arm-netbook May 2017

arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk

47 participants
94 discussions

Laptop LCD Touch Pad: Display KB Layout Idea
by Alexander Ross 25 Mar '19

25 Mar '19

On the laptops lcd touch pad. Here’s a idea for a feature. When leaning new keyboard layout. Say dovrak for example. The trouble is learning where the new keys are. For me at least, one could do with a constant reminder. What if the lcd touch pad displayed the current pressed keys? Maybe on a image of the keyboard, meaning some way of representing where the key you pressed is relative to other keys. So if its the wrong one you can see where the right one is. This info is only displayed while the keyboard is in use. When the touch pad is in use it switches to a relevant display for touch pad use. As for when the user is using not the touch pad nor the keyboard? What then? display keymap? If playing video display: video controls, time left, is internet speed fast enough for this stream? etc.

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Re: [Arm-netbook] Logos
by John Luke Gibson 22 Sep '18

22 Sep '18

I would highly recommend avoiding any logos, without proper historical reference. One of the problems with traditional Linux icons, are that they are very un-iconic. It's better to be textually based, in my opinion, than to use disorienting imagery. At this point, most of the clay has already set so referencing/alluding-to other gnu projects [such as blender] wouldn't be detrimental, however ascii has a very richer history of use by "hacktivists". Referencing some historically relevant (to "hacktivism") ascii iconography either overtly or subtly, kindof more or less as a hat tip to communities which support said historical events will cause the logo a greater likelihood of being regarded as iconic. I wish I had specific examples, but possibly using cloister black font would be a subtle hat tip to anonymous for some individuals use of various letters in that font as copy-cat of L from Death Note. Another thing of note, would be that we need to be careful who we tip our hats to, to be careful of who in the future people might assume us to endorse. A font is innocuous enough, that it can be adapted later due to circumstance (should a need arise to disassociate) without damaging the recognize-ability of any logo. The universal and modular style of blender, is a good point to mimic. A solid dot in the center of the "O" would probably be a subtle enough correlation to the blender logo. This is the pattern of thinking we need in developing logos and "slogans". Thinking about what sounds catchy only correlates us with random corporate culture. We don't need to be entirely original as we have a history to fall back on. However originality might also help distinguish us from our predecessors, the last thing we want is to fail to distinguish ourselves from your neighborhood corporation. I would recommend Luke to contact Wenqing Yang a.k.a. "Yummei", using the notability of the project to attract their attention. I would like to point out that despite being a cultural figure (famous artist) in the hacktivist community they previously lauched a multi-million dollar successful indiegogo which caused them much heart ache (per their blog) over legal controversy with so-called partners and their personal admonishment that they failed to do enough. >From: Alexander Ross <maillist_arm-netbook(a)aross.me> >To: Linux on small ARM machines <arm-netbook(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk> >Cc: >Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 16:07:15 +0000 >Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] Logos >this all these efforts, got me to have a play around too. :) > > i was started having a go at one idea of letters inserting into each > other kinda like a module. > > I had put E and O in side the M. it then kinda looked like/spelled Meoo > like a cat. > So what about a darn cat logo? maybe a cat playing with a eoma68 card in > its paws? > > sry for the yet another internet cat image type of suggestion, never > thought id be making one heh.

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Re: [Arm-netbook] Logos
by John Luke Gibson 21 Sep '18

