arm-netbook December 2017

arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk

30 participants
23 discussions

Laptop LCD Touch Pad: Display KB Layout Idea
by Alexander Ross 25 Mar '19

25 Mar '19

On the laptops lcd touch pad. Here’s a idea for a feature. When leaning new keyboard layout. Say dovrak for example. The trouble is learning where the new keys are. For me at least, one could do with a constant reminder. What if the lcd touch pad displayed the current pressed keys? Maybe on a image of the keyboard, meaning some way of representing where the key you pressed is relative to other keys. So if its the wrong one you can see where the right one is. This info is only displayed while the keyboard is in use. When the touch pad is in use it switches to a relevant display for touch pad use. As for when the user is using not the touch pad nor the keyboard? What then? display keymap? If playing video display: video controls, time left, is internet speed fast enough for this stream? etc.

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Re: [Arm-netbook] Logos
by John Luke Gibson 22 Sep '18

22 Sep '18

I would highly recommend avoiding any logos, without proper historical reference. One of the problems with traditional Linux icons, are that they are very un-iconic. It's better to be textually based, in my opinion, than to use disorienting imagery. At this point, most of the clay has already set so referencing/alluding-to other gnu projects [such as blender] wouldn't be detrimental, however ascii has a very richer history of use by "hacktivists". Referencing some historically relevant (to "hacktivism") ascii iconography either overtly or subtly, kindof more or less as a hat tip to communities which support said historical events will cause the logo a greater likelihood of being regarded as iconic. I wish I had specific examples, but possibly using cloister black font would be a subtle hat tip to anonymous for some individuals use of various letters in that font as copy-cat of L from Death Note. Another thing of note, would be that we need to be careful who we tip our hats to, to be careful of who in the future people might assume us to endorse. A font is innocuous enough, that it can be adapted later due to circumstance (should a need arise to disassociate) without damaging the recognize-ability of any logo. The universal and modular style of blender, is a good point to mimic. A solid dot in the center of the "O" would probably be a subtle enough correlation to the blender logo. This is the pattern of thinking we need in developing logos and "slogans". Thinking about what sounds catchy only correlates us with random corporate culture. We don't need to be entirely original as we have a history to fall back on. However originality might also help distinguish us from our predecessors, the last thing we want is to fail to distinguish ourselves from your neighborhood corporation. I would recommend Luke to contact Wenqing Yang a.k.a. "Yummei", using the notability of the project to attract their attention. I would like to point out that despite being a cultural figure (famous artist) in the hacktivist community they previously lauched a multi-million dollar successful indiegogo which caused them much heart ache (per their blog) over legal controversy with so-called partners and their personal admonishment that they failed to do enough. >From: Alexander Ross <maillist_arm-netbook(a)aross.me> >To: Linux on small ARM machines <arm-netbook(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk> >Cc: >Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 16:07:15 +0000 >Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] Logos >this all these efforts, got me to have a play around too. :) > > i was started having a go at one idea of letters inserting into each > other kinda like a module. > > I had put E and O in side the M. it then kinda looked like/spelled Meoo > like a cat. > So what about a darn cat logo? maybe a cat playing with a eoma68 card in > its paws? > > sry for the yet another internet cat image type of suggestion, never > thought id be making one heh.

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Re: [Arm-netbook] Logos
by John Luke Gibson 21 Sep '18

21 Sep '18

> The idea about a dot in the "O" of EOMA made me think of fonts where the > dot is in the 0 (zero) to distinguish it from O (capital letter O) As we > all are somehow computer related I would find such a design confusing. If it was really to be in honor of the modularity and progress of blender, one would want to make the "O" not really in any particular font, but to look exactly the shape blender logo, except without the flay or the color scheme: a perfect solid-color circle within another perfect circle. It wouldn't theoretically be confusing because the mark you are thinking of is a hollow circle in an oval. Letter-o'es and zeroes can only sometimes be confusing because in some fonts they are both written as vertical ovals, not just the zero. I'm not sure on the required dimensions of a certification mark, however, the solid-shape flag-esque convention I've noticed among popular one's, often seems to detract from the continuity of the design on the objects that bear them, making them seem particularly foreign and like they don't belong. The vaporwave-esque color palate which most of them choose only add to this affect, as if they themselves are trying to distance themselves on some subconscious level from their endorsements. As a side effect to this, it makes them harder to trust. Any symbolism of any significant body, displays historical awareness.. It's what tells people whether they can trust it, before reading or attempting to judge it. Therein lies the axiom, there is no such thing as an original thought, so, if by means of arbitrary work dedicated to make more concise and thoroughly plastered an announcement of what historical or cultural event may have inspired such thoughts and such work, people will then engage in the arbitrarily difficult work of judging whether the project is sincere or not. In other words, if we don't display more than necessary effort in our symbol that can be recognized with several magnitudes less effort than it took to generate, then no highly-self-valuing person will have any sane reason to take us seriously, because if they took every slightly promising project, which failed to create a Sybil-certificate reputation in this manner, then they would never find a single valuable project in their lifetime (obviously this is an exaggeration).

