 4:25 AM, Lyberta lyberta@lyberta.net wrote:
There is a line that you may cross after which there is almost no return. If the whole world is extremist and fascist, then you fix it with extremism and terrorism.
y'know... there's a famous black civil rights activist who, when faced with a fascist / aparheid "law" he was accused of violating, responded "go ahead and arrest me: because if i comply with your law it's far worse than *anything* you could do to me by putting me in prison".
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind
you know that that saying actually means that if you take someone's eye, then *yours* will be taken, right? it's *not* giving you the "right" to respond with violent force against violence: it's a *WARNING* to you that violence committed is a downward spiralling trap.
Fuck. I hate this world, I hate myself.
i have a wise friend who very kindly gave me a definition of stress. he said it's when people make a comparison between the external (perceived) world and their internal view, cannot cope with the difference... and seek to blame the EXTERNAL world. "i hate your tie!! yesss... it's the *tie's* fault!" :)
ironically i had never considered before the scenario where the "target" of the emotion/stress *was* actually your "self".
lyberta, do look up eckart tolle's story, it's very very funny (and relevant). ok ok i can't resist telling the tale: he was an academic, in some of the worst (bitchiest) back-stabbing in-fighting for funding and "status" academic environments it's possible to be in, and it was really *really* getting him down. so one day he woke up and said to himself, intending to kill himself, "i can't live with myself".
except, the academic in him went, "hang on a minute, what the hell? what the hell is the damn difference between this "I" and this "myself"?? in that stupid sentence! *I* can't live with my "self"?? wtf??" and the sudden and revelationary recognition of the incredible cognitive dissonance between two "things" - two "selfs" - in his mind which he *wasn't even aware were separate" resulted in what's known in the trade as a "kundalini whiteout".
when he came to he found he was still sitting on the bed but he could perceive things in a totally new way. i won't go into the rest of the story but he's now one of the western world's best known "spiritual masters", so his books (including audio books) are well worth reading.
And anyway something that is not widely known: when arm netbooks
started
becoming a thing OEMs were putting linux on them( of course).
Microsoft saw
a very threatening market emerging and raged hell upon them that if
they
kept doing this the sales of their other models would suffer due to
them
removing the OEM discount on the windows license.
i heard they were just out-and-out blackmailing companies. i've heard a lot of these stories.
After that they proceeded to change the model so instead of charging per machine they charge
per
model. So basically even if you buy e.g. a Dell Lattitude with
Ubuntu
preinstalled and then wipe it and replace it with an FSF approved
distro
YOU ARE STILL PAYING THE WINDOWS LICENSE. Now some people might
disagree
with me, but for me libre software is a war against oppression and
is
directly competing with microsoft etc( disagree as in that we do not compete but exist to fulfeel our own needs). So just for this
reason, if
you need to buy an x86 computer and a libreboot model is not an
option it
is better to buy a system76 instead of e.g. a dell or a thinkpad and
then
install gnu/linux on it.
Interesting observation.
agreed.
I have bought Dell laptop with Ubuntu preinstalled as it was the only model with GNU/Linux distro I could
find
quickly.
well, now you're aware of two other possible companies: system76 and thinkpenguin. yay!
l.
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 9:28 AM, Allan Mwenda allanitomwesh@gmail.com wrote:
I'd personally fund Thinkpenguin way before System76, just because they don't use NVIDIA, but i noticed the new Galago Pro laptop doesn't as well.
argh, i wish that had come out months ago when i was looking for a new laptop. it has all the specs of the one i've got, but with an all-aluminium chassis. if you outfit it with everything i chose it's still $600 cheaper (because no nvidia graphics which it turns out you can't really use anyway, it's too unstable).
l.
Well, you are not getting a quad core tho
On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 5:12 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl@lkcl.net
wrote:
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 9:28 AM, Allan Mwenda allanitomwesh@gmail.com wrote:
I'd personally fund Thinkpenguin way before System76, just because they don't use NVIDIA, but i noticed the new Galago Pro laptop doesn't as
well.
argh, i wish that had come out months ago when i was looking for a new laptop. it has all the specs of the one i've got, but with an all-aluminium chassis. if you outfit it with everything i chose it's still $600 cheaper (because no nvidia graphics which it turns out you can't really use anyway, it's too unstable).
l.
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 10:52 AM, Bill Kontos vkontogpls@gmail.com wrote:
Well, you are not getting a quad core tho
ah true! i didn't spot that. ok i'm slightly mollified: i do like being able to do "make -j9"... :)
Yeah Nvidia graphics is an instant nope from me especially in a laptop. On a desktop you gotta go way back (gtx 680) to get any decent performance out of noveau. Just stay away, far away.
On 25 April 2017 05:12:44 GMT+03:00, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 9:28 AM, Allan Mwenda allanitomwesh@gmail.com wrote:
I'd personally fund Thinkpenguin way before System76, just because
they
don't use NVIDIA, but i noticed the new Galago Pro laptop doesn't as
well.
argh, i wish that had come out months ago when i was looking for a new laptop. it has all the specs of the one i've got, but with an all-aluminium chassis. if you outfit it with everything i chose it's still $600 cheaper (because no nvidia graphics which it turns out you can't really use anyway, it's too unstable).
l.