21 Sep '18

> The idea about a dot in the "O" of EOMA made me think of fonts where the > dot is in the 0 (zero) to distinguish it from O (capital letter O) As we > all are somehow computer related I would find such a design confusing. If it was really to be in honor of the modularity and progress of blender, one would want to make the "O" not really in any particular font, but to look exactly the shape blender logo, except without the flay or the color scheme: a perfect solid-color circle within another perfect circle. It wouldn't theoretically be confusing because the mark you are thinking of is a hollow circle in an oval. Letter-o'es and zeroes can only sometimes be confusing because in some fonts they are both written as vertical ovals, not just the zero. I'm not sure on the required dimensions of a certification mark, however, the solid-shape flag-esque convention I've noticed among popular one's, often seems to detract from the continuity of the design on the objects that bear them, making them seem particularly foreign and like they don't belong. The vaporwave-esque color palate which most of them choose only add to this affect, as if they themselves are trying to distance themselves on some subconscious level from their endorsements. As a side effect to this, it makes them harder to trust. Any symbolism of any significant body, displays historical awareness.. It's what tells people whether they can trust it, before reading or attempting to judge it. Therein lies the axiom, there is no such thing as an original thought, so, if by means of arbitrary work dedicated to make more concise and thoroughly plastered an announcement of what historical or cultural event may have inspired such thoughts and such work, people will then engage in the arbitrarily difficult work of judging whether the project is sincere or not. In other words, if we don't display more than necessary effort in our symbol that can be recognized with several magnitudes less effort than it took to generate, then no highly-self-valuing person will have any sane reason to take us seriously, because if they took every slightly promising project, which failed to create a Sybil-certificate reputation in this manner, then they would never find a single valuable project in their lifetime (obviously this is an exaggeration).

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Standards Organization as a Potentially Universal Free/Libre Software Developement Sustenance Model
by John Luke Gibson 23 Dec '17

23 Dec '17

Neverminding the ridiculous length of that subject line.. I just thought an interesting thought. First, a little context, (I know how rms feels about blockchains) I was investigating slock.it and thinking to myself "why don't they just make a hardware standard like eoma instead of closing their development and calling it open?" (Like, Pi-Top is [n]ever gonna release those stl files) (I realize that's a loaded 'just' cause it sounds easy, but is one of the most difficult possible) Then, it dawned on me: Lulzbot doesn't do that.. Wait, Lulzbot exclusively uses open software in their development.. Then *bam* like a boulder (nothing to do with Lulzbot): GPL-violations, improper GUI training, failing to extend using APIs/Addons, failing to bugsmash/'track-issues', failing to participate in mailing-lists and irc, failing to simply fork when development goals conflict, planned esoteric-ism and/or planned obsolescence, failure to secure clientèle data by using fully free systems (when relevant), failure to participate-in and be-aware-of public conversations about the underlining security of said systems (when relevant), failure to disclose supplychain information/identities (when relevant), failure at general transparency. All of these things traditionally go wrong with not only companies that use open source, but companies in-general. Then, it truly truly dawned on me, free software needs standards organizations as well.

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Side-Topic: Liberating PocketCHIP
by John Luke Gibson 08 Aug '17

08 Aug '17

Since it seems like a trivially simple task that for some reason no one has taken up, I would like to take the opportunity to exercise a learning experience and simultaneously benefit the community, by liberating PocketCHIP by deblobbing the source and re-compiling. Browsing the archives to see if this had been talked about before, I find it very incredibly humourous I got name dropped on the mailing list by Parobath: > Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2016 20:13:10 +0200 > From: Parobalth <parobalth(a)gmail.com> > To: arm-netbook(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk > Subject: closed-source BootROM and RYF certification > User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) > > At the forum of NextThing Chip is a thread about Chip and a > possible RYF certification. I wrote there that I think that is unlikely > to happen and linked to https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/fsf-ryf-background. > Then someone else mentioned that a closed-source BootROM is used for Chip. > Another guy with username "eaterjolly" wrote about this BootROM: "The same type of SOC is > used for the EOMA croud project which is vying for ryf-endorsement quite > openly [...]" > > You can find the forum thread here: > https://bbs.nextthing.co/t/ntc-thoughts-on-ryf-endorsement/4490 > > Because they use Discourse to power their forum which relies heavily on > JavaScript I also attach a Pdf version of the forum post. > > I wonder if the mentioned statements are correct and how it relates to > the RYF certification of the EOMA68-A20 Libre Tea card. > > kind regards > Paro Like reading that URL, I was like? didn't I start that thread? then I re-read the post and noticed I was quoted in the email xD I didn't participate in the list back then, cause I was afraid my ignorance would be spurred, of course I know that not to be true in hindsight. Feels a bit melodramatic being name dropped on a linux mailing list, usually you only see legends get mentioned by name when they aren't around xD Anywhoo, I more or less just wanted to start this thread because I wanted to know if any one could point out anything that would need be removed besides the wifi firmware. I searched the sunix-uboot repository on github for the word blob and got a few interesting hits for the code in the folder binman: https://github.com/linux-sunxi/u-boot-sunxi/search?q=blob Particularly in files mentioning the devil: "# Entry-type module for Intel Chip Microcode binary blob" I suppose this is just another aspect of mainlining, meant to be parsed out once it's discovered that there are no such blobs in the kernel, but personally I'd feel more comfortable with a script removing these sections of the code altogether. If I had been actually reading the list digests back when I could have posted more accurate information in that thread rather than just guessing. Well, I suppose I can do so now. How humorous it is though too that I've run into the same 40k file limit? Small tiny things suggesting the work of the vicissitudes of fate, much like deja vu in the matrix.