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HDMI High-Frequency Layout: Recommendations
by Richard Wilbur 17 Jan '18

17 Jan '18

HDMI Layout Notes for EOMA68 Cards by Richard Wilbur Thu 3 Aug 2017 Recommendations for this Layout Source (processor) end: Could we shrink the via pitch between constituents of a differential pair (bring the vias of a differential pair closer to each other) and combine the anti-pads into an oval shape on each layer? This reduces fringing fields and thus parasitic capacitance. I like the ground vias close to the signal vias between differential pairs. It would be lovely to get a ground via close to the via on HTX2P and possibly move the one between HTX2N and HTX1P closer to the signal vias (if the signal vias of pairs can be moved closer with combining the anti-pads). What is the intra-pair skew from the processor lands to the first signal vias? I wonder if we could move the vias on the short lines a little further from the processor and make up some of the skew in that segment before we leave it? Sink (connector) end: Same thing for differential pair vias--HTX0 and HTX2--it would be lovely to shrink the via pitch and combine anti-pads (if possible). Again, I like the ground vias close to the signal vias HTX2P, HTX2N, and HTX0P. It would be lovely to be able to either put a new ground via closer to the signal via on HTX0N or move the one on the ground shield trace closer. I like what you were showing on the video with the signal vias at the connector lands: putting a neck on the trace between the via and the land should dampen the spirits of the solder but not the signals. If we could reduce the signal via pitch by combining anti-pads at the connector, we might be able to move the HTX1P and HTXCN signal vias to the other side of the lands next to the other side of the differential pair, thus equalizing the skew on the segment between the ESD chip pads and the connector pads. If that worked the final touch might be to add a ground via between DC3 pin 10 (GND) and the board edge for return current paths. Other than that, I would try and move as much of the skew compensation close to the source of the skew as possible. I'm not sure what I'm looking at as you mentioned the ground reference planes were solid under the HDMI differential pairs, but it looks like they have voids under the signals in the pictures. Am I seeing a negative, that there are only little strips of conductor in the ground reference plane directly under the high-frequency lines? Neither of these interpretations is very satisfactory, nor do they seem to represent reality. Please let me know what can and can't be done and I will adjust recommendations accordingly.

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Re: [Arm-netbook] HDMI High-Frequency Layout: Recommendations--Taper
by Richard Wilbur 06 Jan '18

