Hi, I think this indiegogo project has a very interesting form factor.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gpd-pocket-7-0-umpc-laptop-ubuntu-or -win-10-os-laptop--2#/
I think this kind of form factor would be ideal for a new Eoma68 housing. Especially if there is an m.2 slot inside the housing for extra storage( via usb 3.1 to sata3), this would make for a really good extremely portable computer with the added bonuses of the upgradability of the eoma68 standard as well as no space wasted for active cooling( like that machine has).
This page has disappeared or been moved, do you have the correct (new) URL?
On 17 February 2017 at 13:23, HeadsUpHigh vkontogpls@gmail.com wrote:
Hi, I think this indiegogo project has a very interesting form factor.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gpd-pocket-7-0-umpc-laptop-ubuntu-or -win-10-os-laptop--2#/
I think this kind of form factor would be ideal for a new Eoma68 housing. Especially if there is an m.2 slot inside the housing for extra storage( via usb 3.1 to sata3), this would make for a really good extremely portable computer with the added bonuses of the upgradability of the eoma68 standard as well as no space wasted for active cooling( like that machine has).
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
It's on the home page:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gpd-pocket-7-0-umpc-laptop-ubuntu-or-win-...
On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Vincent Legoll vincent.legoll@gmail.com wrote:
It's on the home page:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gpd-pocket-7-0-umpc-laptop-ubuntu-or-win-...
okay i know the z8750, there are two variants, the T3 and the T4. the T4 maxes out at 8GB ram and has a vast number of pins - i forget how many but i believe it's like... 1000 or something. the pitch is ridiculously small. it's basically a seriously-complex, very compact design which will need some highly specialist engineering.
they've also used rather deceptive marketing by comparing a 1.6ghz quad-core intel atom to the top-end i3 / i5 / i7 processors used in the macbook pro series. i don't know if any of their backers have noticed that but they're highly unlikely to be impressed with the performance. mind you, the size and look of the device is great, so they may not mind.
yes, it would be awesome for it to be an upgradeable concept. the only thing is: 5mm cards in something that small means that the depth has to be increased to a minimum of around....12mm. 1mm for the case, 1.5mm for the PCB, 6mm for the Card and appx 3-4mm for the keyboard.
the type I cards (3.3mm height) were what i wanted to move to, for this kind of product design. it will require a large order in order to justify re-tooling of the PCMCIA socket to a *mid-mount* low-profile design. what can then be done is that the 3.3mm Card can sit *FLUSH* with the *BOTTOM* edge of the PCB, in a cut-out section. it then sits about 1.8mm above a 1.5mm PCB which is perfectly acceptable.
however this requires either a sponsor, or a lot of backers, or... etc. to get the tooling made.
l.
Did you see the amount of money they raised ? They are sitting at over 900k$ out of 200k$ needed originally. There is an insane market for these devices that I totally didn't expect. I know their older product which was more of a retro gaming/console thing with analog controllers was hugely successful in S. Korea. Now that thing is probably outdated for a reasonable windows experience. I can easily see this becoming a major success with the added bonus of upgradability. I really think this could work very well to the benefit of the standard. Also given that for freedom reasons we are stuck with older and cheaper SoCs that do not support 3d via f/oss drivers it also makes more sense to make a housing for a market that also has lower power expectations.
2017-02-17 16:48 GMT+02:00 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net:
On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Vincent Legoll vincent.legoll@gmail.com wrote:
It's on the home page:
laptop-ubuntu-or-win-10-os-laptop--2/pica
okay i know the z8750, there are two variants, the T3 and the T4. the T4 maxes out at 8GB ram and has a vast number of pins - i forget how many but i believe it's like... 1000 or something. the pitch is ridiculously small. it's basically a seriously-complex, very compact design which will need some highly specialist engineering.
they've also used rather deceptive marketing by comparing a 1.6ghz quad-core intel atom to the top-end i3 / i5 / i7 processors used in the macbook pro series. i don't know if any of their backers have noticed that but they're highly unlikely to be impressed with the performance. mind you, the size and look of the device is great, so they may not mind.
