[Arm-netbook] systemd nonsense ad-infinitum

[zap]

Sorry but I have to challenge you on this, it isn't right for systemd to
be the only init that can be used on debian by default.
> There is no "forcing" or "requiring" involved, and people spouting this
> bullshit is getting _really_ old now.
>
> If any such radical change had actually been enacted then:
>
>   a) well, we'd be in a different universe, where Debian was run by some
>   sort of overlord who was prone to making snap decisions on a whim.
>
>   b) there would have been a mass bug filing for all these packages that
>   did not require systemd, to somehow add that requirement.
>
>   c) there would have then been a vast wave of new package uploads with
>   the new packages, encumbered with those requirements.
>
> NONE OF THIS HAPPENED.


Incorrect sorry but I am not sure where you get your info from.

> Debian didn't even make it so that other inits were somehow downgraded,
> except for the fact that sysvinit is no longer the default on those
> platforms where systemd actually exists (so on other platforms it's not
> even the default, and most packages happily build on _all_ platforms, so
> how does that sit in the same universe as one where systemd is "required"?) 
>
> In fact Debian instead made efforts (much of the effort being done by
> the Debian systemd maintainers) to make sure that is was actually rather
> easier to switch between inits.  The systemd folk even wrote extra code
> to make sure that sysvinit and other inits could continue to support
> programs where the upstreams have decided that they want to depend on
> the services that systemd provides.  That strikes me as above and beyond
> the call of duty.
>
> What thanks do they get for it?
>
> They get unending inchoate screaming about how they are part of some
> sort of global conspiracy, until they started burning out.
>
> The result being that they no longer have time, and certainly have no
> inclination, to support systemd-shim, and the useless wankers that did
> all the screaming of course cannot be arsed to put any effort into it,
> so it's now rotting, and the chances of being able to continue using
> other inits in Debian are now beginning to diminish.
>
> This is NOT because anyone forced anyone to do anything.
>
> If people were to decide not to post another anti-systemd rant, and
> instead do something as trivial as reporting a single bug where
> non-systemd-as-init was causing a problem, then there would be some hope
> of making sure that other inits continue to work, but from what I can
> see that is not happening.
>
> Instead people are spreading lies and scuttling off to the likes of
> Devuan (who are also not addressing the issues, because they are not
> improving application portability, because it's impossible to have
> Devuan _with_ systemd).
>
> Also, note that Debian is still going to the effort of making choice
> possible -- other ditros that switched have made the rather more
> sensible choice of supporting only systemd, and thus saving themselves
> the effort of supporting the minority inits.

I really would like to see evidence of that. I tried to remove systemd
on debian like three months ago for openrc and it dragged every bit of
software off. So your thoughts are invalid sadly.

>
> I imagine that's why people are still bothering to attack Debian on this
> since they imagine that there's a slim chance that we might switch
> again, but what you have now is definitely the best you're going to get.
>
> As a parent of two small children I can tell you that screaming never
> gets rewarded, and my children if they scream long enough will either
> both lose the toy they are fighting over, or have something they like
> even less happen to them -- I think that's pretty much the mindset that
> most Debian Developers have adopted to people howling about systemd, so
> be warned:
>
>   Life can always get worse, and if you don't want that, stop screaming
>   and put some effort into building the world as you'd like it to exist.
>
> Cheers, Phil.
>From your response, you seem to think I am anti systemd, and that anyone
who disagrees with systemd is a child.  That is an invalid argument.  I
don't want systemd to be my only option that's all.

I will say it again, I have only known about systemd controversy for a
few months, but I will tell you this, it seems like a dangerous idea for
all distros to use the same init in case something goes wrong. and the
code is taken advantage of. Aka, one distro gets hacked because of it, a
domino effect if you would will happen. 

By the way, I can feel your anger from your response. I am quite calm
right now.  Just relax, you use what you want, we will use what we want.
That is the code of open source and even more so, free software.