06 Jan '18

The goal of the taper is to minimize the reflection coefficient involved with changes in impedance caused by changes in transmission line geometry. In essence we are trying to make the changes so gentle that we don't scare any electrons. The scared electrons reflect at the point of abrupt changes in impedance(flee back in the direction they came from) which weakens the signal delivered to the HDMI cable and, finally, the display. (Forgive the anthropomorphization of the electrons--it is purely for illustrative purposes.) As the high-frequency differential lines traverse the board from processor pin to connector pin certain parts of the geometry and electromagnetic environment stay fairly constant, other aspects in certain places are not conducive to the transmission environment needed by the HDMI signals we wish to deliver to the connector. Three principles are at work here: 1. Whatever conditions are apparent over the majority of the conduction path will dominate the transmission characteristics. (You could think of the overall impedance as being similar to a length-weighted average of the local impedance of all the sections along the path.) 2. The abruptness of changes in geometry will determine the abruptness of changes in impedance and thus the reflection coefficient associated with the perturbation. 3. Reflections are more troublesome the further you get from the signal source. Close to the source the reflection arrives at the source during the signal rise time and can be overcome by the line driver. The trace width stays mostly constant at 5mil except for component pads at processor, ESD chip, and connector and the two through-hole vias used to transition from layer 1 (processor) to layer 6 (room for differential microstrip transmission lines) back to layer 1 (connector). Both the signal trace copper thickness and the dielectric thickness between signal traces and ground plane change only at the signal vias. The room available on layer 6 allows us to make a controlled-impedance differential transmission line for a good share of the transmission path. Since the HDMI standard specifies 100 +/-15% Ohm impedance, we have designed the geometry to provide a characteristic impedance close to the upper end of the tolerance of the nominal impedance. We have room to impose this geometry for most of the length of the sojourn. At both ends the space is restricted such that the close quarters will no doubt result in a lower local impedance. Where we have room, the distance between a differential pair and any other copper (be it another differential pair or ground) is 15mil. At both ends this is restricted by the spacing between lands in the component layouts down to 5-7mil. From the first principle, we see that the influence of the lower local impedance from the restricted sections will serve to lower the overall impedance. In order to stay within the tolerances of the nominal impedance we attempt to limit the length of the restricted sections (where the inter-pair distance <15mil). In some places this could lead us to maintain 15mil inter-pair distance right up to an obstruction which imposes a 5-7mil inter-pair distance. The second principle leads us to recognize this is an abrupt change and expect that it will cause reflections. The third principle suggests it is more important to deal with abrupt changes at the connector end of the transmission line than the processor end. Hence, we are exploring the feasibility of tapering the inter-pair distance down from 15mil to 5mil as we get to the connector end, in order to soften the effects of the unavoidable space restrictions at the connector end. The other important point is that since we are dealing with differential signals, we are interested in trying to maintain symmetry in dealing with the two traces of each differential pair, lest we push signal energy into common-mode. The idea was inspired by my reading of a discussion on "Microwaves101"[*] of an impedance taper first described by R. W. Klopfenstein in a paper titled "A Transmission Line Taper of Improved Design", published in the Proceedings of the IRE, page 31-35, January 1956. We aren't really doing his work justice as our frequencies are so low that our board is too small to accommodate the length required to get the good low frequency response he demonstrates. Nevertheless, we are interested in making the sequence of small transitions in a somewhat similar fashion. Transmission Line geometry (widths) North ground fill keep out Inter-pair Distance = 15mil HDMI TX2P trace = 5mil Intra-pair Spacing = 5mil HDMI TX2N trace = 5mil Inter-pair Distance = 15mil HDMI TX1P trace = 5mil Intra-pair Spacing = 5mil HDMI TX1N trace = 5mil Inter-pair Distance = 15mil HDMI TX0P trace = 5mil Intra-pair Spacing = 5mil HDMI TX0N trace = 5mil Inter-pair Distance = 15mil HDMI TXCP trace = 5mil Intra-pair Spacing = 5mil HDMI TXCN trace = 5mil Inter-pair Distance = 15mil South ground fill keep out Adding this up yields a total = 135mil When we scale the Inter-pair Distance = 5mil, the total = 85mil This drops 50mil in width. <step> <Inter-pair Distance> <Change> 0 15mil 1 14mil -1mil 2 13mil -1mil 3 12mil -1mil 4 10mil -2mil 5 08mil -2mil 6 07mil -1mil 7 06mil -1mil 8 05mil -1mil If we use 15mil along the signal conduction path from the onset of one change to the next and 45 degree turns to initiate and complete all the changes, and if we choose a geometry to lengthen TXC (clock) the most and leave unchanged TX2, the length along the signal path of the taper will be 7*15mil + 4*1mil = 109mil after which we have no need of manual keep outs for the ground fill as the board rule of 5mil minimum Cu-Cu spacing will suffice. Deviations from path in due NorthEast direction (+ signifies change in the NorthWest direction, - signifies change in the SouthEast direction, units in mil) <step> <Northern keepout> <TX1> <TX0> <TXC> <Southern keepout> 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 -1 1 2 3 4 2 -1 1 2 3 4 3 -1 1 2 3 4 4 -2 2 4 6 8 5 -2 2 4 6 8 6 -1 1 2 3 4 7 -1 1 2 3 4 8 -1 1 2 3 4 Diagram attached below. Good grief that took awhile! I'm now completely sold on the concept of Computer-Aided Design (I've used some awkward implementations before but this was done with pencil, pen, measuring tape, and book spine for straight edge). Reference: [*] https://www.microwaves101.com/encyclopedias/klopfenstein-taper