On 4/24/17, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 4:25 AM, Lyberta lyberta@lyberta.net wrote:
There is a line that you may cross after which there is almost no return. If the whole world is extremist and fascist, then you fix it with extremism and terrorism.
y'know... there's a famous black civil rights activist who, when faced with a fascist / aparheid "law" he was accused of violating, responded "go ahead and arrest me: because if i comply with your law it's far worse than *anything* you could do to me by putting me in prison".
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind
you know that that saying actually means that if you take someone's eye, then *yours* will be taken, right? it's *not* giving you the "right" to respond with violent force against violence: it's a *WARNING* to you that violence committed is a downward spiralling trap.
Fuck. I hate this world, I hate myself.
i have a wise friend who very kindly gave me a definition of stress. he said it's when people make a comparison between the external (perceived) world and their internal view, cannot cope with the difference... and seek to blame the EXTERNAL world. "i hate your tie!! yesss... it's the *tie's* fault!" :)
ironically i had never considered before the scenario where the "target" of the emotion/stress *was* actually your "self".
lyberta, do look up eckart tolle's story, it's very very funny (and relevant). ok ok i can't resist telling the tale: he was an academic, in some of the worst (bitchiest) back-stabbing in-fighting for funding and "status" academic environments it's possible to be in, and it was really *really* getting him down. so one day he woke up and said to himself, intending to kill himself, "i can't live with myself".
except, the academic in him went, "hang on a minute, what the hell? what the hell is the damn difference between this "I" and this "myself"?? in that stupid sentence! *I* can't live with my "self"?? wtf??" and the sudden and revelationary recognition of the incredible cognitive dissonance between two "things" - two "selfs" - in his mind which he *wasn't even aware were separate" resulted in what's known in the trade as a "kundalini whiteout".
when he came to he found he was still sitting on the bed but he could perceive things in a totally new way. i won't go into the rest of the story but he's now one of the western world's best known "spiritual masters", so his books (including audio books) are well worth reading.
And anyway something that is not widely known: when arm netbooks started becoming a thing OEMs were putting linux on them( of course). Microsoft saw a very threatening market emerging and raged hell upon them that if they kept doing this the sales of their other models would suffer due to them removing the OEM discount on the windows license.
i heard they were just out-and-out blackmailing companies. i've heard a lot of these stories.
After that they proceeded to change the model so instead of charging per machine they charge per model. So basically even if you buy e.g. a Dell Lattitude with Ubuntu preinstalled and then wipe it and replace it with an FSF approved distro YOU ARE STILL PAYING THE WINDOWS LICENSE. Now some people might disagree with me, but for me libre software is a war against oppression and is directly competing with microsoft etc( disagree as in that we do not compete but exist to fulfeel our own needs). So just for this reason, if you need to buy an x86 computer and a libreboot model is not an option it is better to buy a system76 instead of e.g. a dell or a thinkpad and then install gnu/linux on it.
Interesting observation.
agreed.
I have bought Dell laptop with Ubuntu preinstalled as it was the only model with GNU/Linux distro I could find quickly.
well, now you're aware of two other possible companies: system76 and thinkpenguin. yay!
l.
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
And, just to put my cent out there, Kant and Nietzsche are also options for that reading list xP
On 4/24/17, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
lyberta, do look up eckart tolle's story, it's very very funny (and relevant). ok ok i can't resist telling the tale: he was an academic, in some of the worst (bitchiest) back-stabbing in-fighting for funding and "status" academic environments it's possible to be in, and it was really *really* getting him down. so one day he woke up and said to himself, intending to kill himself, "i can't live with myself".
except, the academic in him went, "hang on a minute, what the hell? what the hell is the damn difference between this "I" and this "myself"?? in that stupid sentence! *I* can't live with my "self"?? wtf??" and the sudden and revelationary recognition of the incredible cognitive dissonance between two "things" - two "selfs" - in his mind which he *wasn't even aware were separate" resulted in what's known in the trade as a "kundalini whiteout".
when he came to he found he was still sitting on the bed but he could perceive things in a totally new way. i won't go into the rest of the story but he's now one of the western world's best known "spiritual masters", so his books (including audio books) are well worth reading.
