Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl@lkcl.net> writes:
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 9:12 AM, Philip Hands <phil@hands.com> wrote:
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl@lkcl.net> writes:
if systemd is so bloated and all-encompassing that it in effect
demands *all* privileges (it doesn't, but you know what i mean), it
utterly defeats the object of having the security system in the first
place.
This appears to be another instance of you conflating the init process
with the project, but perhaps I'm misunderstanding you.
Are you claiming that systemd (the init) uses forks where sysvinit uses
execs?
i don't know how you conclude i would say that when i don't mention
sysvinit. why would there be an implication of sysvinit being
involved when it's not mentioned?
Well, if you're saying that systemd is bad, it must be bad relative to
something else since if the nearest likely alternative e.g. sysvinit does
pretty-much the same thing then you're really saying very little.
The Daily Mail will cheerfully tell you that Coffee causes cancer, which
is probably true, but only at about the same rate as pretty much
everything else one could imagine consuming, so ... no news.
i'm saying that SE/Linux's security model is based on the isolation
of exec. but, that if the sheer overwhelming number of programs being
exec'd is so huge, it becomes pretty pointless to even *have* such
isolation.
Systemd execs a lot of things by dint of it being the system's init,
does it not? This sounds almost like you're claiming that SElinux isn't
capable of modeling any implementation of the init task.
That's why I was trying to tease out something about what makes this
unique to sytemd from you. Hence the mention of sysvinit.
i provide this as a guide *without* spending the time to assess
actual instances... because it's not my job to do so. and, also, with
the sheer overwhelming number of *other* factors (all of them
individually low-probability events), when combined using
demster-shafer information theory, you don't *need* to go in-depth: to
do so is completely pointless.
basically i'm saying, phil, knocking down one skittle by spending the
time to track down one "hole" in what i say, is pointless. the entire
design and deployment of systemd is like a dam made of swiss cheese.
there simply aren't enough fingers to plug all the hundreds of
flaws... so there's little point in trying. this response (one of a
long line of reasons why i will never *ever* use systemd) is just one
response from a different angle, one that i have had at least one
person publicly express gratitude for taking the time to explain, and
one privately. who knows well enough and is old enough and ugly
enough *not* to get involved in the cluster-fuck known as systemd.
I'm not trying to knock down skittles -- I'm trying to see whether what
you're saying has any substance behind it, or is simply hand waving.
Cheers, Phil.