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EOMA68 / Libre RISC-V team financing
by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton 01 Jan '18

01 Jan '18

ok so the past couple of updates i sent out i mentioned that there's no longer sufficient funds in the current campaign to further pay accommodation or any other living expenses. thus it is *really important* that i find sources of funds, immediately. beyond that, i may have found something that's worth exploring that has the potential to fund pretty much absolutely everything that we want to achieve, if it is leveraged correctly. one of the options that i am exploring is bltclub. i happened to have 0.65 BTC available, the price of bitcoin happened to be rising such that it was worth around USD $5000 at the time, i happened to hear about bitclub from a friend, and my prior experience with bitcoin mining i'd already done the preliminary analysis so it was an extremely easy and fast decision. bitclub - a group of like-minded people who happen to share a common interest - mine three percent of the world's bitcoin. three percent. at today's market rate that's twenty four ***MILLION*** US Dollars being generated by this group, every month. that's a staggering amount of money which immediately made it worthwhile investigating. the members basically make their money in two ways: (a) mining (of which they receive A HUNDRED PERCENT of the bitcoin mined - unlike many other mining clubs which take say 10%) (b) multi-level marketing. this is by far and above the more profitable method and the fact that it exists is precisely why the club can provide 100% of the mined bitcoin to people who *only* wish... to mine bitcoin. if you have ever done bitcoin mining, you will know that it is an absolute pain in the neck, and you will also know that you cannot get the equipment now for love nor money. not even bribes will work because you still have to out-bid everyone else who's offering bribes as well. and once you GET the equipment, if it breaks you lose downtime... that's if you can actually get the person you bribed to honour the warranty. by using a *POOL* of people - buying in bulk - the "share" of the *POOL* is available to you. one piece of equipment fails, so what, that's amortised across thounsands of people. you also don't pay for electricity or cooling. or have fans whirring 24x7 in your house. now, i *already have* two other people signed up: i am a few points away from hitting the first MLM milestone which would result in me receiving TWO HUNDRED US DOLLARS A DAY in *addition* to the bitcoin mining which is coming online in the next 48 hours. i have two separate and distinct questions: (1) is there anyone who does NOT wish to put their own money into buying bitclub shares who would like ME to sign them up, and, over the next few weeks and months, PAY their membership AND pay for their equipment. (2) is there anyone who CAN put their own money into bitclub who would be interested to know more. if yes, and you already know about bitcoin mining and about MLM etc. the link is here http://bitclub.network/lkcl the goal basically is to leverage this to become financially independently wealthy, and use it to fund libre hardware and software. there's about maybe 3 to 5 years in which bitcoin - specifically GROUP mining NOT individual mining - is a viable way to do that. any questions feel free to ask. l.

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Re: [Arm-netbook] EOMA68 / Libre RISC-V team financing
by ronwirring＠Safe-mail.net 01 Jan '18

01 Jan '18

-------- Original Message -------- From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl(a)lkcl.net> Apparently from: arm-netbook-bounces(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Linux on small ARM machines <arm-netbook(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk> Subject: [Arm-netbook] EOMA68 / Libre RISC-V team financing Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 09:59:04 +0000 On the current pc card situation I have some remarks. Primarily directed at other pc card supporters. I got the pc card after making some assessments. Did I believe it was a scam, no. Did I believe the pc card had a chance of getting made, yes. Did I believe the pc card enterprise could shipwreck, yes. If so I decided lkcl would not hear a word for it from me. Of course I only made such decision because to me the pc card's price is negligible. If beneficial to lkcl, he can erase me from the shipping list and no refund. I ask others to do the same. I think lkcl has done more than one can expect. He likely has gathered experiences and knowledge about libre hardware, he can use moving forward. If lkcl can contribute to the riscv development, he rather should do that, than potter on an arm cpu, none of us like. What I want to avoid is, that lkcl on economic reasons gets discouraged and jammed. I know the following is not achievable. I say it anyway. One option is, lkcl sets a monthly required amount of money for the next 6 months. I am prepared to pay lkcl 5usd a month. But only if I know lkcl gets the required sum every month. 5Usd is cheap, I know. If you want to pay more do it. To me this matter is another prove of libre software people not being streamlined. Libre software people are up against companies like intel and amd. Libre software people cannot expect to achieve results if the matter is not better organized. Among libre software people there should be a system of fellowships enabling persons to work on free software. No it does not have to be lkcl. But such system should be created. How should it be founded? > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netbook(a)files.phcomp.co.uk

