ok, soo...
i've been following the updates to USB3 (10 gigabit speeds now with USB 3.1). in combination with:
* the development of both the tablet and the laptop not having room for an ethernet port * the development of lower-cost SoCs not really having ethernet * the fact that the ethernet components cost around $2 when the SoCs themselves are around $2 to $4
... i'm coming to the conclusion that Ethernet should be removed, and the 9 lines used to
* increase the USB3.0 allocation (4 wires) to USB 3.1 (8 wires) * this would leave 5 spare pins for GPIO. * at least two of those should be EINT-capable GPIOs
this would make it possible to redesign the tablet PCB to a more "standard" one - removing the need for the I2C GPIO chip for example.
if there are any products that need ethernet, it can be done as a USB2 or USB3 compliant external IC.
the IC3128 PCB can be reduced down to around a $12 BOM, the EOMA68-A20 PCB can be reduced by a further $2.50.
any thoughts or objections, much appreciated the input.
l.
Depend really on your target market. For any application that your product need to be any kind of server ethernet is kind of better, more relaible compared to wifi.
If your target audience is not that kind of application, or at least not in majority I guess you got it right. Just question any kind of paradigm.
Another angle is that at one moment you have to stop developing and ship product, even if not perfect. Again, you decide.
On Thursday, September 3, 2015, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
ok, soo...
i've been following the updates to USB3 (10 gigabit speeds now with USB 3.1). in combination with:
- the development of both the tablet and the laptop not having room
for an ethernet port
- the development of lower-cost SoCs not really having ethernet
- the fact that the ethernet components cost around $2 when the SoCs
themselves are around $2 to $4
... i'm coming to the conclusion that Ethernet should be removed, and the 9 lines used to
- increase the USB3.0 allocation (4 wires) to USB 3.1 (8 wires)
- this would leave 5 spare pins for GPIO.
- at least two of those should be EINT-capable GPIOs
this would make it possible to redesign the tablet PCB to a more "standard" one - removing the need for the I2C GPIO chip for example.
if there are any products that need ethernet, it can be done as a USB2 or USB3 compliant external IC.
the IC3128 PCB can be reduced down to around a $12 BOM, the EOMA68-A20 PCB can be reduced by a further $2.50.
any thoughts or objections, much appreciated the input.
l.
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On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 2:28 PM, Hrvoje Lasic lasich@gmail.com wrote:
Depend really on your target market. For any application that your product need to be any kind of server ethernet is kind of better, more relaible compared to wifi.
well, USB3 ethernet is going to be reliable (and fast). even USB 3.0 is 5gbit/sec and GbE is 1gb/sec. and i had to take off SATA because it was adding extra cost.
If your target audience is not that kind of application, or at least not in majority I guess you got it right. Just question any kind of paradigm.
it's not the majority, for sure.
Another angle is that at one moment you have to stop developing and ship product, even if not perfect. Again, you decide.
yehh very true :)
On Thursday, September 3, 2015, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
ok, soo...
i've been following the updates to USB3 (10 gigabit speeds now with USB 3.1). in combination with:
- the development of both the tablet and the laptop not having room
for an ethernet port
- the development of lower-cost SoCs not really having ethernet
- the fact that the ethernet components cost around $2 when the SoCs
themselves are around $2 to $4
... i'm coming to the conclusion that Ethernet should be removed, and the 9 lines used to
- increase the USB3.0 allocation (4 wires) to USB 3.1 (8 wires)
- this would leave 5 spare pins for GPIO.
- at least two of those should be EINT-capable GPIOs
this would make it possible to redesign the tablet PCB to a more "standard" one - removing the need for the I2C GPIO chip for example.
if there are any products that need ethernet, it can be done as a USB2 or USB3 compliant external IC.
the IC3128 PCB can be reduced down to around a $12 BOM, the EOMA68-A20 PCB can be reduced by a further $2.50.
any thoughts or objections, much appreciated the input.
l.
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-- Hrvoje Lasić Vulpes d.o.o. Gračanska 120a 10000 Zagreb Croatia tel +385 1 6152 706 tel +38598 450 603 lasich@gmail.com hrvoje@vebbu.co www.vebbu.co
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On Thu, 3 Sep 2015 15:09:14 +0100 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 2:28 PM, Hrvoje Lasic lasich@gmail.com wrote:
Depend really on your target market. For any application that your product need to be any kind of server ethernet is kind of better, more relaible compared to wifi.
well, USB3 ethernet is going to be reliable (and fast). even USB 3.0 is 5gbit/sec and GbE is 1gb/sec. and i had to take off SATA because it was adding extra cost.
I'll believe when I see it. So far seen zero reliable USB ethernet adapters.
The lack of native ethernet and sata puts me out, but perhaps I represent the small minority - get a product out, and then work on revisions for the curmudgeons ;)
- Lauri
On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 4:20 PM, Lauri Kasanen cand@gmx.com wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2015 15:09:14 +0100 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 2:28 PM, Hrvoje Lasic lasich@gmail.com wrote:
Depend really on your target market. For any application that your product need to be any kind of server ethernet is kind of better, more relaible compared to wifi.
well, USB3 ethernet is going to be reliable (and fast). even USB 3.0 is 5gbit/sec and GbE is 1gb/sec. and i had to take off SATA because it was adding extra cost.
I'll believe when I see it. So far seen zero reliable USB ethernet adapters.
USB2 or USB3? USB2 i am keenly aware has been price-pushed so low it's really quite ridiculous. the end-result is that, yes, USB2 SATA and USB2 Eth dongles are... fun. there was word a few years ago that the Genesys Logic USB2-SATA IC needed a "hard reset" on a regular basis, it would crash so badly.
but, honestly, USB2 is only 480mbit/sec - trying to saturate that with either GbE or even 30% of SATA-II bandwidth is... not going to end well, given that USB2 is a "cooperative" bus.
USB3 i have much more hope for.
The lack of native ethernet and sata puts me out, but perhaps I represent the small minority - get a product out, and then work on revisions for the curmudgeons ;)
well EOMA68 is designed to be a decade-long standard. so it's all-or-nothing, here. i'd need to work on a totally different standard, and a totally different package. well, that's the plan, anyway :)
l.
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