[Arm-netbook] mali gpu reverse engineering lkcl may ignore

[ronwirring at Safe-mail.net]

-------- Original Message --------
From: Pablo <pablo at parobalth.org>
Apparently from: arm-netbook-bounces at lists.phcomp.co.uk
To: Eco-Conscious Computing <arm-netbook at lists.phcomp.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] mali gpu reverse engineering lkcl may ignore
Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 22:40:07 +0200

> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 03:07:45PM -0400, ronwirring at Safe-mail.net wrote:
> > If you reinterpret what I write then tell on what grounds. I think lkcl's reasons for not reverse engineering a mali are right. 
> It is difficult to follow your argumentation. You write that you agree
> and disagree in the next sentence. 
No, I do not.
First I list lkcl's reasons why he thinks reverse engineering is a bad track. I agree on his arguments. Next I say, why I believe it is better doing a reverse engineering. If you do not accept the principle of weighing arguments up against each other then that is your decision. I specifically wrote in an earlier post, that for me the arguments in favor of making a reverse engineering of a mali gpu are stronger than against. 
> >Weighing them up against the importance of getting a libre software gpu, I reach the conclusion that the reverse engineering should be done.
> Before you plan a difficult crowd funding campaign and involve the FSF, please tell us your
> counter arguments to Lukes reasoning on a technical and ethical level.
I do not have any technical arguments about a reverse engineering. I have no insight about reverse engineering. To my knowledge it is one of the most difficult fields about computers. I asked if a reverse engineering can be done? Lkcl said yes.
My political arguments align with those of libre software. Watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag1AKIl_2GM
I think it is important having libre software electronics which are able to match the performance of non libre electronics. We should have at least one libre software mali gpu we can ask people to buy.  
> For example to the following points I am quoting from Lukes email reply to you in
> the thread about "firefly 3399 all source software disclosed?":
> - "take one of the "open gpus" or parts of them and use that."
> - "the sad fact of reverse-engineering: all that effort, with
> *no guarantee of success*.... just to get something that's years
> out-of-date."
> - "well, with the same money it would be possible to make our
> own libre processor, with enough extensions to be able to do 3D
> graphics *without* paying anyone a cent." 
I have not heard about this option before lkcl wrote it. I have not heard anyone else mention this option. If lkcl's suggestion is practicable, it is another prove of the lack of coordination among libre software people.  
> 
> > There have been some remarks about the probability of a successful crowd funding. I mentioned the numbers 50000 people, each paying 5euro. Notice on this email list, people want to pay 5eu, if they get the software in question. 
> >It is safe to say more than 10 million people have gnulinux on their computer? A major part of them know about the importance of libre software and a part of them would want to act on it.
> I don't know if your numbers are correct but it seems important to me to
I do not know either. I do not think there are statistical numbers or questionnaires on this matter. My major arguments are, more than 10 million people likely know about libre software. If you asked them one by one, if in the same prize range, do you want to buy libre software electronics over non libre electronics, many would answer yes. Providing libre software electronics would require a very high degree of coordination. Every major gnulinux forum and organization should display the crowd funding at the same time. I have so far not seen a crowd funding about libre software electronics that would display no matter what entity on the internet people would watch. Proven is, on many areas of consumer electronics we cannot buy libre software devices.
> point out that only a fraction of all GNU/Linux Users own a device with
> a mali GPU. Only a part of that group would in principle support such a
> campaign. Only some of the willing will actually fund the campaign...
> 
> Pablo
> 
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