[Arm-netbook] Schematic and PCB layout CAD files

Sat May 18 20:33:00 BST 2019

On Sunday, May 19, 2019, Jakub Kákona <kaklik at mlab.cz> wrote:

> Hello,
> I am unable to withstand this old and out of the objective review of KiCAD.
> Therefore I want to write something.
> I was more than five years *professional* user of PADS from Mentor
> Graphics.

>
Which means that you have been extremely well trained as an experienced
engineer.

Which in turn means that now you do not strictly need the DRC and editing
assistance that PADS provides.

I started out the other way round. I began with KiCAD and it was s***. I
wasted 6 months.

Then, a few years later (after CERN's improvements I believe) a high
profile project tried to do an A64 layout, including DDR3. It was
successful but absolute hell.

>  And for now, I am using KiCAD.

Great. Does it have

Push and shove

Auto assist routing

Track length DRCs

Group track min and max DRC

Impedance estimation

Clearance DRCs on any to any of VIA Track Net TrackGroup DiffPair Polygon

Does the routing assist feature respect the clearance DRCs above

And have they fixed that damn awful utterly stupid naming where the library
editor uses part and another name then when you actually use them the names
change?

And if you create a multipart does it still destroy pins?

And if you lay out tracks that have not been added to the layer DRC, does
it,still destroy them WITHOUT WARNING?

And has the extremely poor attitude of the developers towards experienced
engineers been fixed?

> The troubles which Luke mention disappeared in last years when CERN invest
> a large amount of work and money to bring KiCAD on a professional level.
>
> And yes, Arun, unavailability of easily sharable CAD design formats is a
> blocker of potential widespread use by the community.  But I personally
> hope, there will be enough appeal of open design files that I or someone
> else redesign it in KiCAD.

Indeed, this would be fantastic.

It would also be fantastic to have, finally, an import and export function
from PADS to KiCAD and vice versa.

I did begin exploring the DCOM interface to PADS, it is inadequate.

But such redesign is not mandatory on the current stage of the project.
> Because of the project idea must be verified first and it could be done
> with the design data created in almost anything. The piece which currently
> missed is proof of "That really works".
>
> Jakub
>
>
> so 18. 5. 2019 v 17:25 odesílatel Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <
> lkcl at lkcl.net> napsal:
>
> > On Sat, May 18, 2019 at 4:05 PM Arun Isaac <arunisaac at systemreboot.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > > KiCAD and gEDA simply aren't up to the job of dealing with this type
> > > > of project.  i dedicated several months making a huge effort to
> design
> > > > a Card in KiCAD, it was... well, it wasn't time wasted: it was "time
> > > > discovering that KiCAD is so inadequate that its use would *ACTIVELY*
> > > > prevent and prohibit the completion of the entire goal"
> > >
> > > That's very disappointing. I was hoping to fabricate the PCBs for at
> > > least the housings. Now, it looks like I have to redo the PCBs in
> > > KiCAD. :-( Will you be providing KiCAD files in the future?
> >
> >  the question needs to be read as, "will someone pay me the
> > extraordinarily large sum needed to spend vast amounts of time -
> > estimated somewhere around 7-12 months - just to deal with the
> > complete utter lack of any kind of professional capabilities that
> > KiCAD simply and utterly fails to have, which would approximately
> > triple or quadruple the completion time"
> >
> > > Being able
> > > to use only free software is a highly desirable feature. And, just out
> > > of curiosity, in what way, did you find KiCAD inadequate?
> >
> >  where the f*** do i even start???
> >
> >  * corruption of schematics
> >  * assumptions by the developers that adversely affected
> understandability
> >  * violation of "principle of least surprise"
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Least_surprise
> >  * intransigence on the part of the developers to fix the problems
> > when reported (despite other people reporting the same)
> >  * corruption of PCB files (destruction of traces)
> >  * total lack of DRC
> >  * total lack of being able to specify track, pad, component, net, net
> > group, via and other clearances in any kind of meaningful way
> >  * total lack of matrix interdependent clearances between the same
> >  * total lack of differential-pair support
> >  * total lack of any kind of "assisted routing"
> >
> >  you name it, it's not there.  i'm staggered that anyone who has
> > worked with *professional* PCB layout software would even remotely
> > take KiCAD seriously.
> >
> >  eagle - even the monetarily-zero-cost version, which i used to create
> > a far better 40V 32-bit-capable version of the RAMPS 1.4 (btw, RAMPS
> > 1.4 is so dangerous it's actually burned peoples' houses to the
> > ground)  - is better, by miles.
> >
> >  do take that as a warning that if you are considering using KiCAD,
> > you'll know what to expect.
> >
> >
> > > >  you'd be the second person - in the entire world - to be using
> > > > pyopenscad.  yes, really.
> > >
> > > No, I don't use pyopenscad per se. But, I am comfortable using text and
> > > programming interfaces. I'm not a big fan of using the mouse. So, I
> have
> > > no issue with the CAD designs being available only in pyopenscad.
> >
> >  great.
> >
> >
> > > > let me know how you get on.
> > >
> > > Thank you for the detailed explanation. But, for now, my interest is
> > > primarily in the PCB designs. I'll be trying out the CAD designs only
> if
> > > I can fabricate the PCB. So, for now, that is a blocker. :-(
> >
> >  i'm absolutely serious: you'd be better off with the
> > [monetarily-zero-cost] eagle, then, just before production, export /
> > convert to KiCAD format if you absolutely insist on using it.
> >
> >  hypothetically you could use both applications, working round the
> > monetarily-zero-cost limitations (2-layer), importing from one to the
> > other, 2 layers at a time.
> >
> >  or just pay for an eagle license.
> >
> >  yes, really, KiCAD is so bad (and the developers so incapable of
> > understanding how critical the flaws are in what they've written) that
> > yes, i'm a software libre advocate, recommending to you, another
> > software libre developer, to use proprietary PCB CAD software.
> >
> > l.
> >
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