Hi,
They announced the HummingBoard recently. Its specialty is that the outer interface is rpi-compatible, but the cpu and ram can be replaced.
So while the interface is not open I believe, that's getting closer to what eoma would have been. Thought to let you know.
- Lauri
On Sun, Jul 6, 2014 at 12:07 PM, Lauri Kasanen cand@gmx.com wrote:
Hi,
They announced the HummingBoard recently. Its specialty is that the outer interface is rpi-compatible, but the cpu and ram can be replaced.
So while the interface is not open I believe, that's getting closer to what eoma would have been. Thought to let you know.
they're not, lauri - thanks for the heads up though. the system i designed is for mass-volume purposes, for where end-users may place the CPU Card in their pockets (without anti-static bags or other physical precautions). the hummingbird design is for engineers who have experience with physical protection of devices, take care of anti-static precautions and so on.
so it is very different.
l.
On Sun, 6 Jul 2014, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
On Sun, Jul 6, 2014 at 12:07 PM, Lauri Kasanen cand@gmx.com wrote:
They announced the HummingBoard recently. Its specialty is that the outer interface is rpi-compatible, but the cpu and ram can be replaced.
they're not, lauri - thanks for the heads up though. the system i designed is for mass-volume purposes, for where end-users may place the CPU Card in their pockets (without anti-static bags or other physical precautions). the hummingbird design is for engineers who have experience with physical protection of devices, take care of anti-static precautions and so on. so it is very different.
Er... what ? A specially trained engineer was never required to change a RAM module, a CPU or CPU module, or plug an ISA/PCI/AGP/PCIe card on a motherboard.
Bye, Stéphane.
On Sun, Jul 6, 2014 at 7:24 PM, Stéphane Goujet stephane.goujet@wanadoo.fr wrote:
On Sun, 6 Jul 2014, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
On Sun, Jul 6, 2014 at 12:07 PM, Lauri Kasanen cand@gmx.com wrote:
They announced the HummingBoard recently. Its specialty is that the outer interface is rpi-compatible, but the cpu and ram can be replaced.
they're not, lauri - thanks for the heads up though. the system i
designed is for mass-volume purposes, for where end-users may place the CPU Card in their pockets (without anti-static bags or other physical precautions). the hummingbird design is for engineers who have experience with physical protection of devices, take care of anti-static precautions and so on. so it is very different.
Er... what ? A specially trained engineer was never required to change a RAM module, a CPU or CPU module, or plug an ISA/PCI/AGP/PCIe card on a motherboard.
how long does it take to press a PCMCIA button and pop out the CPU Card? 2 seconds absolute maximum.
what tools does it require? none.
what special precautions are needed? none that are not the domain of common sense.
all the other examples require tools, special handling (you cannot touch the gold edges or pins), and some considerable amount of time. in the case of replacing a CPU it takes a lot of time because depending on the design the heatsink also needs to be replaced, and the paste renewed.
so it is _completely_ different, stephane.
l.
all the other examples require tools, special handling (you cannot touch the gold edges or pins),
That it is hardly true these days. Inputs are protected with 2kV ESD diodes for some time now - ever since days of the A series CMOS was learned and the B series came out (decades ago).
But it is still possible to get unprotected devices that operate at high frequency such as GaAs MOSFETs used for RF because the protection would slow it down too much.
(ESD precaution continues to be recommended for products with exposed pins because it is not 100% possible to be sure what the ESD is doing in every combination of circuit design. The strength of ESD discharge can be very different between different buildings. I remember in one tiled factory space, the discharge to any earthed equipment could send one flying.)
On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 8:52 AM, joem joem@martindale-electric.co.uk wrote:
all the other examples require tools, special handling (you cannot touch the gold edges or pins),
That it is hardly true these days. Inputs are protected with 2kV ESD diodes for some time now - ever since days of the A series CMOS was learned and the B series came out (decades ago).
when i said "put in pocket" i really meant "put in pocket". unprotected. carry it around in a handbag. give it to school kids who put it between books and then sit on the books.
SOMs simply cannot survive that kind of treatment: they are engineering boards and simply will not survive.
i demonstrate the CPU Card to people by literally banging it on the edge of a desk. as it is so light it makes a lot of noise and does no harm to it.
if you bang a SOM on the edge of a desk you are going to break off components, bend pins, destroy tracks and the gold edging will get oil and dirt from fingers as you hold them in order to bash them against the desk.
also, about the installation: imagine explaining over the telephone to your 80-year-old grandmother how to swap out the CPU of her PC.
now imagine explaining how to swap a CPU Card. "see the card on the side? press the button next to it, dear".
one of those scenarios will take two days because you will have to travel over, pick the machine up and either do it yourself or take it to the repair shop. the other may take anywhere between thirty seconds and an hour depending on your level of patience...
completely, completely different market.
l.
