I wonder where they got the idea from:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38515472
http://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/uk/en/compute-card/intel-compute-card.htm...
Alain Williams addw@phcomp.co.uk writes:
I wonder where they got the idea from:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38515472
http://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/uk/en/compute-card/intel-compute-card.htm...
That's _very_ light on details, and I note that they're careful not to show the business end of the socket -- so is that the old tactic of an incumbent announcing vapourware in order to try and kill interest in a disruptive product that they would prefer not to have on the market?
Cheers, Phil.
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 6:17 PM, Philip Hands phil@hands.com wrote:
Alain Williams addw@phcomp.co.uk writes:
I wonder where they got the idea from:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38515472
http://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/uk/en/compute-card/intel-compute-card.htm...
That's _very_ light on details, and I note that they're careful not to show the business end of the socket -- so is that the old tactic of an incumbent announcing vapourware in order to try and kill interest in a disruptive product that they would prefer not to have on the market?
it'll be very interesting to see if they actually "Get It". the ice-computer team - even with $100m investment - utterly failed. the team behind olpc australia, with a $AUD 10m grant from the aus govt, failed to get it. google, with project ara, failed to get it.
so... yeah...
l.
On Thu, Jan 05, 2017 at 07:17:32PM +0100, Phil Hands wrote:
Alain Williams addw@phcomp.co.uk writes:
I wonder where they got the idea from:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38515472
http://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/uk/en/compute-card/intel-compute-card.htm...
That's _very_ light on details, and I note that they're careful not to show the business end of the socket -- so is that the old tactic of an incumbent announcing vapourware in order to try and kill interest in a disruptive product that they would prefer not to have on the market?
About 30 seconds in on the BBC video you get a quick view of the hole.
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 7:06 PM, Alain Williams addw@phcomp.co.uk wrote:
About 30 seconds in on the BBC video you get a quick view of the hole.
ah! that looks very much like Mini PCIe. which has USB and a one-lane PCIe on it, a few GPIOs and I2C. 50 pin. if that's what they've picked it's not a bad choice.
l.
On Thursday 5. January 2017 22.30.42 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 7:06 PM, Alain Williams addw@phcomp.co.uk wrote:
About 30 seconds in on the BBC video you get a quick view of the hole.
ah! that looks very much like Mini PCIe. which has USB and a one-lane PCIe on it, a few GPIOs and I2C. 50 pin. if that's what they've picked it's not a bad choice.
Mini-PCIe rang a bell, and then I suddenly remembered the following unrelated product from before the Christmas vacation:
http://globalscaletechnologies.com/p-72-marvell-espressobin.aspx
I actually found it via here, originally:
https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Marvell/ESPRESSOBin
Which may mean that some of the Debian-on-ARM people are familiar with it. The Mini-PCIe connection is that this board actually supports that interface along with SATA and multiple network ports, which is pretty unusual for a low-cost single board computer.
What might be more interesting in the context of EOMA68 or related standards is the SoC, the Armada 3700:
https://github.com/MarvellEmbeddedProcessors/main/wiki/Armada-3700
Despite very odd usage of the word "proprietary" on that page, it appears that the documentation and software is pretty transparent, although I haven't dug into any of this myself.
Sorry if this is tangential or got mentioned before!
Paul
ha! there a surprise... of course the bbc only report an idea when big $corp also decided to do it too. hump!
though the presenters still dont get it...
i get the smartphone crowd that what to use there smartphone as a computer card. thats ok, with pass-though cards and docks, they can/could if only the smartphone software stack wasn’t full of doom. where to get new software feature, instead of sustainable apt-get upgrade, its buy another new phone.
they only slightly touched on the possibilities. intel played safe and avoided the why would the consumer want it explanation battle and just say for now its for iot.
one thing to note is the picture of the card with a credit card underneath to give instant idea of size. nice touch.
also someone thought about how hard it is to say compter card to they removed the "r" from compute(r). does make it easier to say...
sharp is a partner, does that mean a new handheld device(housing) from sharp?
On January 5, 2017 6:38:10 PM GMT+01:00, Alain Williams addw@phcomp.co.uk wrote:
I wonder where they got the idea from:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38515472
http://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/uk/en/compute-card/intel-compute-card.htm...
It's astonishing... there are so many similarities it can't be a coincidence. They just saw a new market and feeled they should be in.
Intel is able to promote their products on a different scale but I do think eoma68 can make it's way to the general public anyway. Having a good community making it easy to use for the lambda user can make a difference (just like there are Windows users switching to GNU/Linux everyday because they met a friendly and open community online).
On Fri, Jan 06, 2017 at 01:29:19AM +0100, raphael.melotte@gmail.com wrote:
On January 5, 2017 6:38:10 PM GMT+01:00, Alain Williams addw@phcomp.co.uk wrote:
I wonder where they got the idea from:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38515472
http://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/uk/en/compute-card/intel-compute-card.htm...
It's astonishing... there are so many similarities it can't be a coincidence. They just saw a new market and feeled they should be in.
Intel is able to promote their products on a different scale but I do think eoma68 can make it's way to the general public anyway. Having a good community making it easy to use for the lambda user can make a difference (just like there are Windows users switching to GNU/Linux everyday because they met a friendly and open community online).