I'm not sure how my feedback on this is valued, but : Believe it or not, I'm not a fan of Eckhart not just 'cause I always despised the definitive "all knowing" rhetoric used by both Church's AND spiritualists, but because I felt Eckhart et-all frequently made the habit of making individuals feel better about themselves by demeaning and incessantly talking about how worthless and powerless so-called "oppressive" forces are, literally as an abstract. Life's meaning (in my opinion) is literally based around conflict as an abstract (not just violence), so it kinda feels like their interpretation of life is a bit pointless if one doesn't make being spiritual a part of their identity (since to them conflict with one's self seems to be the only conflict that has any meaning, and kinda implies if a person views themselves as good human beings just the way they are that they are living a life with nothing but pointless conflicts). That's just my opinion xP
On 4/24/17, John Luke Gibson eaterjolly@gmail.com wrote:
On 4/24/17, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
lyberta, do look up eckart tolle's story, it's very very funny (and relevant). ok ok i can't resist telling the tale: he was an academic, in some of the worst (bitchiest) back-stabbing in-fighting for funding and "status" academic environments it's possible to be in, and it was really *really* getting him down. so one day he woke up and said to himself, intending to kill himself, "i can't live with myself".
except, the academic in him went, "hang on a minute, what the hell? what the hell is the damn difference between this "I" and this "myself"?? in that stupid sentence! *I* can't live with my "self"?? wtf??" and the sudden and revelationary recognition of the incredible cognitive dissonance between two "things" - two "selfs" - in his mind which he *wasn't even aware were separate" resulted in what's known in the trade as a "kundalini whiteout".
when he came to he found he was still sitting on the bed but he could perceive things in a totally new way. i won't go into the rest of the story but he's now one of the western world's best known "spiritual masters", so his books (including audio books) are well worth reading.
I'm not sure how my feedback on this is valued, but : Believe it or not, I'm not a fan of Eckhart not just 'cause I always despised the definitive "all knowing" rhetoric used by both Church's AND spiritualists, but because I felt Eckhart et-all frequently made the habit of making individuals feel better about themselves by demeaning and incessantly talking about how worthless and powerless so-called "oppressive" forces are, literally as an abstract. Life's meaning (in my opinion) is literally based around conflict as an abstract (not just violence), so it kinda feels like their interpretation of life is a bit pointless if one doesn't make being spiritual a part of their identity (since to them conflict with one's self seems to be the only conflict that has any meaning, and kinda implies if a person views themselves as good human beings just the way they are that they are living a life with nothing but pointless conflicts). That's just my opinion xP
Oops I meant to send that just to Luke, Not the whole list, sorry everybody for any bit derailing mt comments may be here xD Sorry
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 9:40 AM, John Luke Gibson eaterjolly@gmail.com wrote:
Oops I meant to send that just to Luke, Not the whole list, sorry
not a problem
everybody for any bit derailing mt comments may be here xD Sorry
ahh... it's quite common on this list for the topic to be um derailed half a dozen times - don't worry about it :)
On 04/24/2017 05:20 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 9:40 AM, John Luke Gibson eaterjolly@gmail.com wrote:
Oops I meant to send that just to Luke, Not the whole list, sorry
not a problem
everybody for any bit derailing mt comments may be here xD Sorry
ahh... it's quite common on this list for the topic to be um derailed half a dozen times - don't worry about it :)
It is kind of a problem when people talk about killing people though. even if they are have justification due to how outsiders will perceive it.
Don't get me wrong, I feel his desire to see justice around me. But killing people to get that justice does the opposite usually due to people's limited perspective.
Also, killing is almost always wrong. except in self defense. At least that's my thoughts.
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It's one of the reasons this list is so interesting. My search for libre hardware lead me to eoma which led me to this list. I came for libre hardware I stayed for libre hardware and philosophy :)
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 11:40 AM, John Luke Gibson eaterjolly@gmail.com wrote:
On 4/24/17, John Luke Gibson eaterjolly@gmail.com wrote:
On 4/24/17, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
lyberta, do look up eckart tolle's story, it's very very funny (and relevant). ok ok i can't resist telling the tale: he was an academic, in some of the worst (bitchiest) back-stabbing in-fighting for funding and "status" academic environments it's possible to be in, and it was really *really* getting him down. so one day he woke up and said to himself, intending to kill himself, "i can't live with myself".
except, the academic in him went, "hang on a minute, what the hell? what the hell is the damn difference between this "I" and this "myself"?? in that stupid sentence! *I* can't live with my "self"?? wtf??" and the sudden and revelationary recognition of the incredible cognitive dissonance between two "things" - two "selfs" - in his mind which he *wasn't even aware were separate" resulted in what's known in the trade as a "kundalini whiteout".
when he came to he found he was still sitting on the bed but he could perceive things in a totally new way. i won't go into the rest of the story but he's now one of the western world's best known "spiritual masters", so his books (including audio books) are well worth reading.
I'm not sure how my feedback on this is valued, but : Believe it or not, I'm not a fan of Eckhart not just 'cause I always despised the definitive "all knowing" rhetoric used by both Church's AND spiritualists, but because I felt Eckhart et-all frequently made the habit of making individuals feel better about themselves by demeaning and incessantly talking about how worthless and powerless so-called "oppressive" forces are, literally as an abstract. Life's meaning (in my opinion) is literally based around conflict as an abstract (not just violence), so it kinda feels like their interpretation of life is a bit pointless if one doesn't make being spiritual a part of their identity (since to them conflict with one's self seems to be the only conflict that has any meaning, and kinda implies if a person views themselves as good human beings just the way they are that they are living a life with nothing but pointless conflicts). That's just my opinion xP
Oops I meant to send that just to Luke, Not the whole list, sorry everybody for any bit derailing mt comments may be here xD Sorry
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On 04/24/2017 04:40 AM, John Luke Gibson wrote:
On 4/24/17, John Luke Gibson eaterjolly@gmail.com wrote:
On 4/24/17, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
lyberta, do look up eckart tolle's story, it's very very funny (and relevant). ok ok i can't resist telling the tale: he was an academic, in some of the worst (bitchiest) back-stabbing in-fighting for funding and "status" academic environments it's possible to be in, and it was really *really* getting him down. so one day he woke up and said to himself, intending to kill himself, "i can't live with myself".