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eoma-* is not a dev board. you can _make_ dev boards from eoma-*. devboards like hummingboard is only, is just for you diy robot. eoma-68/cf is for your work & play & make. for most of your computing needs in a human life. completely different markets.
however eoma-* with a devboard or to call it a name that nudges towards a slightly~ different way of thinking: a improvising board, something that enables you to create, something for which a nice shiny device doesn't exist as well a computer for you robot, fireworks controller, etc.
a improvising board enables you to easily create, a dev board enables you to do x+y=z urrggh unless your a techy who likes getting into those details or the manage the maintenance job of maintaining software, waiting for a board of the right size,specs,soc when you want to upgrade it (for example your project is a diy handheld pocket computer) what a pain that all is, does not enable me to create a diy handheld pocket comptuer, enables/forces me to be a deep developer - I don't want that additional work.
so the mini desktop board is perhaps a improvise board, it's not a shiny device in it's self but it enables you to improvise and turn you tv into a media center, just stick it on the back of your tv. It doesn't have gpio but then this not for you robot. it has vga instead of lcd for flips sake. use a different improvise board that is more suitable for enabling you to create your robot. notice your using the same platform for a media center and a robot. these completely different groups err can benefit from each other, improvements made by the people who are more technical go back into the same platform.
for the first time with eoma-* it's economically viable to groups to produce a improvise board dedicated to a robot, tv media center, quardchopter, etc. this reduces the barrier to entry - the time it takes, the skills needed to make it and I guess help reduce the cost of making these things if in bigger enough numbers. also why are you building these things? is it because it cheeper then buying pre-built/existing product? well you love a improvise quardchopter eoma-* board as all you have to do is connect the motors via a plug and socket, the usb wifi dongle, cheep 3rd hand usb webcam and strap it to the (3d printed) frame - done, that was easy :D
image a load of these improvise kits or prebuilt things if the cost works out or then again why buy a per-built quardchopter (which would be more bulky than a non-prebuilt thing and so more expensive shipping) when you can print the parts and buy the electronics goodie bag and put it together and fly it within a day?! anyway imagine a occupy moment-like protest. people arrive with there 3d printers or pre printed parts and a hole crowed of newbies put a army of quardchopters together and put them to work documenting, vidioing the protest, providing internet via wifi (?) to every one. these newbies easily control it with there smartphonething thanks to the floss software thx to fantastic people who wrote it. btw the software on the eoma-* card was just "sudo apt-get install quardchopter" (you can install the quardchopter package using a gui package manger on you tablet then you swap the card into the quardchopter !) how easy and cool is that! wow :D :D
eoma-* enables you to live, work, play, create & do, oh btw using the same platform. this was a example of create.
On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 6:49 PM, Alexander Stephen Thomas Ross maillist_arm-netbook@aross.me wrote:
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eoma-* is not a dev board. you can _make_ dev boards from eoma-*. devboards like hummingboard is only, is just for you diy robot. eoma-68/cf is for your work & play & make. for most of your computing needs in a human life. completely different markets.
one of the key goals is to reduce the cost of ownership of the main part of a portable modular computer because you can just go down to the local shop, buy an off-the-shelf CPU Card and then use that as the basis for a cool electronics project.... but then when you're done with that go and sell it on ebay to grandma or a teenager for them to put android back on it and use it to run their laptop, tablet or their TV. you cannot tell me that this is even a remote possibility for SOMs.
l.
2014-07-06 19:58 GMT+02:00 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net:
On Sun, Jul 6, 2014 at 12:07 PM, Lauri Kasanen cand@gmx.com wrote:
Hi,
They announced the HummingBoard recently. Its specialty is that the outer interface is rpi-compatible, but the cpu and ram can be replaced.
So while the interface is not open I believe, that's getting closer to what eoma would have been. Thought to let you know.
they're not, lauri - thanks for the heads up though. the system i designed is for mass-volume purposes, for where end-users may place the CPU Card in their pockets (without anti-static bags or other physical precautions). the hummingbird design is for engineers who have experience with physical protection of devices, take care of anti-static precautions and so on.
so it is very different.
Indeed; The design is based on a iMX6 specfic SoM, So the HB and the Cubox-I are build around one specific type of CPU's/SoC. The OEMA SoM is CPU/SoC independent. Hence the limited set of interfaces available on a EOMA card.
Building a RPi compatible 'baseboard' that has a EOMA-68 interface is no problem, IMHO. Might even be a good idea in order to ride the 'RPi' wave.
The SolidRun "Micro-SoM" does show that a EOMA-CF with and iMX6 is possible. http://download.solid-run.com/pub/solidrun/SR-uSOM-mx6/rev-1.2_1.3/
The SolidRun "Micro-SoM" = 30x47mm A CF = 43×36
The SolidRun "Micro-SoM" exposes a lot of interfaces which are not needed on a EOMA-CF.
P.S. The Sata spec on the EOMA-CF should be booted also right?
l.
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Alexander Stephen Thomas Ross -
joem -
Lauri Kasanen -
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton -
mike.valk＠gmail.com -
Stéphane Goujet