[Arm-netbook] Totally derailed topic

[John Luke Gibson]

On 5/9/17, zap <zapper at openmailbox.org> wrote:
>
>
> On 05/09/2017 08:14 PM, John Luke Gibson wrote:
>> On 5/9/17, Lyberta <lyberta at lyberta.net> wrote:
>>> doark at mail.com:
>>>> I think you're caught in the same trap, unable to realize your own
>>>> potential for lack of a moral standard (it also suffers as a result of
>>>> an Atheistic philosophy), and unable to accept a pointless existence.
>>> When I was 19, I was in a very bad situation. Everything I've ever
>>> believed in was false. So I've spent the next 6 months looking for
>>> truth. Thankfully, I have dropped out of college by this time so I had
>>> time to investigate.
>>>
>>> And in one moment it dawned upon me. There is no truth. Everything is
>>> relative. People invent their own truth and start believing in it. So if
>>> I want to stay unshackled I must not believe in anything.
>>>
>>> The next thing was supposed to be suicide but I couldn't do it. I don't
>>> know the future and I don't know what will happen when I die. In fact,
>>> I'm trapped inside my own consciousness and by definition can't escape
>>> it and see the truth. Remember Plato's allegory of the cave?
>>>
>>> Another thing that bugs me is, since I don't believe in anything, I also
>>> don't believe in science. I can't predict what's gonna happen in the
>>> next moment. Every once in a while I get in this state of mind where I
>>> understand that I understand nothing.
>>>
>>>> In any and all cases I think you might enjoy a book that is eyeopening,
>>>> insightful and uplifting, with respect to the world around you, as
>>>> opposed to your more dreary, despairing, world view.
>>> I was forced to read books at school and this gave a huge hatred for
>>> them. I remember I've tried to read a fiction book at psychiatric
>>> hospital and after the 1st paragraph I was so enraged that I quickly put
>>> it away. Though this mostly applies to fiction.
>>>
>>>
>> The mountains of religious thought pumped into this thread has it
>> visibly oozing (I mean no offense). Firstly, the speaker in that video
>> linked @zap I'm familiar with and is very unreliable when their claims
>> are checked or researched. Secondly, Nietzsche explores that so-called
>> "trap". The thing is that religion presents the concept of morality
>> which fills the space created by ennui and lack of obstacles to
>> self-preservation. Noam Chomsky popularized abit the thought that the
>> consistent trend in nature is more intelligent species tend to go
>> extinct after a shorter period than obviously less intelligent ones
>> (i.e. beetles), this is due to genetic drift and inbred weaknesses due
>> to a lack of obstacles to their survival. Ethics is an artificial
>> obstacle we present ourselves in order to keep us strong (Nietzsche
>> referred to the model used by Christianity as Slave Morality,
>> suggesting that the ethics therein enslave the subscriber to the whims
>> and desires of the less fortunate, and thusly purporting the existence
>> of less fortunate as ENDEMICALLY NECESSARY because without less
>> fortunate people then there would be point to the ethics of
>> christianity and therefore there would be no obstacle to occupy
>> ourselves with and therefore genetic drift would set in and we would
>> die as a species. In other words, Nietzsche considered christianity so
>> obsessed with compassion, that in a world without suffering it would
>> utterly and completely fall apart.).
> You can choose to think what you want, but for me it as relieved my
> suffering long term.
>
> I feel peace more than I ever used to, as a child I was an athiest. as a
> teenager I was agonstic and four years ago I was in fact the kind of
> christian you think all christians are...
>
>
> The fact of the matter is you have black and white thinking
>
> Saying all religion is conflict is to me like all science is good.
>
> Science after all is directly responsible for why climate change is
> happening.
>
> I know you may mean well, but please try reading the gospels of jesus'
> ministry before you claim to understand what is true and false. IF it
> helps to motivate you do it for a laugh, not that I agree with that, but
> he spoke out against the very things you are saying he supports. He
> wants nothing to do with conflict other than to heal the hurts of those
> who are suffering.
>
> By the way, I do not think I am unreliable. I think we just have a
> difference of opinion.
>
> I don't think all atheists are bad heck, who knows what will happen at
> the end of ones life, they could turn to christ.
>
> Hard to say,
>
> conversely, not all christians are good, mostly because some lie about
> who they are.
>
> You can find examples of both sides in all humanity I am sure but you
> have to seek it out and alas that is something I fear you will not do.
>
>
>
>
>>
>> Nietzsche's life's work was dedicated to attempting to create a
>> well-developed replacement to both religion and "Slave Morality".
>>
>> I don't know if I support Nietzsche's alternative of "Master Morality"
>> (where the obstacle is to become the best human possible, the
>> so-called "ubermensch"), but I do say that "trap" is hardly a "trap"
>> rather it's just a human need for an obstacle or conflict, and by
>> rejecting religion all one is doing is rejecting the type of conflict
>> which that religion endorses.
>> Thirdly,
>> ______
>>
>> .................| ->   vvvvvvvv
>> ______
>>
>> On the subject of Relativity:
>> ______
>>
>> .................| ->    ^^^^^^^^^
>> ______
>>
>> "The only rule is everything changes, even this rule." is the best
>> misquoting of Heraclitus I've heard and has rather impacted my view of
>> "Relativity". Ultimately building off of the concept that the meaning
>> of life is just any arbitrary form of conflict, then sometimes
>> constant values contribute to having an increased selection of types
>> of conflict. Technology of modern day allows us to have simulated
>> battles over the net, and, without a whole slew of discovered
>> constants (such as ways of making the voltage across a wire consistent
>> with what is intended to deliver a message), then that would not be
>> possible. I believe the universe only stays as consistent as it needs
>> to be for every life to have a potentially unique purpose given work
>> to discover new constant attributes to apply to a new purpose to
>> assume. I believe it is quite possible high-fantasy magic might have
>> existed at one point and that it was merely purged by the work devoted
>> to the infinitely more rigorous "science". That's just my perspective,
>> and it is also my perspective that science could be replaced with
>> high-enough degree of arbitrary work dedicated to discovering
>> attributes of the universe incompatible with modern science. This
>> would require a large influx of unfulfilled persons highly motivated
>> to transform the status quo and contradict conventional wisdom.
>
> I will also add that I haven't read what you speak of, but I do know the
> concept of blind chance...
>
> and it makes me think that someone who doesn't want to accept the truth
> or the truth is too hard to bear came up with it.
>
> Not saying that you feel that way even secretly, but I do think that
> such talk takes far more faith in science than it takes me to believe in
> God.
>
> That's my perception though. Again it is my opinion. So try to chill.
>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook at lists.phcomp.co.uk
>> http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
>> Send large attachments to arm-netbook at files.phcomp.co.uk
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook at lists.phcomp.co.uk
> http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
> Send large attachments to arm-netbook at files.phcomp.co.uk

I think you heavily misinterpreted most of what I said, mostly because
the first "thing" was more a side comment. I didn't watch the video,
because I find the speaker seems willfully unreliable. I've listened
to their lectures before. Everything else was more pointed at what
doark had said.