yes, it would be awesome for it to be an upgradeable concept. the only thing is: 5mm cards in something that small means that the depth has to be increased to a minimum of around....12mm. 1mm for the case, 1.5mm for the PCB, 6mm for the Card and appx 3-4mm for the keyboard.
the type I cards (3.3mm height) were what i wanted to move to, for this kind of product design. it will require a large order in order to justify re-tooling of the PCMCIA socket to a *mid-mount* low-profile design. what can then be done is that the 3.3mm Card can sit *FLUSH* with the *BOTTOM* edge of the PCB, in a cut-out section. it then sits about 1.8mm above a 1.5mm PCB which is perfectly acceptable.
however this requires either a sponsor, or a lot of backers, or... etc. to get the tooling made.
l.
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Bill Kontos vkontogpls@gmail.com wrote:
Did you see the amount of money they raised ? They are sitting at over 900k$ out of 200k$ needed originally. There is an insane market for these devices that I totally didn't expect. I know their older product which was more of a retro gaming/console thing with analog controllers was hugely successful in S. Korea. Now that thing is probably outdated for a reasonable windows experience. I can easily see this becoming a major success with the added bonus of upgradability. I really think this could work very well to the benefit of the standard. Also given that for freedom reasons we are stuck with older and cheaper SoCs that do not support 3d via f/oss drivers it also makes more sense to make a housing for a market that also has lower power expectations.
well, thanks to some questioning last month we worked out a way to increase (negotiate) power up to 10W, and i am working on a proposal / concept to get an 8-core 64-bit RISC-V SoC produced.
we cannot rely on the incumbent SoC manufacturers to operate in an ethical framework: they just don't understand the concept and it's not important for them. they take the easy way out because that's *more profitable*.
i think they're going to get a bit of a shock when the world's first 8-core RISC-V processor comes out, regardless of who makes it.
l.
Is that the master plan you with Allwinner you mentioned somewhere else ? I'm very interested with the idea. The mere idea that you managed to get a new SoC going on on a reasonable node despite the cost intrigues me a lot. So what about all the other ip blocks involved in the soc ? Realistically if such a small form factor wants to be successful it needs to have 3d.
2017-02-17 18:46 GMT+02:00 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net:
On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Bill Kontos vkontogpls@gmail.com wrote:
Did you see the amount of money they raised ? They are sitting at over
900k$
out of 200k$ needed originally. There is an insane market for these
devices
that I totally didn't expect. I know their older product which was more
of a
retro gaming/console thing with analog controllers was hugely successful
in
S. Korea. Now that thing is probably outdated for a reasonable windows experience. I can easily see this becoming a major success with the added bonus of upgradability. I really think this could work very well to the benefit of the standard. Also given that for freedom reasons we are stuck with older and cheaper SoCs that do not support 3d via f/oss drivers it
also
makes more sense to make a housing for a market that also has lower power expectations.
well, thanks to some questioning last month we worked out a way to increase (negotiate) power up to 10W, and i am working on a proposal / concept to get an 8-core 64-bit RISC-V SoC produced.
we cannot rely on the incumbent SoC manufacturers to operate in an ethical framework: they just don't understand the concept and it's not important for them. they take the easy way out because that's *more profitable*.
i think they're going to get a bit of a shock when the world's first 8-core RISC-V processor comes out, regardless of who makes it.
l.
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 4:52 PM, Bill Kontos vkontogpls@gmail.com wrote:
Is that the master plan you with Allwinner you mentioned somewhere else ?
no it isn't.
I'm very interested with the idea. The mere idea that you managed to get a new SoC going on on a reasonable node despite the cost intrigues me a lot.
i haven't - i'm putting in proposals and finding candidate people to work with.
So what about all the other ip blocks involved in the soc ? Realistically if such a small form factor wants to be successful it needs to have 3d.