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Existential 3D Printing Moments
by Neil Jansen 21 Jul '17

21 Jul '17

Hi, I'm reaching out to Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton. I recently read your latest update post on the Crowd Supply campaign for the EOMA68, titled: "Existential 3D Printing Moments". You mentioned that you needed help and/or advice on 3d printing for manufacturing. I have a lot of very specific experience here. I ran an open source project that required us to set up a 3D printer farm for manufacturing our first run of machines. I've lived in China while trying to get our project ready for mass manufacture. I have some advice for you, if you're willing to listen. I'd prefer to chat via video or audio, as there's so much to cover, I'd get carpal tunnel typing it all out. I'd be OK with summarizing the meeting minutes here afterwards, as to not exclude anyone else. I can meet pretty much any time regardless of time zone. Let me know either way. I've been following this project for quite a while (since the Slashdot AMA years ago), and I really want you guys to succeed. I missed the crowd funding round, but would still buy a few after they're fulfilled. Send me a direct email if you're interested in chatting. njansen1 at gmail dot com

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Re: [Arm-netbook] mali gpu reverse engineering lkcl may ignore
by doark＠mail.com 23 Jun '17

23 Jun '17

On Mon, 22 May 2017 12:05:28 +0200 "mike.valk(a)gmail.com" <mike.valk(a)gmail.com> wrote: > 2017-05-22 0:06 GMT+02:00 <ronwirring(a)safe-mail.net>: > > > Because I deleted a previously email about this subject, I start a new > > email. > > Info. Lkcl said, he is not in favor of reverse engineering a mali gpu. > > Because it is about 150000eu and new gpus will emerge during the > > reverse engineering and the outcome is uncertain. > > > > I agree on his arguments. > > I assume you do not agree. > > > 150000eu is a crowd funding of 30000 people, each 5eu. I would pay an > > extra 5eu to be able to buy a source code computer. > > > > The issue with revese engineering the MALI gpu's is not justs about > money. ARM ltd. actively Seeks and destroys attempts on a OSS mail > driver. > > So that money needed is not only going to coding but is probably also > needed for legel fees and marketing against the smear and laster > campaign. > > They have already made one person's life very difficult: > http://libv.livejournal.com/ > I'd do it in a heart beat in spite of the evil people out there if I had the skills. Incidentally, couldn't you do this in an mostly automated fashion? I mean: 1. Have computer program send bits to GPU 2. Have same program read bits from EDP (or whatever), to determine result and time spend on task. 4. Have another program create a spread sheet for the in-out-time info and stats. 3. Have developer look at these and code. > > I do not know if 30000 people are interested or if they can agree on > > one board. > > > > But freeing MALI would help a lot of devices out there. So I'd trough in > some bucks. RE'ing MALI would not be for just one board. Agreed. It must be for all boards and support opengl, opencl, vulkan. > > You cannot get the mali source code faster, if you put more people on > > it? > > Finding the right minds and right amount of them working on the same > thing is a hard equation. > > You could add me to that team but my skills would be of limited use. > Adding someone of the same skill set would probably be even less > effective. > > So more money or more people is not the solutions. The right people and > the right amount is needed. > Well, I'd put ten dollars to a campaign like this without a HW reward. I'm assuming that beings that there are so many Mali GPUs and hacker boards out there that other people would also be very interested in this. What would I need to know to do this? Quick, point me to the books! No, really, I would do such a thing, I don't have a lot to loose, though for free I'd be taking my time... But still, I'd need an education. Thanks, David

