Lyberta:
Couple of points that got my attention. They say Linux instead of GNU/Linux. Open source instead of Free/Libre Software. They also mentioned Ubuntu. This was enough to me to stop having any respect for them. At least based on that post.
While I understand what you are saying I don't see how having one of the most Linux friendly laptop manufacturers making a laptop based on the EOMA68 standard would be a bad idea. Let's say hypothetically, they decided to make the most awesome modular EOMA68 laptop possible, dual usb-c 3.1 and the works. Even if they did ship the system with a CPU card that was running Ubuntu on it, the whole EOMA68 standard works on the premise that if you can plug it in, it will work. Therefore, couldn't you just swap out out the CPU card and put any other compatible EOMA68 CPU card in there to enjoy the benefits of a well designed laptop and run your preferred distro instead?
I understand that Ubuntu isn't your distro of choice (it isn't mine either) however, I think that there aren't many Linux friendly computing companies out there, let alone those that don't sell computers running anything other than Linux. I think that it is certainly important to have principles and to stick to them when possible however, when there seems to be as much common ground between what we want to accomplish and what they want to accomplish I am thinking it might be better to at least try working together than to hunt around for reasons to be divisive.
Allan Mwenda:
Well i dunno, system76 would want to make the fastest card not necessarily the freest.
I'm not so sure about this. I get the impression from reading some of their blogs and whatnot that they spend quite a bit of time and effort vetting the particular components they are putting into their systems to guarantee compatibility with their Linux distribution of choice. So while I do think they put some degree of importance into making sure that their systems have good performance, I do think they are aware of what having upstream driver support means for system components. I would agree that they would probably want to get the best performance out of a CPU card that they could however, I don't think that they would be too keen to do so at the cost of selecting a chip that didn't have some degree of upstream support.
l:
i sort-of thought about this overnight, and i think you're right, allan. the hardware they're selling is typically mid to high-end x86 hardware [plus yes they talk about ubuntu] something like EOMA200 would be a much better bet... but then so would many of the other (industrial) modular standards for their needs.
I suppose I still don't see the harm in bringing the EOMA68 concept up to them. The worst they could say is that they aren't interested. However, they could potentially be a pretty good ally. Also, I did notice that in the past few months they added a 96 core arm server to their lineup:
https://system76.com/servers/starling
Which means to me that they aren't completely wedded to solely x86 hardware. Even with their tendency to build higher end laptops and systems I think that an EOMA68 based laptop could easily exist within their line-up as an upgradable chromebook alternative (something priced in the $250-500 range). That would allow them to test the EOMA68 waters while at the same time allow them to build on and expand their higher-end line of x86 systems as well.
I guess all I am trying to say is, that we won't know what a person or a company will do until we ask the question.
While I understand what you are saying I don't see how having one of the most Linux friendly laptop manufacturers making a laptop based on the EOMA68 standard would be a bad idea. Let's say hypothetically, they decided to make the most awesome modular EOMA68 laptop possible, dual usb-c 3.1 and the works. Even if they did ship the system with a CPU card that was running Ubuntu on it, the whole EOMA68 standard works on the premise that if you can plug it in, it will work. Therefore, couldn't you just swap out out the CPU card and put any other compatible EOMA68 CPU card in there to enjoy the benefits of a well designed laptop and run your preferred distro instead?
Well if they ship Ubuntu, there are probably tons of hardware parts that require proprietary blobs to work. They will need a very different strategy to make sure that 100% libre EOMA68 cards will work with all hardware. I'd want them to release a RYF-certified desktop to see if they are up to our standards.
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 4:57 PM, Lyberta lyberta@lyberta.net wrote:
While I understand what you are saying I don't see how having one of the most Linux friendly laptop manufacturers making a laptop based on the EOMA68 standard would be a bad idea. Let's say hypothetically, they decided to make the most awesome modular EOMA68 laptop possible, dual usb-c 3.1 and the works. Even if they did ship the system with a CPU card that was running Ubuntu on it, the whole EOMA68 standard works on the premise that if you can plug it in, it will work. Therefore, couldn't you just swap out out the CPU card and put any other compatible EOMA68 CPU card in there to enjoy the benefits of a well designed laptop and run your preferred distro instead?
Well if they ship Ubuntu, there are probably tons of hardware parts that require proprietary blobs to work. They will need a very different strategy to make sure that 100% libre EOMA68 cards will work with all hardware. I'd want them to release a RYF-certified desktop to see if they are up to our standards.
the rules are very clear: parts which require proprietary firmware must be removable, replaceable and their removal *not* interfere with the operation of the machine.
for example: a proprierary USB DRM "dongle" which requires a proprietary application, the lack of which prevents and prohibits operation of the machine, or its video replay, or... anything at all, is prohibited (or, at least: won't receive Certification).
if they were to make a card which required proprietary firmware, that's up to them: the *base* unit is *required* to be fully functional and compliant with the EOMA68 v1 spec with any *other* Card.
so it's all good, either way.
l.
On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 11:04:07PM -0700, Mike Leimon wrote:
I understand that Ubuntu isn't your distro of choice (it isn't mine either)
It isnt a question of whether Ubuntu is my distro of choice. Distros can be replaced.
The real question is whether it requires proprietry devce drivers.
Did they use Ubuntu becaus of proprietary device drivers?
Or because it happens to be one of the most popular distros around?
I've been told Ubuntu has licenced proprietary software.
I've been told Ubuntu has no proprietary device drivers. If that's true, being able to run Ubuntu indicates some measure of long-term safety, if not libre/freedom.
I'm not sure what to believe.
-- hendrik
On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 5:04 PM, Hendrik Boom hendrik@topoi.pooq.com wrote:
On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 11:04:07PM -0700, Mike Leimon wrote:
I understand that Ubuntu isn't your distro of choice (it isn't mine either)
It isnt a question of whether Ubuntu is my distro of choice. Distros can be replaced.
The real question is whether it requires proprietry devce drivers.
Did they use Ubuntu becaus of proprietary device drivers?
Or because it happens to be one of the most popular distros around?
I've been told Ubuntu has licenced proprietary software.
usually what it is is that ubuntu offers "convenience" by providing all of the proprietary WIFI drivers and anything else they can get their hands on, *completely* undermining the *entire* purpose of the software libre ethical objectives.
l.
Ubuntu is proprietary, at the kernel as well as DE and codecs (Amazon search anyone?) Nvidia gpus in System76 pcs run on blobs and they are dicks to noveau devs Intel Wi-Fi. Take a guess about iwl. It would be good if system76 actually made am EOMA68 device, but I'd be surprised if they pulled it off completely libre
On 21 April 2017 19:04:33 GMT+03:00, Hendrik Boom hendrik@topoi.pooq.com wrote:
On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 11:04:07PM -0700, Mike Leimon wrote:
I understand that Ubuntu isn't your distro of choice (it isn't mine
either)
It isnt a question of whether Ubuntu is my distro of choice. Distros can be replaced.
The real question is whether it requires proprietry devce drivers.
Did they use Ubuntu becaus of proprietary device drivers?
Or because it happens to be one of the most popular distros around?
I've been told Ubuntu has licenced proprietary software.
I've been told Ubuntu has no proprietary device drivers. If that's true, being able to run Ubuntu indicates some measure of long-term safety, if not libre/freedom.
I'm not sure what to believe.
-- hendrik
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