Nyuzi and MIAOU. GPLGPU is out because... well... its designer unfortunately doesn't understand that you can't modify the GPL by adding a clause "this is GPL except if you want to use it for commercial purposes then, well, sorry, but you can't", that's *not* the GPL, it's a proprietary (closed source) license. whoops.
so, Nyuzi it is, along with MIAOU as a *separate* engine which will do OpenCL and will need to be made use of separately (in software). also great for parallel processing tasks as-is.
there will need to be a *lot* of software development - even for the hardware. the lowrisc designers aren't *actually* developing any peripherals: they're putting in what they call "minion cores" which basically do bit-banging of various GPIO pins under their control, in effect *becoming* peripherals. (if it's dedicated bit-banging, it's not really bit-banging, is it?) the nice thing is: you can literally implement any protocol you care to.
i want to have a word with them to make sure that there's some differential pairs connected to the minion cores, with variable power domains. that would make it *potentially* possible for people to either use them as an open high-speed inter-connect, or to implement various high-speed peripheral buses such as PCIe, LVDS, MIPI, eDP and HDMI - all depending on whether the minion cores can handle it and are set up to do DMA or not: just have to see.
so about the only thing that would need to be licensed (at this stage) would be DDR3 RAM interfaces. everything else is covered from opencores.org, including an LCD/VGA controller, USB2, and many others.
VP8 and VP9 are available from google with no royalties if you are going to production silicon. MP4 can easily be obtained.
l.
So from my understanding Nyuzi is for gpgpu while MIAOU is for actual rendering ? What kind of performance is reasonable to expect from this ? Would it reach something like the mali 400 mp2 ?
2017-02-17 19:03 GMT+02:00 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net:
On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 4:52 PM, Bill Kontos vkontogpls@gmail.com wrote:
Is that the master plan you with Allwinner you mentioned somewhere else ?
no it isn't.
I'm very interested with the idea. The mere idea that you managed to get
a
new SoC going on on a reasonable node despite the cost intrigues me a
lot.
i haven't - i'm putting in proposals and finding candidate people to work with.
So what about all the other ip blocks involved in the soc ?
Realistically if
such a small form factor wants to be successful it needs to have 3d.
Nyuzi and MIAOU. GPLGPU is out because... well... its designer unfortunately doesn't understand that you can't modify the GPL by adding a clause "this is GPL except if you want to use it for commercial purposes then, well, sorry, but you can't", that's *not* the GPL, it's a proprietary (closed source) license. whoops.
so, Nyuzi it is, along with MIAOU as a *separate* engine which will do OpenCL and will need to be made use of separately (in software). also great for parallel processing tasks as-is.
there will need to be a *lot* of software development - even for the hardware. the lowrisc designers aren't *actually* developing any peripherals: they're putting in what they call "minion cores" which basically do bit-banging of various GPIO pins under their control, in effect *becoming* peripherals. (if it's dedicated bit-banging, it's not really bit-banging, is it?) the nice thing is: you can literally implement any protocol you care to.
i want to have a word with them to make sure that there's some differential pairs connected to the minion cores, with variable power domains. that would make it *potentially* possible for people to either use them as an open high-speed inter-connect, or to implement various high-speed peripheral buses such as PCIe, LVDS, MIPI, eDP and HDMI - all depending on whether the minion cores can handle it and are set up to do DMA or not: just have to see.
so about the only thing that would need to be licensed (at this stage) would be DDR3 RAM interfaces. everything else is covered from opencores.org, including an LCD/VGA controller, USB2, and many others.
VP8 and VP9 are available from google with no royalties if you are going to production silicon. MP4 can easily be obtained.
l.
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 5:18 PM, Bill Kontos vkontogpls@gmail.com wrote:
So from my understanding Nyuzi is for gpgpu while MIAOU is for actual rendering ?
look them up. Nyuzi is a stand-alone full GPU. MIAOU is a *research* project that implements OpenMP and nothing more.
What kind of performance is reasonable to expect from this ?
i have absolutely no idea but an easy way to answer that is to find out how many "triangles per second" that Nyuzi can handle. MIAOU is custom parallelisable and as it's a research project the performance numbers are listed.
l.
The Nyuzi website has a demo that renders 2300 triangles at 50mhz but there isn't any mention about the frames per second so I can't get a triangles per second result.
2017-02-17 19:23 GMT+02:00 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net:
On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 5:18 PM, Bill Kontos vkontogpls@gmail.com wrote:
So from my understanding Nyuzi is for gpgpu while MIAOU is for actual rendering ?
look them up. Nyuzi is a stand-alone full GPU. MIAOU is a *research* project that implements OpenMP and nothing more.
