-------- Original Message -------- From: Allan Mwenda allanitomwesh@gmail.com Apparently from: arm-netbook-bounces@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Linux on small ARM machines arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] firefly 3399 all source software disclosed? Date: Tue, 09 May 2017 08:24:02 +0300
Quick give this man $150K for a libre CPU
On 8 May 2017 18:43:07 GMT+03:00, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 4:27 PM, ronwirring@safe-mail.net wrote:
Best knowledge is, that new intel and amd processors cannot be reverse engineered. What in regard of the latest mali gpus? If you have the money, they can be reverse engineered?
yes. about $150k would do it. but the question is, really: what would happen if you did? and, what else could you do with the same money? well, with the same money it would be possible to make our own libre processor, with enough extensions to be able to do 3D graphics *without* paying anyone a cent. any company tries to claim patent royalties, all that happens is a search is made on their "claims", for anything similar that has prior art. if it's another company, guess what? we notify that other company and watch the fireworks... l. arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
-- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
How can you make an arm gpu for 150000usd? How would you use it? Would you put it additionally on a bord and not use the gpu located on the processor socket? If you reverse engineer the latest mali gpu, what you hold against it is, that when next version of an arm socket is for sale it will have a new mali gpu and require a new reverse engineering? Lets say 50000 people would buy the filrefly rk3399. Same people would pay 3eu each for reverse engineering the gpu. Then we would have a source code arm computer? It takes a lot of coordination to provide gnulinux distributions I assume. It is unfortunate people are not able to coordinate such that we can get source code hardware.
On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 5:13 PM, ronwirring@safe-mail.net wrote:
How can you make an arm gpu for 150000usd?
you don't. ARM is a registered trademark, and copying what they're doing is asking for trouble.
instead you take one of the "open gpus" or parts of them and use that. there's several i've been tracking: MIAOW, Nyuzi, the ORSOC graphics accelerator - there's surprisingly quite a lot out there.
How would you use it?
it would be on the same silicon, on the same memory bus as the RISC-V 64-bit core. anything else is too power-hungry.
Would you put it additionally on a bord and not use the gpu located on the processor socket?
no.
If you reverse engineer the latest mali gpu, what you hold against it is, that when next version of an arm socket is for sale it will have a new mali gpu and require a new reverse engineering?
correct. so whatever you get it's guaranteed to be "old". this is the sad fact of reverse-engineering: all that effort, with *no guarantee of success*.... just to get something that's years out-of-date.
Lets say 50000 people would buy the filrefly rk3399. Same people would pay 3eu each for reverse engineering the gpu. Then we would have a source code arm computer?
no. ARM has acted so unethically in slandering luc verhaegen and blackmailing companies that pay him that i am not interested in supporting their business any more than is absolutely necessary.
It takes a lot of coordination to provide gnulinux distributions I assume.
yes. a _lot_. however amazingly people are actually doing just that... even on risc-v where there isn't yet even any actual hardware.
It is unfortunate people are not able to coordinate such that we can get source code hardware.
it's still quite a young area of focus.
l.
Hi Luke On the topic of GPU's have you seen this? https://github.com/etnaviv/etna_viv Seems to be a libre driver for Vivante GPU's
On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 7:26 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 5:13 PM, ronwirring@safe-mail.net wrote:
How can you make an arm gpu for 150000usd?
you don't. ARM is a registered trademark, and copying what they're doing is asking for trouble.
instead you take one of the "open gpus" or parts of them and use that. there's several i've been tracking: MIAOW, Nyuzi, the ORSOC graphics accelerator - there's surprisingly quite a lot out there.
How would you use it?
it would be on the same silicon, on the same memory bus as the RISC-V 64-bit core. anything else is too power-hungry.
Would you put it additionally on a bord and not use the gpu located on
the processor socket?
no.
If you reverse engineer the latest mali gpu, what you hold against it
is, that when next version of an arm socket is for sale it will have a new mali gpu and require a new reverse engineering?
correct. so whatever you get it's guaranteed to be "old". this is the sad fact of reverse-engineering: all that effort, with *no guarantee of success*.... just to get something that's years out-of-date.
Lets say 50000 people would buy the filrefly rk3399. Same people would
pay 3eu each for reverse engineering the gpu. Then we would have a source code arm computer?
no. ARM has acted so unethically in slandering luc verhaegen and blackmailing companies that pay him that i am not interested in supporting their business any more than is absolutely necessary.
It takes a lot of coordination to provide gnulinux distributions I
assume.
yes. a _lot_. however amazingly people are actually doing just that... even on risc-v where there isn't yet even any actual hardware.
It is unfortunate people are not able to coordinate such that we can get
source code hardware.
it's still quite a young area of focus.
l.
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 8:04 AM, Allan Mwenda allanitomwesh@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Luke On the topic of GPU's have you seen this? https://github.com/etnaviv/etna_viv
yeahyeah i have.
Seems to be a libre driver for Vivante GPU's
it is. the problem with vivante is that their *own* proprietary driver is so shit that the entire reputation of vivante's technology has been shot to shit.
i spoke with one fabless semiconductor company, urging them to use etnaviv: unfortunately my contact used the word "vivante" when talking to the engineer, who told my contact "it's shit. it keeps crashing. so we won't use it".
whoopsie...
l.
Oh that sux Is the gpu itself fairly capable though?
On 10 May 2017 10:12:57 GMT+03:00, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 8:04 AM, Allan Mwenda allanitomwesh@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Luke On the topic of GPU's have you seen this? https://github.com/etnaviv/etna_viv
yeahyeah i have.
Seems to be a libre driver for Vivante GPU's
it is. the problem with vivante is that their *own* proprietary driver is so shit that the entire reputation of vivante's technology has been shot to shit.
i spoke with one fabless semiconductor company, urging them to use etnaviv: unfortunately my contact used the word "vivante" when talking to the engineer, who told my contact "it's shit. it keeps crashing. so we won't use it".
whoopsie...
l.
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