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Libre RISC-V RV64GC SoC
by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton 31 Dec '17

31 Dec '17

so, ahh i would say it's christmas come early but it really *is* christmas :) i've been speaking with madhu, the head of the shakti team, they're extremely busy with a tapeout deadline of 1st january 2018, so in about a month or so's time he will have more time to talk, and it will be possible to begin properly planning. unlike many people to whom i've pitched the idea of an entirely libre SoC, madhu instead responded, "ok sure, what would you like?". initially being rather confused by this positive response, i outlined this page http://rhombus-tech.net/riscv/shakti/m_class/ and slowly began asking more questions. it turns out that the indian government has given him a mandate to create THE entire range of computing platforms. in speaking to him about why, well it was pretty obvious: if you were to have everyone in india buy a foreign imported smartphone - and that's just one market - it would LITERALLY bankrupt the country with the exodus of cash. so they have a law requiring that foreign countries, if they wish to sell product in india, that 70% of it must be manufactured locally. apple has apparently asked if they can work around this to get more foreign-made smartphones into india... they've been told unequivocably NO. the sheer scale of the opportunity has not only companies - you can guess who they are - trying to bribe him to shut down the entire programme, but also companies offering free tools and more. this means that with a ZERO financial outlay it is possible to get three (only three) designs through tapeout *AND* the MVP (multi-vendor programme) which will result in around 100 sample bare dies being made (entirely free), of which maybe 30% of those can be expected to actually result in a functioning chip. that's still 30 chips for a zero financial outlay where normally the cost would be around $5m, one each at at 20nm, 28nm and one more at 40nm. the only condition is: the entire SoC *must* be entirely libre. that's right down to the bedrock: not just the entire ASIC design but also the software stack running on it. you know the reasons why: "Intel Management Engine". it just so happens that the overlap between what we would like to see happen and what the shakti team has been set up to achieve happen to align near-100%. this is an incredible opportunity. there are four main tasks / details which need to be taken care of: * designing and specifying the SoC so that it is DESIRABLE in a specific target market or markets * finding the right team(s) of people with links to the free software community to target 3D, Video and so on. * finding a customer base large enough to warrant going to production * bridging finance (if that customer base isn't going to pay cash up-front). now, it turns out that *IF* the processor is designed SUCH THAT it is desirable for use in the indian schools market - either as laptops, netbooks, tablets or desktop machines (laptops would be better), THEN it is a near-automatic process of getting to market, orders of 10 million units are not a problem. note that *this is exactly what the EOMA68 Libre Laptop Housing is for*, and would be an immediate base on which to get demo units in front of people, very very quickly (just have to take care of making an EOMA68-RISCV64 Card). so, any ideas, input etc. welcomed. l.

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Re: [Arm-netbook] EOMA68 / Libre RISC-V team financing
by ronwirring＠Safe-mail.net 31 Dec '17

31 Dec '17

Displaying a form of payment is not good enough. Lkcl should make a website. It should show which amount of money he wants monthly and how much people have paid a given month. It should list several forms of payments. Including paypal. I am not going to register about a new service in order to get to pay. As long as lkcl gets the monthly amount he is asking for, I will pay for the next month. One month lkcl does not get the amount he asks for, I stop my payments. Lkcl not getting the amount he is asking for, tell me people are not interested in paying more in order to get their items. Then I say lkcl should stop production of the pc card, no refunds and negotiate a solution regarding those who wanted a laptop. > > got one https://liberapay.com/~27466/widgets/ > > _______________________________________________ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netbook(a)files.phcomp.co.uk

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ccc make your own cpu
by ronwirring＠Safe-mail.net 30 Dec '17

30 Dec '17

https://youtu.be/JlshnJjsw8E?t=2185

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arm-netbook December 2017