What kind of performance is reasonable to expect from this ?
i have absolutely no idea but an easy way to answer that is to find out how many "triangles per second" that Nyuzi can handle. MIAOU is custom parallelisable and as it's a research project the performance numbers are listed.
l.
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 5:32 PM, Bill Kontos vkontogpls@gmail.com wrote:
The Nyuzi website has a demo that renders 2300 triangles at 50mhz but there isn't any mention about the frames per second so I can't get a triangles per second result.
lots of reading between the lines needed, a few more steps. find a GPU (any GPU) which has a dmo with a fps rate *and* a triangles-per-second metric, assume a linear relationship (reasonable for a first approximation) and scale up.
2300 triangles per second @ 50mhz is fantastically low btw. there's something very wrong with the demo hardware setup, and/or it's onlly using one "engine" due to limitations of e.g. the FPGA. so, that'll probably be 2300 triangles / sec @ 50mhz *per parallel GPU engine* but you'll have to investigate to confirm that.
l.
Yes it's only one core. The number of cores the final soc will have and how well they can scale is another story of course.
2017-02-18 0:52 GMT+02:00 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net:
On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 5:32 PM, Bill Kontos vkontogpls@gmail.com wrote:
The Nyuzi website has a demo that renders 2300 triangles at 50mhz but
there
isn't any mention about the frames per second so I can't get a triangles
per
second result.
lots of reading between the lines needed, a few more steps. find a GPU (any GPU) which has a dmo with a fps rate *and* a triangles-per-second metric, assume a linear relationship (reasonable for a first approximation) and scale up.
2300 triangles per second @ 50mhz is fantastically low btw. there's something very wrong with the demo hardware setup, and/or it's onlly using one "engine" due to limitations of e.g. the FPGA. so, that'll probably be 2300 triangles / sec @ 50mhz *per parallel GPU engine* but you'll have to investigate to confirm that.
l.
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
Hi, there is so much talk about other SoCs. But what about the A20? How much work is left and will it actually be shipped in April?
On Sat, Feb 18, 2017 at 5:05 AM, Lyberta lyberta@lyberta.net wrote:
Hi, there is so much talk about other SoCs.
only one: the RK3288.
But what about the A20? How much work is left
two updates stacked in the queue with crowdsupply, so i will be brief.
and will it actually be shipped in April?
very unlikely.
2.4.0 board used amphenol reverse-mid-mount connector which i learned has been discontinued. sole exclusive supplier: farnell in the UK. DDR3 2GB upgrade confirmed working. 9 samples available.
2.4.1 board used runde micro-hdmi. not ideal. only 2 samples made: both don't work: V-Cut trashed tracks right at the edge producing shorts in one and unreliability in the other.
2.7.1 board is to use the JAE DC3 mid-mount connector which is *much* better. 2.7.1 had to be done anyway (to test the DC3 connector) so 2.4.1 isn't a complete write-off.... @ $1.8k a a shot....
2.7.1 board will be done here in taiwan.
i am *not* going to production until i have a fully working pre-production set of samples. i don't care what the shipping date says: i am *NOT* going to rush ahead and produce 1,000 boards that simply... don't work. i KNOW you will trust that that's ok.
details in updates. including why i haven't been writing updates (every couple of weeks), because it's really hard to concentrate when you're sleeping for about 12 hours a day due to yet *another* round of virus(es).
l.
You need to copy and paste the entire link, the part that goes on the next line doesn't get recognized as part of the link for some reason.
2017-02-17 15:27 GMT+02:00 Russell Hyer russell.hyer@gmail.com:
This page has disappeared or been moved, do you have the correct (new) URL?
On 17 February 2017 at 13:23, HeadsUpHigh vkontogpls@gmail.com wrote:
Hi, I think this indiegogo project has a very interesting form factor.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gpd-pocket-7-0-umpc-laptop-ubuntu-or -win-10-os-laptop--2#/
I think this kind of form factor would be ideal for a new Eoma68 housing. Especially if there is an m.2 slot inside the housing for extra storage( via usb 3.1 to sata3), this would make for a really good extremely portable computer with the added bonuses of the upgradability of the eoma68 standard as well as no space wasted for active cooling( like that machine has).