It has hit /. just when I have 15 mod points -- which expire soon, get posting:
https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/17/01/05/2049258/intels-compute-card-is-...
Flag up interesting posts, I won't continue to look at that page.
On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 8:52 AM, Alain Williams addw@phcomp.co.uk wrote:
Flag up interesting posts, I won't continue to look at that page.
On Fri, Jan 06, 2017 at 09:07:04AM +0000, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 8:52 AM, Alain Williams addw@phcomp.co.uk wrote:
Flag up interesting posts, I won't continue to look at that page.
Modded +1 interesting
if you check 30 seconds in the connector is completely different (otherwise intel would have a Certification Mark infringment case on their hands)
Wait, how? It's a pre-existing connector. How do you have any control over Intel's use of PCMCIA?
Now if they'd *called* it EOMA68, or EOMA68-compatible, or some such... then sure.
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 1:32 PM, Jonathan Frederickson silverskullpsu@gmail.com wrote:
if you check 30 seconds in the connector is completely different (otherwise intel would have a Certification Mark infringment case on their hands)
Wait, how?
*CERTIFICATION* mark. *NOT* **TRADE**mark.
It's a pre-existing connector. How do you have any control over Intel's use of PCMCIA?
i don't. nobody does. you've misunderstood.
Now if they'd *called* it EOMA68, or EOMA68-compatible, or some such... then sure.
that's Trademark infringment, which is completely different. CERTIFICATION mark infringment is based on STANDARDS. a Trademark is based on a PRODUCT or a brand..
you cannot apply for a Trademark on a STANDARD.
you cannot apply for a Certification Mark on a PRODUCT or BRAND
you can apply for a Certification Mark on the H.264 STANDARD (if you were the copyright holder)
you cannot apply for a TRADEMARK on the H.264 STANDARD.
does that help clarify the difference?
in fact now i think about it, intel probably are actually infringing the Certification Mark by having a product that could be *CONFUSED* with EOMA68 computer cards. PCMCIA doesn't matter so much: it's on its way out.
but if intel's "compute card" can in *any way* cause people to go back to the shop and complain, "i bought this thing i don't know what it is, it looks the same, i plugged it in and it didn't work, i tried jamming it in really hard and it still didn't work" or worse, having two items on the shelves and people even REMOTELY considering that they're the same just because the size and casing is "about the right size and about the right colour", that's enough to be a CERTIFICATION mark infringment, if the CERTIFICATION mark (the standard) says "the size must be 54 x 86 x 5mm".
that's Trademark infringment, which is completely different. CERTIFICATION mark infringment is based on STANDARDS. a Trademark is based on a PRODUCT or a brand..
Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of certification marks is that, while they're related to the standards published by a given entity, the actual certification mark is the mark on the casing of the device (or on the box, or on a sticker...), and *not* the whole set of standards that must be met in order to qualify for that mark.
Furthermore, at least in the US it appears that the owner of a certification mark is not permitted to use it themselves:
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 7:01 PM, Jonathan Frederickson silverskullpsu@gmail.com wrote:
that's Trademark infringment, which is completely different. CERTIFICATION mark infringment is based on STANDARDS. a Trademark is based on a PRODUCT or a brand..
Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of certification marks is that, while they're related to the standards published by a given entity, the actual certification mark is the mark on the casing of the device (or on the box, or on a sticker...), and *not* the whole set of standards that must be met in order to qualify for that mark.
.... i believe they go hand-in-hand. i just remembered the instance of HDMI: if you want to put "HDMI" on the outside of a box, you have to go to an accredited certifier (AGC Cert for example whom i just visited a couple months back), pass some very specific tests, and *then* you can put "HDMI" on the outside.
those tests will be to ensure compliance with the HDMI standard.
ok *sigh* so intel get away with it... as long as they don't put "EOMA68" on the outside of the cases.
arse. that's gonna be a damn nuisance.
Furthermore, at least in the US it appears that the owner of a certification mark is not permitted to use it themselves:
yeah yeah, you like that? pretty funny, huh? so i can make these devices for people but i have to tell them "go put your own stickers on them, and pay $5k to a Certification Company to have the tests done".
also, ironically, how the hell am i supposed to bootstrap the initial eco-system??
duuuuh... i don't think the people who created the Certification Mark system thought of that one...
l.
Pretty hilarious how much of a direct clone that Intel card is. Imitation is the sincerest flattery I guess?
On January 6, 2017 12:07:04 PM GMT+03:00, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 8:52 AM, Alain Williams addw@phcomp.co.uk wrote:
Flag up interesting posts, I won't continue to look at that page.
https://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=10083875&cid=53615691
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--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 5:40 AM, Allan Mwenda allanitomwesh@gmail.com wrote:
Pretty hilarious how much of a direct clone that Intel card is. Imitation is the sincerest flattery I guess?
in a word... yeah :)
just got this from a friend:
-----
I sent a 'correction' to the BBC about it. Probably wouldn't hurt if other people pointed out that Intel is not the first to market with modular computing and that a crowd funded 'open source' project beat them to it. EOMA68 already exists and the very first prototype devices have been produced for desktop and laptop housings. Unlike Intel's solution this one is completely open for anybody to adopt. The video got it wrong in saying it won't be seen in desktops/laptops any time soon given that they very first housing prototypes were a laptop and desktop.