except, the academic in him went, "hang on a minute, what the hell? what the hell is the damn difference between this "I" and this "myself"?? in that stupid sentence! *I* can't live with my "self"?? wtf??" and the sudden and revelationary recognition of the incredible cognitive dissonance between two "things" - two "selfs" - in his mind which he *wasn't even aware were separate" resulted in what's known in the trade as a "kundalini whiteout".
when he came to he found he was still sitting on the bed but he could perceive things in a totally new way. i won't go into the rest of the story but he's now one of the western world's best known "spiritual masters", so his books (including audio books) are well worth reading.
I'm not sure how my feedback on this is valued, but : Believe it or not, I'm not a fan of Eckhart not just 'cause I always despised the definitive "all knowing" rhetoric used by both Church's AND spiritualists, but because I felt Eckhart et-all frequently made the habit of making individuals feel better about themselves by demeaning and incessantly talking about how worthless and powerless so-called "oppressive" forces are, literally as an abstract. Life's meaning (in my opinion) is literally based around conflict as an abstract (not just violence), so it kinda feels like their interpretation of life is a bit pointless if one doesn't make being spiritual a part of their identity (since to them conflict with one's self seems to be the only conflict that has any meaning, and kinda implies if a person views themselves as good human beings just the way they are that they are living a life with nothing but pointless conflicts). That's just my opinion xP
Oops I meant to send that just to Luke, Not the whole list, sorry everybody for any bit derailing mt comments may be here xD Sorry
Too late, I already responded ;P
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On 04/24/2017 04:37 AM, John Luke Gibson wrote:
On 4/24/17, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
lyberta, do look up eckart tolle's story, it's very very funny (and relevant). ok ok i can't resist telling the tale: he was an academic, in some of the worst (bitchiest) back-stabbing in-fighting for funding and "status" academic environments it's possible to be in, and it was really *really* getting him down. so one day he woke up and said to himself, intending to kill himself, "i can't live with myself".
except, the academic in him went, "hang on a minute, what the hell? what the hell is the damn difference between this "I" and this "myself"?? in that stupid sentence! *I* can't live with my "self"?? wtf??" and the sudden and revelationary recognition of the incredible cognitive dissonance between two "things" - two "selfs" - in his mind which he *wasn't even aware were separate" resulted in what's known in the trade as a "kundalini whiteout".
when he came to he found he was still sitting on the bed but he could perceive things in a totally new way. i won't go into the rest of the story but he's now one of the western world's best known "spiritual masters", so his books (including audio books) are well worth reading.
I'm not sure how my feedback on this is valued, but : Believe it or not, I'm not a fan of Eckhart not just 'cause I always despised the definitive "all knowing" rhetoric used by both Church's AND spiritualists, but because I felt Eckhart et-all frequently made the habit of making individuals feel better about themselves by demeaning and incessantly talking about how worthless and powerless so-called "oppressive" forces are, literally as an abstract. Life's meaning (in my opinion) is literally based around conflict as an abstract (not just violence), so it kinda feels like their interpretation of life is a bit pointless if one doesn't make being spiritual a part of their identity (since to them conflict with one's self seems to be the only conflict that has any meaning, and kinda implies if a person views themselves as good human beings just the way they are that they are living a life with nothing but pointless conflicts). That's just my opinion xP
To be honest, I am christian myself, but I see the importance of free software as a way to fight back against corruption. Also, I see hatred as something that goes against God. So basically, if you hate someone with or without reason, it is a sin. Life has conflict now, and peace or torment later in my opinion.
I am just telling you I am a christian, so that you know, that even a few believers out there are free software supporters. Not most, but a few. ;)
Also, it is worth noting that I am more of a socialist, I do not support copyright's grievous policies like 70 years lasting after the death of the original author and that's just the beginning of it.
Conservatives in my humble opinion today are usually far from the ideal of God.
They falsely accuse people, they steal, they lie, and they worship money while pretending to worship God.
This has gotten even more off topic I am sure, but just know, for those atheists who think all christians or religious people are hypocrites... the answer is flatly no.
There are some who are like that, but don't paint everyone with the same brush so to speak.
I thank God every day for those who fight for freedom from corruption such as Luke and Stallman.
even if Stallman is an atheist, he is still being used for the greater good in my opinion. That's just me.
okay, thread derailment, done. :)
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Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton:
i have a wise friend who very kindly gave me a definition of stress. he said it's when people make a comparison between the external (perceived) world and their internal view, cannot cope with the difference... and seek to blame the EXTERNAL world. "i hate your tie!! yesss... it's the *tie's* fault!" :)
When I was 10 or 11 years old, it became obvious to me that the only way from this hell is to kill my classmates and teachers. If I will kill myself, they will laugh at my corpse, if I will kill them, I will laugh at their corpses and their parents will be busy grieving to laugh at me. I will win. They will lose.