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
ah, I see original broken link has:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gpd-pocket-7-0-umpc-laptop-ubuntu-or_-win...
whereas correct link has:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gpd-pocket-7-0-umpc-laptop-ubuntu-or-win-...
(so, underscore error in the original link)
Still, the product itself doesn't sound that amazing; true, there is other micro hardware on this basis, but, if you're out and about, pen & paper is still easiest to work with. Still, the beauty of EOMA68 is that we will be able to create new housings if there's a need. But as to ergonomics, I think a micro laptop lacks a certain something...
Russ Spending his 2 cents like he had cashed all his chips in already!
On 17 February 2017 at 13:41, Bill Kontos vkontogpls@gmail.com wrote:
You need to copy and paste the entire link, the part that goes on the next line doesn't get recognized as part of the link for some reason.
2017-02-17 15:27 GMT+02:00 Russell Hyer russell.hyer@gmail.com:
This page has disappeared or been moved, do you have the correct (new) URL?
On 17 February 2017 at 13:23, HeadsUpHigh vkontogpls@gmail.com wrote:
Hi, I think this indiegogo project has a very interesting form factor.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gpd-pocket-7-0-umpc-laptop-ubuntu-or -win-10-os-laptop--2#/
I think this kind of form factor would be ideal for a new Eoma68 housing. Especially if there is an m.2 slot inside the housing for extra storage( via usb 3.1 to sata3), this would make for a really good extremely portable computer with the added bonuses of the upgradability of the eoma68 standard as well as no space wasted for active cooling( like that machine has).
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
Wait what underscore, I didn't put any underscores I just copy pasted the url. it works fine on my inbox, but if I use the mailing list archive it's broken.
Anyway, the reason why I think this is cool is because it merges the use-cases of a tablet/gps with the benefits of an ultraportable with an actual keyboard that you can type on. Maybe if the screen was a little bigger they keyboard would be more useful as well. I could easily see myself bringing a 9 inch variant of this with me on holidays( I never bring my 15.6 inch laptop for example, sometimes i wish I could leave my phone behind too to completely disconnect) for e.g. watching a movie at night when camping or using it for either offline or online gps/ map usage. Couple it with a decent camera and it pretty much covers all the use cases of a high end tablet( but probably slower if it uses the A20 for example).
2017-02-17 15:50 GMT+02:00 Russell Hyer russell.hyer@gmail.com:
ah, I see original broken link has:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gpd-pocket-7-0-umpc- laptop-ubuntu-or_-win-10-os-laptop--2#/
whereas correct link has:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gpd-pocket-7-0-umpc- laptop-ubuntu-or-win-10-os-laptop--2#/
(so, underscore error in the original link)
Still, the product itself doesn't sound that amazing; true, there is other micro hardware on this basis, but, if you're out and about, pen & paper is still easiest to work with. Still, the beauty of EOMA68 is that we will be able to create new housings if there's a need. But as to ergonomics, I think a micro laptop lacks a certain something...
Russ Spending his 2 cents like he had cashed all his chips in already!
On 17 February 2017 at 13:41, Bill Kontos vkontogpls@gmail.com wrote:
You need to copy and paste the entire link, the part that goes on the
next
line doesn't get recognized as part of the link for some reason.
2017-02-17 15:27 GMT+02:00 Russell Hyer russell.hyer@gmail.com:
This page has disappeared or been moved, do you have the correct (new) URL?
On 17 February 2017 at 13:23, HeadsUpHigh vkontogpls@gmail.com wrote:
Hi, I think this indiegogo project has a very interesting form factor.
laptop-ubuntu-or
-win-10-os-laptop--2#/
I think this kind of form factor would be ideal for a new Eoma68 housing. Especially if there is an m.2 slot inside the housing for extra storage( via usb 3.1 to sata3), this would make for a really
good
extremely portable computer with the added bonuses of the
upgradability
of the eoma68 standard as well as no space wasted for active cooling( like that machine has).
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
This isn't a new idea, you've just given it a new reference. This is the page about it:
http://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/pocket_qwerty_computer/
arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk
-
Bill Kontos -
HeadsUpHigh
-
Julie Marchant -
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton -
Lyberta -
Russell Hyer -
Vincent Legoll