arm-netbook December 2017

arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk

30 participants
23 discussions

Re: [Arm-netbook] EOMA68 / Libre RISC-V team financing
by Joseph Lira 29 Dec '17

29 Dec '17

Luke just a little confused, are you saying if im from the first batch i wont get an eoma68 this June/July 2018? ________________________________ From: arm-netbook <arm-netbook-bounces(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk> on behalf of arm-netbook-request(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk <arm-netbook-request(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk> Sent: December 29, 2017 4:13:18 PM To: arm-netbook(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk Subject: arm-netbook Digest, Vol 89, Issue 31 Send arm-netbook mailing list submissions to arm-netbook(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to arm-netbook-request(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk You can reach the person managing the list at arm-netbook-owner(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of arm-netbook digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Libre RISC-V RV64GC SoC (mike.valk(a)gmail.com) 2. Re: EOMA68 / Libre RISC-V team financing (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton) 3. Re: Libre RISC-V RV64GC SoC (mike.valk(a)gmail.com) 4. Re: EOMA68 / Libre RISC-V team financing (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton) 5. Re: Libre RISC-V RV64GC SoC (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton) 6. Re: Libre RISC-V RV64GC SoC (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton) 7. Re: EOMA68 / Libre RISC-V team financing (Alexander Ross) 8. Re: EOMA68 / Libre RISC-V team financing (Sam Huntress) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 16:21:09 +0100 From: "mike.valk(a)gmail.com" <mike.valk(a)gmail.com> To: Eco-Conscious Computing <arm-netbook(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk> Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] Libre RISC-V RV64GC SoC Message-ID: <CAJ2nOYA8x22QQxk-VWMJ1waoA+Hhvy4bSmgY7jAp+H42CtNwfg(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" 2017-12-29 15:37 GMT+01:00 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl(a)lkcl.net>: > > On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 2:25 PM, mike.valk(a)gmail.com > <mike.valk(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> 3D. Wasn't there a PoC from some students in the open macro's? Perhaps >> those guys can be hired to refine their work? > > can you point me towards it with some clues? > I can't seem to find it at the moment. Did find this: https://github.com/VerticalResearchGroup/miaow/wiki https://github.com/jbush001/NyuziProcessor/wiki https://github.com/jbush001/NyuziProcessor/wiki/Similar-Projects Might as well be the Nyuzi one ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 15:23:35 +0000 From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl(a)lkcl.net> To: Eco-Conscious Computing <arm-netbook(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk> Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] EOMA68 / Libre RISC-V team financing Message-ID: <CAPweEDzJV3csLHTPK2ZPdzDK7qVtn=gcFd6kc2Xz9mwdB3voWg(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" --- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 2:43 PM, Julie Marchant <onpon4(a)riseup.net> wrote: > I'm not familiar with the terms "first batch" and "second batch" as it > pertains to this project. Which was the first and which was the second? the first batch was the first crowd-funded campaign: august 2016. after that, crowdsupply effectively turned the site into a "pre-order shop". none of the money from this SECOND batch has left crowdsupply's bank account. for the first batch, $175k, $25k appx is held by crowdsupply because they'll be handling world-wide shipping. $130k of the $175k went to thinkpenguin. $60k of that $130k immediately went to the factory in china. $25k is left in thinkpenguin's bank account, to deal with the laptops when we get to it. $45k of the $60k is left in mike's bank account in china and that is ENTIRELY taken up with components and PCBs for the EOMA68-A20 2.7.5 and Microdesktop 1.7. so if you're in the first batch there *is* nothing spare to refund *to* anyone. hence the question is absolutely critical because attempting to pull out money which doesn't exist and/or has been allocated for some considerable time does a LOT of damage. but, the 2nd batch? not a problem at all. l. ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 16:24:02 +0100 From: "mike.valk(a)gmail.com" <mike.valk(a)gmail.com> To: Eco-Conscious Computing <arm-netbook(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk> Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] Libre RISC-V RV64GC SoC Message-ID: <CAJ2nOYDcL3K6F1EyTkCwwB21ig73tqdK=ftb1tbgjmrPbXrgUg(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" 2017-12-29 16:21 GMT+01:00 mike.valk(a)gmail.com <mike.valk(a)gmail.com>: > 2017-12-29 15:37 GMT+01:00 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl(a)lkcl.net>: >> >> On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 2:25 PM, mike.valk(a)gmail.com >> <mike.valk(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> 3D. Wasn't there a PoC from some students in the open macro's? Perhaps >>> those guys can be hired to refine their work? >> >> can you point me towards it with some