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early access EOMA68 to hardware for parabola ARM maintainers?
by Andreas Grapentin 22 Jun '17

22 Jun '17

(I sent this message before, but I suspect it didn't get delivered because I wasn't subscribed to the mailing list, so here I go again.) Hello everyone, I represent the hackers in charge of maintaining the parabola ARM port. As you know, the 'libre tea' computer card will be shipped with parabola preinstalled, and we are currently working hard on getting our ARM port in shape. Unfortunately, at the moment we have two problems: a) lack of compute resources - we need some actual ARM boards of the right architecture to build - and especially test - packages b) lack of information - we don't know enough about the particularities of the EOMA68 cards to be able to tell how well our port works on them Hence my question: would be possible for us to get early access to a couple of the EOMA68 devices in advance, so that we can make sure that our ARM port is up and running when the cards are to be shipped? We are very excited about this project (many of us have actually pre-ordered cards), and we want to be able to deliver the best possible version of our GNU/Linux distribution that we can produce. Best, Andreas -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ my GPG Public Key: https://files.grapentin.org/.gpg/public.key ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: [Arm-netbook] why are notebook devices not usb?
by David Niklas 13 Jun '17

13 Jun '17

On Sat, 27 May 2017 18:56:18 +0100 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl(a)lkcl.net> wrote: > On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 6:16 PM, Christopher Havel > <laserhawk64(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Money. It's cheaper to do it that way.. > > yyep. this s pretty much.. errr... on the money > > > There's also the form factor to consider -- to an extent, there are no > > standards for laptop gadgetry because there's no way to do that. > > Different laptop sizes and shapes require differently-sized and > > -shaped crap inside. > > ... all completely optimised and customised based around what they > can get hold of, or what the reference design from intel is (which > will have specific power requirements and thermal requirements)...then > there is the constant demand for "thin-ness" which, as chris says, > means that a CUSTOM CONNECTOR gets ordered and made... and you can't > get hold of them. > > ron i wrote a long time ago when developing the tablet, about using a > single embedded controller which only costs $1, instead of putting in > a $1 USB hub, a $1.50 USB camera, a $1 USB audio IC and so on. <snip> Do you still know where your write up is? Thanks, David

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Re: [Arm-netbook] firefly 3399 all source software disclosed?
by ronwirring＠Safe-mail.net 02 Jun '17