You can report errors here:
http://www.bbc.com/news/contact-us/editorial
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 6:36 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 5:40 AM, Allan Mwenda allanitomwesh@gmail.com wrote:
Pretty hilarious how much of a direct clone that Intel card is. Imitation is the sincerest flattery I guess?
in a word... yeah :)
On Sat, Jan 07, 2017 at 10:12:05AM +0000, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
Done.
I won't CC what I wrote - far better if everyone writes something different.
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 10:24 AM, Alain Williams addw@phcomp.co.uk wrote:
On Sat, Jan 07, 2017 at 10:12:05AM +0000, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
Done.
I won't CC what I wrote - far better if everyone writes something different.
yeah good call.
You can report errors here:
Good idea ! Done for me too.
I'd like to point out that Ars Technica, Gizmodo and Tech Republic also reported on Intel's Compute Card with no mention of other similar projects...
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/01/intels-compute-card-is-a-pc-that-can-...
http://www.techrepublic.com/article/ces-2017-how-the-tiny-intel-compute-card...
http://gizmodo.com/intels-incredibly-tiny-compute-card-could-soon-run-your-1...
I was originally going to suggest that maybe Intel independently came up with the same idea, but then I saw just how eerily-similar the promotional images and pitches were to EOMA68 and now I can tell its clearly copying us...
On 01/07/2017 04:12 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
just got this from a friend:
I sent a 'correction' to the BBC about it. Probably wouldn't hurt if other people pointed out that Intel is not the first to market with modular computing and that a crowd funded 'open source' project beat them to it. EOMA68 already exists and the very first prototype devices have been produced for desktop and laptop housings. Unlike Intel's solution this one is completely open for anybody to adopt. The video got it wrong in saying it won't be seen in desktops/laptops any time soon given that they very first housing prototypes were a laptop and desktop.
You can report errors here:
http://www.bbc.com/news/contact-us/editorial
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 6:36 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 5:40 AM, Allan Mwenda allanitomwesh@gmail.com wrote:
Pretty hilarious how much of a direct clone that Intel card is. Imitation is the sincerest flattery I guess?
in a word... yeah :)
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Sun, Jan 8, 2017 at 3:07 AM, ryan rrryan@tds.net wrote:
I'd like to point out that Ars Technica, Gizmodo and Tech Republic also reported on Intel's Compute Card with no mention of other similar projects...
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/01/intels-compute-card-is-a-pc-that-can-...
http://www.techrepublic.com/article/ces-2017-how-the-tiny-intel-compute-card...
http://gizmodo.com/intels-incredibly-tiny-compute-card-could-soon-run-your-1...
I was originally going to suggest that maybe Intel independently came up with the same idea, but then I saw just how eerily-similar the promotional images and pitches were to EOMA68 and now I can tell its clearly copying us...
jaezuss, you could even say that they'd been reading the crowdsupply page and the whitepaper i wrote, and literally copying some of it. the gizmodo article in particular, they're "excited that you can take your computer home with you instead of a 2lb device".
*sigh*... :)
On 01/07/2017 04:12 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
just got this from a friend:
I sent a 'correction' to the BBC about it. Probably wouldn't hurt if other people pointed out that Intel is not the first to market with modular computing and that a crowd funded 'open source' project beat them to it. EOMA68 already exists and the very first prototype devices have been produced for desktop and laptop housings. Unlike Intel's solution this one is completely open for anybody to adopt. The video got it wrong in saying it won't be seen in desktops/laptops any time soon given that they very first housing prototypes were a laptop and desktop.
You can report errors here:
http://www.bbc.com/news/contact-us/editorial
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 6:36 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 5:40 AM, Allan Mwenda allanitomwesh@gmail.com wrote:
Pretty hilarious how much of a direct clone that Intel card is. Imitation is the sincerest flattery I guess?
in a word... yeah :)
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netbook@files.phcomp.co.uk
On 6 Jan 2017, at 08:52, Alain Williams addw@phcomp.co.uk wrote:
On Fri, Jan 06, 2017 at 01:29:19AM +0100, raphael.melotte@gmail.com wrote:
On January 5, 2017 6:38:10 PM GMT+01:00, Alain Williams addw@phcomp.co.uk wrote:
I wonder where they got the idea from:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38515472
http://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/uk/en/compute-card/intel-compute-card.htm...
It's astonishing... there are so many similarities it can't be a coincidence. They just saw a new market and feeled they should be in.
I suspect this is a marketing exercise, to gauge interest in the idea. If this is an idea that made it onto some Intel marketer’s ‘good idea, let’s look at it more’ list, then EOMA68 computer cards are one step closer to being sold in supermarkets. I’m guessing, I know nobody at Intel. I do assume they are smart guys who have a pretty good hit rate at spotting these good ideas.
arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk
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Jonathan Frederickson -
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton -
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ryan