clues? >> > I can't seem to find it at the moment. AH it was the ORGFX now ORSOC I guess https://opencores.org/project,orsoc_graphics_accelerator ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 15:34:20 +0000 From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl(a)lkcl.net> To: Eco-Conscious Computing <arm-netbook(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk> Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] EOMA68 / Libre RISC-V team financing Message-ID: <CAPweEDx2_6ZSey7pKXiwj7wMbxBi3LuzxaNZAW=95tP+djAsvg(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" --- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 3:00 PM, Sam Huntress <samhuntress(a)gmail.com> wrote: > We all seem to be talking past each other and I fear we may have some > confusion about what a ponzi scheme actually is. > > In a ponzi scheme, money is taken from 'investors' under the false pretense > (lie) that it will be used to fund operations with a positive return on > investment when actually that money is just stashed and given back out to > 'investors' as a fake 'return' on their 'investment'. ... down the tree until it collapses, yes. apart from the US Federal Reserve Ponzi scheme that was cascade-created in 2007 by issuing UNREGULATED bonds a THOUSAND times larger than the entire U.S. Govt regulated market at the time and so consequently it is still in the process of collapsing, what's the largest ponzi scheme that's ever been recorded in human history? in that historically-recorded ponzi scheme, what order of magnitude of money changed hands? (ignoring the multi multi trillion dollar 2007 US Fed Res ponzi scheme) > In this case, the investments they claim to be making are almost 100% > traceable and provable. The Bitcoin ledger can be used to see which wallets > all mined bitcoins have gone to and Bitclub can use standard public/private > key signatures to verify that they own one or more of those wallets. you mean, starting e.g. from here: https://bitclubpool.com/index.php?p=stats and here: https://www.blocktrail.com/BTC/pool/bitclubnetwork > If Bitclub cannot provide this verification then they may not be > technically competent enough to make good investments. > Given that they already have your money, the best thing to do is hope that > whatever they are running (legitimate or not) holds up long enough for you > to get back what you put in. sam you underestimate the scope of what i seek to achieve here. i'm looking to leverage this so that the team of engineers can be paid for to design the RISCV-64 SoC, the eco-conscious smartphone can be paid for, and in about a year to 18 months time a foundry line of chips can be paid for - outright. i'm certainl not "looking to get back $3500" that's for sure! and *i* am not *personally* looking to get back money beyond that which is sufficient to live on: i am looking to leverage this to fund some absolutely amazing... ... AND ECO-CONSCIOUS .... ... projects. including REPLACING bitcoin. l. ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 15:35:07 +0000 From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl(a)lkcl.net> To: Eco-Conscious Computing <arm-netbook(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk> Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] Libre RISC-V RV64GC SoC Message-ID: <CAPweEDyTi=m_TvK5S-PHne9e5T0=ON+dEhSW3qh=NjTUE4Jf9w(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" --- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 3:24 PM, mike.valk(a)gmail.com <mike.valk(a)gmail.com> wrote: > 2017-12-29 16:21 GMT+01:00 mike.valk(a)gmail.com <mike.valk(a)gmail.com>: >> 2017-12-29 15:37 GMT+01:00 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl(a)lkcl.net>: >>> >>> On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 2:25 PM, mike.valk(a)gmail.com >>> <mike.valk(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> 3D. Wasn't there a PoC from some students in the open macro's? Perhaps >>>> those guys can be hired to refine their work? >>> >>> can you point me towards it with some clues? >>> >> I can't seem to find it at the moment. > > AH it was the ORGFX now ORSOC I guess > https://opencores.org/project,orsoc_graphics_accelerator yeah that's the one i found, too. that's the one - one of the ones - i want to fund. l. ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 15:37:40 +0000 From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl(a)lkcl.net> To: Eco-Conscious Computing <arm-netbook(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk> Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] Libre RISC-V RV64GC SoC Message-ID: <CAPweEDz2kV+HsYci91TDs5QtCpOqmjATAe5TGxTFCRvUcjAXkQ(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" --- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 3:21 PM, mike.valk(a)gmail.com <mike.valk(a)gmail.com> wrote: > 2017-12-29 15:37 GMT+01:00 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl(a)lkcl.net>: >> >> On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 2:25 PM, mike.valk(a)gmail.com >> <mike.valk(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> 3D. Wasn't there a PoC from some students in the open macro's? Perhaps >>> those guys can be hired to refine their work? >> >> can you point me towards it with some clues? >> > I can't seem to find it at the moment. > > Did find this: > > https://github.com/VerticalResearchGroup/miaow/wiki > https://github.com/jbush001/NyuziProcessor/wiki > https://github.com/jbush001/NyuziProcessor/wiki/Similar-Projects > > Might as well be the Nyuzi one ah yehhh! thank you for reminding me! yeah i forgot about his work, thank you. i know why i forgot it: i spoke to its developer, he said there's some severe limitations... something about how it was put together, it was never really intended to go above.... 