When I went to school I had to deal with classmates and teachers, when I went home I had to deal with my parents. The hell never ended, it never took a break. But I kept repeating "I will kill them, I will kill them". Every day. From dawn to dusk. And it became my only salvation, my only hope, my only purpose of life. With each day I was more determined. I've always wondered my no one else did this, it was so obvious. I didn't know about Columbine High massacre at that time.
And it was cast in stone. I'm killing them. But how to get a gun? Oh, that turned to be hard. But I understood, I am a terrorist now. I need to think and act as a terrorist. Any person can report myself to law enforcement. Everyone is my potential enemy. I need to never tell anyone any personally identifiable information, anything that can cast suspicion. I became very paranoid. Naturally, when I've found free software movement which promised software without malicious features, without surveillance, I immediately recognized its immense value to my mission.
As I grew older, my mental notebook of people I should kill has expanded exponentially. Now it contains several billions of people. The largest group being all religious people. And they've built a church near my home! I should thank them for building a murder scene solely for me, now I don't have a difficult choice of where to go on a killing spree.
But my brain had a very nasty surprise for me. I came out as transgender to myself. Now I also can be killed for simply being LGBT. I don't mind being killed after my killing spree because I'd have fulfilled my purpose of life, but I mind being killed for simply being LGBT. They will kill me and laugh at my corpse, just as if I'd kill myself. I will lose. I don't want to lose, I have people to kill.
If you are a terrorist, no one will see it until you take your gun out and start shooting. But if you are a guy in a dress, everyone will see it, all this homophobic and transphobic society, all those punks who hunt LGBT people for sport. I can't defend myself against a swarm without a gun. Heh, a gun, what a recurring theme.
And so I quit my job, I've tried to kill myself again, I ended up in psychiatric hospital. And they told me that I have a mental condition and need to take pills for the rest of my life. Of course, I never told anyone about wanting to kill people. I didn't want to lose.
But of course, no amount of pills will fix society so I kept being hospitalized every few months. And I've tried different doctors, different hospitals, paid and government funded. My family even needed to ask friends for money so I can go in a paid hospital. But all they could do is to give me pills. Fuckers.
But I never gave up. As long as I'm alive, I want to kill people. If I get a gun and go on a killing spree, I would be the life worth living.
And as I write this, I see how thousands of intelligence agencies' employees are carefully studying this letter, I see a police at my door, locking me up. But I don't care, I will end up in a psychiatric hospital again, for the countless time. I've spent years living in fear that police will find me, but in the end I was the one who asked to be found.
Coupla things to respond to here.
@ Mr Gibson -- I am a student of computers, not of the mind. I prefer to tinker with things that can safely be turned off and back on again ;) namely technology. Also, I'm aware of the mess that is inpatient psychiatry, and I was not and would not be recommending that.
@ Lyberta -- I'll just say that I don't think it's any healthier to be wanting to kill other people than it is to be wanting to kill yourself. Somehow that doesn't fit my definition of 'normal'. But that's me -- and I don't want to, you know, tell you how to think. Not my job. So I'll drop this for now, except to say that pills can do you a world of good if you let them.
@ everyone -- sorry for the thread derailment. Not my intent.
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 8:10 AM, Lyberta lyberta@lyberta.net wrote:
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton:
i have a wise friend who very kindly gave me a definition of stress. he said it's when people make a comparison between the external (perceived) world and their internal view, cannot cope with the difference... and seek to blame the EXTERNAL world. "i hate your tie!! yesss... it's the *tie's* fault!" :)
When I was 10 or 11 years old, it became obvious to me that the only way from this hell is to kill my classmates and teachers. If I will kill myself, they will laugh at my corpse, if I will kill them, I will laugh at their corpses and their parents will be busy grieving to laugh at me. I will win. They will lose.
When I went to school I had to deal with classmates and teachers, when I went home I had to deal with my parents. The hell never ended, it never took a break. But I kept repeating "I will kill them, I will kill them". Every day. From dawn to dusk. And it became my only salvation, my only hope, my only purpose of life. With each day I was more determined. I've always wondered my no one else did this, it was so obvious. I didn't know about Columbine High massacre at that time.
And it was cast in stone. I'm killing them. But how to get a gun? Oh, that turned to be hard. But I understood, I am a terrorist now. I need to think and act as a terrorist. Any person can report myself to law enforcement. Everyone is my potential enemy. I need to never tell anyone any personally identifiable information, anything that can cast suspicion. I became very paranoid. Naturally, when I've found free software movement which promised software without malicious features, without surveillance, I immediately recognized its immense value to my mission.