02 Jun '17

-------- Original Message -------- From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl(a)lkcl.net> Apparently from: arm-netbook-bounces(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Eco-Conscious Computing <arm-netbook(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk> Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] firefly 3399 all source software disclosed? Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 06:01:54 +0100 > --- > crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 > > > On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 10:07 PM, <ronwirring(a)safe-mail.net> wrote: > > In a previous post, lkcl wrote the firefly rk3399 staff > > has the pcb cad files and he had no objection about firefly rejecting, > > which they have done towards me, to email the cad files. > > aiyaaa, you didn't ask them did you? it's their proprietary and confidential > business, and they're most likely under NDA with rockchip - please don't > do that, ron. > > > About lkcl's crowd funding, the mali gpu source code is > > not available. Lkcl can make the mali gpu source code > > not available, because he makes a reservation in the text in his ad. > > this is a rather confusing sentence-construction... ad... ad... ah, you > may be referring to the crowd-funding text as "advertising". that word > is reserved for businesses. this is *not* a business. > > > > About the pcb cad files, lkcl has decided they will not be > > available until lkcl decides to provide them. > > noooo, ron, most of the CAD files *are* available. the only ones that > are not are the EOMA68-A20 ones because i've invested literally tens > of thousands of dollars in their development, and if someone else goes > and clones them (particularly in china) before the project's properly > established it jeapordises the ENTIRE PROJECT. especially if they > fuck it up and get it wrong. I understand your arguments and why you made the decision. I was pointing out, that proper open source reasoning, in my opinion, would require that all data is provided. > > > > I disagree on the decision. > > tough. > > > Being open source I find it implicit that all data will be > > provided immediately. > > normally i would agree with you 100%. and in the case of the > housings those *are* 100% available. > > however in the case of the A20 PCB i have to make an exception > to not make them available *IMMEDIATELY*. > > let me be clear. they WILL be made available. is that clear? > > > > Because lkcl has made a reservation in his ad > > there is no advertising, ron. advertising is a tool utilised by > businesses. this is not a business. I have reflected on that. What I write now is not directed against you or your crowd funding. It is in general about crowd funding. It seems crowd funding is some form of workaround about buying an item. I have no knowledge about court decisions in this field. I could imagine due to consumer law, a court would rule it a common purchase. Meaning consumer rights would apply. > > > about the cad files in question he can make that choice. > > > > In the firefly rk3399' ad it says, the hardware is open source. > > that means that the software is available under libre licenses. it > does not mean that the *CAD* files for the *hardware* are available. > > > The ad is misleading and deceptive. > > ron, i do notice that you are often confused by the use of words that > potentially have multiple meanings, or that you sometimes > cross-associate words. > > in this case however you would be correct, there is the possibility > of thinking that "open source" applies *to* the hardware CAD files. > > however if they meant that, they would have used the words "open > hardware" or "libre hardware". I disagree. Firefly writes "open source hardware platform". I find my interpretation legitimate. You are not backing up your interpretation with arguments. My argument is, they say it is open source. Then everything has to be open source if no reservations are stated. > > it's a common enough mistake. > > > I have found no reservations about the mali gpu > > source code or the pcb cad files. Firefly can probably > > not email the mali gpu source code, because they do > > not have it. > > that's correct. you'd be asking them for something they don't have, > and are not legally obligated to provide even if they did. That is debatable. > > > They can email the pcb cad files because they have them. > > ron: they are in absolutely no way obligated to you to provide them. > they've used the right words, and it is *you* who is confused by their > choice of words. Again debatable. > > > > That is why I am going to demand both the mali gpu > > source code and the pcb cad files from firefly. > > ron please don't do that. you will only harm the reputation of the > free software community by doing so. I do not believe playing nice with the manufacturers will show a great rate of successes. Rather if big numbers of people would coordinated act like I do, some impact might show. There is no reason to not try both path simultaneous. Some people play nice. Other make demands. > > > If firefly does not provide the data in question, > > then I will file a complaint to kickstarter. It is unacceptable calling something open source, if it is not all open source. > > that's down to confusion on your part about wording, and it is their > choice and right as a proprietary business what they choose to release > and do not choose to release. > > you have *no right* to tell them that they *have* to release the > source code. that is down to them to learn the consequences of their > decisions. > > > > Of cource I will not mention lkcl in any form. > > don't do it, ron. you'll cause damage to the reputation of the > entire free software community, lessening the chances of companies > like Acer from wanting to work with us. You have a tendency to magnify the impact of one persons actions. Do you actually believe, that me writing manufacturers and making demands, right or wrong demands, has any impact on the situation of libre software? Do you think acer in any way takes notice? No. If half a million people in a short period of time hammered acer with demands, then there might be some impact. Previously you told me, that putting pressure on manufacturers should be done. Then I discarded what you said. I have reached to another point of view. Maybe coordinated campaigns, which are not being done now, might show some results. It can mobilize libre software people. Getting the power to have a say against manufacturers. > > l. > > _______________________________________________ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netbook(a)files.phcomp.co.uk

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