50mhz (in an FPGA) or... something. there was a fundamental design flaw in other words. might have changed since then. but i went, "hmm, MIAOU shader engine plus ORSOC_GPU plus RISC-V core would do *really* well" l. ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 16:07:03 +0000 From: Alexander Ross <maillist_arm-netbook(a)aross.me> To: Linux on small ARM machines <arm-netbook(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk> Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] EOMA68 / Libre RISC-V team financing Message-ID: <c6daffa7-9f49-3e9a-5438-d66fbeee9726(a)aross.me> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 After recently learning how bitcoin network fees and shot up to £70 min! I asked for alts and was recommended to use dash. https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/thread/20171227.034339.c3c3053f.en.html ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 11:13:10 -0500 From: Sam Huntress <samhuntress(a)gmail.com> To: Eco-Conscious Computing <arm-netbook(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk> Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] EOMA68 / Libre RISC-V team financing Message-ID: <CANYNf9sAHK1AVM60Zv-VqMXUyRZuPsgOef-EgwzcGzqN2vOrOA(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > you mean, starting e.g. from here: > https://bitclubpool.com/index.php?p=stats > and here: > https://www.blocktrail.com/BTC/pool/bitclubnetwork Yes, exactly. The blocks they are mining are being awarded to https://blockchain.info/address/155fzsEBHy9Ri2bMQ8uuuR3tv1YzcDywd4 And blockchain.info does record those blocks as being found by Bitclub. So Bitclub does seem to have significant new BTC coming in. As long as you trust that whoever you sent money to does actually represent Bitclub, further verification does not seem necessary. I do understand that $3500 isn't exactly backbreaking for this project, it just makes me anxious to see anyone start buying in so fully to things that seem 'too-good-to-be-true' On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 10:34 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton < lkcl(a)lkcl.net> wrote: > --- > crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 > > > On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 3:00 PM, Sam Huntress <samhuntress(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > We all seem to be talking past each other and I fear we may have some > > confusion about what a ponzi scheme actually is. > > > > In a ponzi scheme, money is taken from 'investors' under the false > pretense > > (lie) that it will be used to fund operations with a positive return on > > investment when actually that money is just stashed and given back out to > > 'investors' as a fake 'return' on their 'investment'. > > ... down the tree until it collapses, yes. > > apart from the US Federal Reserve Ponzi scheme that was > cascade-created in 2007 by issuing UNREGULATED bonds a THOUSAND times > larger than the entire U.S. Govt regulated market at the time and so > consequently it is still in the process of collapsing, what's the > largest ponzi scheme that's ever been recorded in human history? > > in that historically-recorded ponzi scheme, what order of magnitude > of money changed hands? (ignoring the multi multi trillion dollar 2007 > US Fed Res ponzi scheme) > > > > In this case, the investments they claim to be making are almost 100% > > traceable and provable. The Bitcoin ledger can be used to see which > wallets > > all mined bitcoins have gone to and Bitclub can use standard > public/private > > key signatures to verify that they own one or more of those wallets. > > you mean, starting e.g. from here: > https://bitclubpool.com/index.php?p=stats > and here: > https://www.blocktrail.com/BTC/pool/bitclubnetwork > > > > If Bitclub cannot provide this verification then they may not be > > technically competent enough to make good investments. > > > > Given that they already have your money, the best thing to do is hope > that > > whatever they are running (legitimate or not) holds up long enough for > you > > to get back what you put in. > > sam you underestimate the scope of what i seek to achieve here. i'm > looking to leverage this so that the team of engineers can be paid for > to design the RISCV-64 SoC, the eco-conscious smartphone can be paid > for, and in about a year to 18 months time a foundry line of chips can > be paid for - outright. > > i'm certainl not "looking to get back $3500" that's for sure! and > *i* am not *personally* looking to get back money beyond that which is > sufficient to live on: i am looking to leverage this to fund some > absolutely amazing... > > ... AND ECO-CONSCIOUS .... > > ... projects. > > including REPLACING bitcoin. > > l. > > _______________________________________________ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netbook(a)files.phcomp.co.uk > ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook ------------------------------ End of arm-netbook Digest, Vol 89, Issue 31 *******************************************