As I grew older, my mental notebook of people I should kill has expanded exponentially. Now it contains several billions of people. The largest group being all religious people. And they've built a church near my home! I should thank them for building a murder scene solely for me, now I don't have a difficult choice of where to go on a killing spree.
But my brain had a very nasty surprise for me. I came out as transgender to myself. Now I also can be killed for simply being LGBT. I don't mind being killed after my killing spree because I'd have fulfilled my purpose of life, but I mind being killed for simply being LGBT. They will kill me and laugh at my corpse, just as if I'd kill myself. I will lose. I don't want to lose, I have people to kill.
If you are a terrorist, no one will see it until you take your gun out and start shooting. But if you are a guy in a dress, everyone will see it, all this homophobic and transphobic society, all those punks who hunt LGBT people for sport. I can't defend myself against a swarm without a gun. Heh, a gun, what a recurring theme.
And so I quit my job, I've tried to kill myself again, I ended up in psychiatric hospital. And they told me that I have a mental condition and need to take pills for the rest of my life. Of course, I never told anyone about wanting to kill people. I didn't want to lose.
But of course, no amount of pills will fix society so I kept being hospitalized every few months. And I've tried different doctors, different hospitals, paid and government funded. My family even needed to ask friends for money so I can go in a paid hospital. But all they could do is to give me pills. Fuckers.
But I never gave up. As long as I'm alive, I want to kill people. If I get a gun and go on a killing spree, I would be the life worth living.
And as I write this, I see how thousands of intelligence agencies' employees are carefully studying this letter, I see a police at my door, locking me up. But I don't care, I will end up in a psychiatric hospital again, for the countless time. I've spent years living in fear that police will find me, but in the end I was the one who asked to be found.
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Christopher Havel:
@ Lyberta -- I'll just say that I don't think it's any healthier to be wanting to kill other people than it is to be wanting to kill yourself. Somehow that doesn't fit my definition of 'normal'. But that's me -- and I don't want to, you know, tell you how to think. Not my job. So I'll drop this for now, except to say that pills can do you a world of good if you let them.
This is a humane execution. They turn you into a vegetable and other people think you are awake, but you are asleep, you have no coherent thoughts. I have gained 40 kgs under antipsychotics and now I have problems standing up and sitting down, I have low blood pressure, my knees hurt a lot, I can barely walk anymore. I'm just a lump of fat now. Lump of fat that waits for the world to kill it.
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 3:27 PM, Lyberta lyberta@lyberta.net wrote:
thoughts. I have gained 40 kgs under antipsychotics and now I have problems standing up and sitting down, I have low blood pressure, my knees hurt a lot, I can barely walk anymore. I'm just a lump of fat now.
what's happening there is your body's using fat to shunt all the toxins into "emergency storage" as your body (liver, kidneys) can't process them fast enough to get them out your system. i would count the fucked-up antipsychotic drugs amongst those toxins. *sigh*.
l.
Yea, unfortunately antipsychotic drugs are not good enough yet. Still the projected danger of not taking them and committing suicide or go on a killing spree over taking them and not committing suicide but live a lower quality life is higher.
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 7:22 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl@lkcl.net
wrote:
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 3:27 PM, Lyberta lyberta@lyberta.net wrote:
thoughts. I have gained 40 kgs under antipsychotics and now I have problems standing up and sitting down, I have low blood pressure, my knees hurt a lot, I can barely walk anymore. I'm just a lump of fat now.
what's happening there is your body's using fat to shunt all the toxins into "emergency storage" as your body (liver, kidneys) can't process them fast enough to get them out your system. i would count the fucked-up antipsychotic drugs amongst those toxins. *sigh*.
l.
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or there is an alternative way without drugs and with good quality of life - deal with your problems
On 25 April 2017 at 01:37, Bill Kontos vkontogpls@gmail.com wrote:
Yea, unfortunately antipsychotic drugs are not good enough yet. Still the projected danger of not taking them and committing suicide or go on a killing spree over taking them and not committing suicide but live a lower quality life is higher.
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 7:22 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton < lkcl@lkcl.net> wrote:
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 3:27 PM, Lyberta lyberta@lyberta.net wrote:
thoughts. I have gained 40 kgs under antipsychotics and now I have problems standing up and sitting down, I have low blood pressure, my knees hurt a lot, I can barely walk anymore. I'm just a lump of fat now.
what's happening there is your body's using fat to shunt all the toxins into "emergency storage" as your body (liver, kidneys) can't process them fast enough to get them out your system. i would count the fucked-up antipsychotic drugs amongst those toxins. *sigh*.
l.
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Well the problem with that truism unfortunately is that in this situation that particular use of the word "problems" is tooo abstract. Ultimately, what that could mean is too many different things. When a system's components are damaging each other simultaneously, who gets to decide which one's the problem? An impartial engineer that's not one of those components theirself? Well unfortunately with society, it's damn hard to find an individual that's not a component of that society yet close enough to make that judgment. *nods*
On 4/25/17, Hrvoje Lasic lasich@gmail.com wrote:
or there is an alternative way without drugs and with good quality of life
- deal with your problems
On 25 April 2017 at 01:37, Bill Kontos vkontogpls@gmail.com wrote:
Yea, unfortunately antipsychotic drugs are not good enough yet. Still the projected danger of not taking them and committing suicide or go on a killing spree over taking them and not committing suicide but live a lower quality life is higher.