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Re: [Arm-netbook] EOMA68 / Libre RISC-V team financing
by Julie Marchant 28 Dec '17

28 Dec '17

gnu taler seems sufficient to me. We don't need crypto currency, a way to anonymously and securely transfer actual money should do just fine. -- Julie Marchant https://onpon4.github.io On Dec 28, 2017 11:32 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl(a)lkcl.net> wrote: > > On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 3:07 PM, Sam Huntress <samhuntress(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Currently Bitcoin is an insane gold-rush bubble that is frivolous and > > wasteful but it has the potential to balance out into the secure, > > distributed, democratized digital currency it was designed to be and I > > think that is something worth spending energy on. > > indeed... would it not be worthwhile, do you think, to leverage > *this* opportunity... such that the funds were available to *create* > an eco-responsible coin that is *properly* libre, properly > peer-to-peer distributed, and so on? > > look at what i put out only a few weeks ago, we analysed at least two > alt-coins that, whilst the people behind it had their hearts in the > right places they *still* did not fundamentally get it. > > if we don't do this "properly" then those alt-coins will be all that > is available... oh and bitcoin. is that something we really really > want? > > gone midnight here (julie) i'll write a more complete reply tomorrow. > > l. > > _______________________________________________ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netbook(a)files.phcomp.co.uk

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Standards Organization as a Potentially Universal Free/Libre Software Developement Sustenance Model
by John Luke Gibson 23 Dec '17

23 Dec '17

Neverminding the ridiculous length of that subject line.. I just thought an interesting thought. First, a little context, (I know how rms feels about blockchains) I was investigating slock.it and thinking to myself "why don't they just make a hardware standard like eoma instead of closing their development and calling it open?" (Like, Pi-Top is [n]ever gonna release those stl files) (I realize that's a loaded 'just' cause it sounds easy, but is one of the most difficult possible) Then, it dawned on me: Lulzbot doesn't do that.. Wait, Lulzbot exclusively uses open software in their development.. Then *bam* like a boulder (nothing to do with Lulzbot): GPL-violations, improper GUI training, failing to extend using APIs/Addons, failing to bugsmash/'track-issues', failing to participate in mailing-lists and irc, failing to simply fork when development goals conflict, planned esoteric-ism and/or planned obsolescence, failure to secure clientèle data by using fully free systems (when relevant), failure to participate-in and be-aware-of public conversations about the underlining security of said systems (when relevant), failure to disclose supplychain information/identities (when relevant), failure at general transparency. All of these things traditionally go wrong with not only companies that use open source, but companies in-general. Then, it truly truly dawned on me, free software needs standards organizations as well.

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Free software possibly abusing network effect
by Jean Flamelle 21 Dec '17

21 Dec '17

https://github.com/urbit/urbit/issues/911 Curtis Yarvin (a.k.a. "Mencius Moldbug") leads a project called urbit to 1. create a virtual machine using lambda calculus instead of bytecode and 2. create a reputation network based on purchasing stake on namespace and stakeholders ruling the network how they see fit. I outline my chief problem with this in the issue which was closed literally within minutes. I would like more people to weigh in here. What do any of you feel about my predictions and my morals in this situation?

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https://youtu.be/DRXH-apu2YQ
by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton 21 Dec '17

21 Dec '17

woo! that's running a RISC-V 64-bit RV64G ISA with a *BOOM* core (Berkeley Out-of-Order) rocket-chip. it was a little hairy getting it set up. l.

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FOSDEM Hardware Enablement Devroom
by Paul Kocialkowski 18 Dec '17

18 Dec '17

A Hardware Enablement devroom will be taking place at FOSDEM this year, on Sunday 10 December 2017. This newly-created devroom is the result of 3 proposals that were merged together. It is co-organized by several individuals. The devroom covers all aspects related to hardware enablement and support with free software, including aspects related to boot software, firmwares, drivers and userspace tools and adaptation. Proposals for talks related to these topics are welcome and can be submitted until Sunday 26 November 2017 via the pentabarf interface. Short talks are encouraged over longer ones in order to cover a wide range of topics. The announcement for the devroom, that contains all the useful information, was published at: https://lists.fosdem.org/pipermail/fosdem/2017-October/002649.html Cheers and see you at FOSDEM! -- Paul Kocialkowski, developer of free digital technology and hardware support Website: https://www.paulk.fr/ Coding blog: https://code.paulk.fr/ Git repositories: https://git.paulk.fr/ https://git.code.paulk.fr/

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zc706 risc-v
by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton 18 Dec '17

18 Dec '17

ha! cool!

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Mali / Lima
by mike.valk＠gmail.com 11 Dec '17

11 Dec '17

It seems that someone has picked up the tainted project. https://github.com/yuq?tab=repositories

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EPROM programmer
by David Niklas 11 Dec '17

11 Dec '17

Hello Luke & list, I was blindly typing search phrases into my computer today (no, not really), when I stumbled onto a site advertising UV EPROM programmers for less than I had read about them being (was it $10,000 or $100,000?) I immediately searched ebay and found several William models for less than $70. "Cool" I said, "But is the SW open source?". So I did a single search. Duckduckgo was merciful and I soon found myself here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/geepro/ As you may or may not remember I've been trying to break into the HW field and I'm curious as to the list member's reactions to this as I was (am), a bit excited. Small chips don't seem that expensive either! Thanks, David

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FOSDEM 2018, Stand / Talks / BoFs - ssistance / volunteers needed
by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton 09 Dec '17

09 Dec '17

ok so thank you to wim for prompting me about FOSDEM 2018, i've applied for a stand there and also put in 3 talks in the "hardware track". now, here's the thing: taking 50kg of equipment to Shenzhen Maker Faire was... well... it wasn't fun. the actual faire, fine, but decanting that much equipment FORTY TIMES on international plane flights, taxis, buses, trains and walking around 3km in total, definitely wasn't. so a heads-up: this time i'll be bringing around 30kg on a 10,000km *international* overnight flight: if i'm going to FOSDEM 2018 i will definitely, definitely need some assistance getting to and from brussels airport to the hostel, and from there to the university. also, if anyone is already attending or is planning to attend, i'll need help covering the stand. last time another person named wim helped out, which was amazing of him, he just happened to be the person at the stand next door :) _also_.... what would really make it worth-while would be, if anyone's interested, to do a BoF: discuss and plan what needs to be done and so on. any thoughts and assistance appreciated. l.

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arm-netbook December 2017