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 7:22 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton < lkcl@lkcl.net> wrote:
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 3:27 PM, Lyberta lyberta@lyberta.net wrote:
thoughts. I have gained 40 kgs under antipsychotics and now I have problems standing up and sitting down, I have low blood pressure, my knees hurt a lot, I can barely walk anymore. I'm just a lump of fat now.
what's happening there is your body's using fat to shunt all the toxins into "emergency storage" as your body (liver, kidneys) can't process them fast enough to get them out your system. i would count the fucked-up antipsychotic drugs amongst those toxins. *sigh*.
l.
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On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 9:21 AM, John Luke Gibson eaterjolly@gmail.com wrote:
Well the problem with that truism unfortunately is that in this situation that particular use of the word "problems" is tooo abstract. Ultimately, what that could mean is too many different things. When a system's components are damaging each other simultaneously, who gets to decide which one's the problem?
one man's "terrorist" is another man's "freedom fighter"... and the West *might* actually be decadent after all...
l.
On 4/25/17, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 9:21 AM, John Luke Gibson eaterjolly@gmail.com wrote:
Well the problem with that truism unfortunately is that in this situation that particular use of the word "problems" is tooo abstract. Ultimately, what that could mean is too many different things. When a system's components are damaging each other simultaneously, who gets to decide which one's the problem?
one man's "terrorist" is another man's "freedom fighter"... and the West *might* actually be decadent after all...
Exactly!.. This whole conversation can't get me to stop thinking about the anime "Terror in Resonance" or the american tv show "the pretender" off of which that anime is based. Main protagonists were terrorists (and freedom fighters) in every possible sense except ironically they refused to kill (anyone) and methodically planned things so they didn't have to, in addition their NSA-antagonist counterparts try to foil them by either attempting to force them into a situation where the only obvious way out is through taking an innocent life forcing them to be especially clever or overtly threatening innocent lives to get the "terrorists" to negotiate with them.
It's kinda a subversion of the real life and movie stereotypes of "terrorists", and somehow this all couldn't stop throbbing the memory of those two shows. I'm not sure why actually, it's kinda ironic that Lyberta would remind me of that xD
l.
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That anime sounds intriguing I will check it out. On Apr 25, 2017 1:54 PM, "John Luke Gibson" eaterjolly@gmail.com wrote:
On 4/25/17, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 9:21 AM, John Luke Gibson eaterjolly@gmail.com wrote:
Well the problem with that truism unfortunately is that in this situation that particular use of the word "problems" is tooo abstract. Ultimately, what that could mean is too many different things. When a system's components are damaging each other simultaneously, who gets to decide which one's the problem?
one man's "terrorist" is another man's "freedom fighter"... and the West *might* actually be decadent after all...
Exactly!.. This whole conversation can't get me to stop thinking about the anime "Terror in Resonance" or the american tv show "the pretender" off of which that anime is based. Main protagonists were terrorists (and freedom fighters) in every possible sense except ironically they refused to kill (anyone) and methodically planned things so they didn't have to, in addition their NSA-antagonist counterparts try to foil them by either attempting to force them into a situation where the only obvious way out is through taking an innocent life forcing them to be especially clever or overtly threatening innocent lives to get the "terrorists" to negotiate with them.
It's kinda a subversion of the real life and movie stereotypes of "terrorists", and somehow this all couldn't stop throbbing the memory of those two shows. I'm not sure why actually, it's kinda ironic that Lyberta would remind me of that xD
l.
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On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 1:10 PM, Lyberta lyberta@lyberta.net wrote:
again, for the countless time. I've spent years living in fear that police will find me, but in the end I was the one who asked to be found.
well i don't know about you, but i found this story to be quite touching that you were willing to express it publicly, and also that it was quite poetic. this list _does_ seem to attract some far-out people :) i remember a friend who has studied neuroscience and the brain for a long time (his name's wai tsang - very interesting character), telling me that the dividing line between insanity and genius is very very thin (and stems from a genetic / neurochemistry basis).
anyway: i have a rule which i am required to follow (chris i'm partly addressing what you wrote, appreciated as it was that you wrote it) - i can only answer *questions*. i didn't see any questions in what you wrote (strange and poetic as it is) so won't tell you to "go get help" not least because you've probably already found that most psychiatrists and the drugs they want to shove at you are clearly pretty frickin useless.
so, anyway: if you want to ask questions, feel free ok? or also discuss software libre and hardware :) you're doing ok, lyberta.
l.
On 04/24/2017 02:10 PM, Lyberta wrote:
[…]
But I never gave up. As long as I'm alive, I want to kill people. If I get a gun and go on a killing spree, I would be the life worth living.
[…]
I’d suggest that you do some science to improve understanding of your condition or that you help free software.
I mean, if nothing at all matters, then you can just as well live on and do something that brings knowledge or enables others to do so.
If something matters, enabling you and society in general to gain knowledge seems likely to help that cause that matters.
Besides, sometimes I’m angry and then I don’t trust myself to do the right thing, so I better not do anything and instead wait until I feel better. Your condition is of course far worse, but knowing when to trust oneself to make decisions seems important to me.
Regards, Florian
@ Everyone, thanks for your replies. I expected something along the lines of "Go kill yourself, you useless piece of shit" and be banned from this list. That's how it usually went.
On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 4:10 PM, Lyberta lyberta@lyberta.net wrote:
@ Everyone, thanks for your replies. I expected something along the lines of "Go kill yourself, you useless piece of shit" and be banned from this list. That's how it usually went.
nehh. what would that achieve?
...not to mention, I'd like to think we're all better than that...
We certainly should be -- *everyone* should be better than that. Basic common human decency at work, you know?
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 6:25 AM, Lyberta lyberta@lyberta.net wrote:
Bill Kontos:
No, don't worry. I don't call names on anyone. As RMS said, I'm not glad that he died, but I'm glad that he's gone. I believe in the value of
human
life above all else. It would be immoral( imo) to apply crude logic to this. I do not celebrate the death of any human being no matter how
savage
or harmful that person might have been to humanity. And I sure won't celebrate Linus' death because you might hate him but it won't change the fact that we 100% rely on his work and we don't know how his death could affect future development of linux and free drivers in general.
There is a line that you may cross after which there is almost no return. If the whole world is extremist and fascist, then you fix it with extremism and terrorism. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind but by that point you don't care. You've given up on life. You want blood. You keep the last bullet for yourself. You choose free software so that intelligence agencies can't spy on your activity. So that they are unaware of your plan that you've been plotting for the most of your life. So that you are free from belief, trust and law. You never forget and you never forgive. You are anonymous. You are the judge, jury and executioner.
...
Fuck. I hate this world, I hate myself. There go 2 hours without suicide thoughts.
And anyway something that is not widely known: when arm netbooks started becoming a thing OEMs were putting linux on them( of course). Microsoft
saw
a very threatening market emerging and raged hell upon them that if they kept doing this the sales of their other models would suffer due to them removing the OEM discount on the windows license. After that they
proceeded
to change the model so instead of charging per machine they charge per model. So basically even if you buy e.g. a Dell Lattitude with Ubuntu preinstalled and then wipe it and replace it with an FSF approved distro YOU ARE STILL PAYING THE WINDOWS LICENSE. Now some people might disagree with me, but for me libre software is a war against oppression and is directly competing with microsoft etc( disagree as in that we do not compete but exist to fulfeel our own needs). So just for this reason, if you need to buy an x86 computer and a libreboot model is not an option it is better to buy a system76 instead of e.g. a dell or a thinkpad and then install gnu/linux on it.
Interesting observation. I have bought Dell laptop with Ubuntu preinstalled as it was the only model with GNU/Linux distro I could find quickly.
Anyway I guess there is also another big difference for me: Some people might think it is ok to have a binary blob e.g. on the firmware for their wifi card as long as you don't interact with it via userland and the OS
and
the applications are libre. I'm on the exact opposite position: I
consider
blobs and an operating system that limit or obscure my access to hardware to be of the most unethical nature and less so the programs themselves.
Yes, the closer the program to the hardware, the worse it is if it's non-free. Therefore, proprietary BIOS/UEFI and kernel blobs are the worst.
I am not e.g. buying nvidia hardware, even though it's the only 100% libre gpu with 3d accel. I don't care. I'd much rather support amd in their free driver efforts and instead hope that someone will pick the fact that they do not need to write any gallium3D stuff but just reverse engineer the (small) blobs that still exist, resulting in a much easier way to write a 100% libre driver compared to nuveau.
I have AMD CPU+GPU or APU on most of my PCs. I've heard a lot of bad stuff about Nvidia. But now AMD Ryzen CPUs contain PSP backdoor. And my suspicion is that they've intentionally shipped faulty CPUs which lock up during FMA instruction so that they can plant another NSA backdoor into the microcode update.
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
I'm a college student on medicine. I haven't given up on life yet. And I don't believe in the an eye for an eye idea. And besides no, the entire world is not extremist. Not at all. There are people who care about freedom and share the same values as you do. And the free software movement is constantly progressing. At the end of the day for most people their computer does not define their lives( or at least they think so). It's just another tool to do something. But today, when a computer is basically embedded in everything, people start to realise the problem and understand how important it is. So now we have the best opportunity we ever had to make the libre community big enough so that it is much more viable with much more options. Rms and the fsf did the big mistake of not focusing on libre hardware early because it used to be easier to liberate a proprietary piece of hardware. But now we are slowly recovering from that( and eoma is part of that effort). So please, don't have suicidal thoughts, there is still light in this world :)
arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk
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Allan Mwenda -
Bill Kontos -
Christopher Havel -
Hrvoje Lasic -
John Luke Gibson -
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton -
Lyberta -
pelzflorian (Florian Pelz) -
zap