[Arm-netbook] Logging and journaling

Wolfgang Romey hier at wolfgangromey.de
Fri Feb 10 15:58:52 GMT 2017

Yes, I would be an unhappy customer, I ordered the original debian and
nothing else.

And BTW Luke, if you do not want to deliver unethical products, you can
not deliver hardware. There is not such a thing as ethical harware:
conflict minerals, working conditions, poisoning the enviroment, ...

We should be glad, if we get open and free hardware in the near future
with running Free software on top. But that would be not ehtical
produced hardware. It is a very, very long way to go, until we get that.


Am 09.02.2017 um 22:56 schrieb Philip Hands:
> Tzafrir Cohen <tzafrir at cohens.org.il> writes:
>> On Thu, Feb 09, 2017 at 04:45:07PM +0000, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
>>> On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 3:37 PM, Tzafrir Cohen <tzafrir at cohens.org.il> wrote:
>>>> That is: you don't like systemd? fine. Installing Debian without it is
>>>> rather simple:
>>>> https://wiki.debian.org/systemd#Installing_without_systemd
>>>  does it include removal of libsystemd0?  (it doesn't).  it's not as
>>> straightforward as it's made out to be, tzafrir.
>> Neither it include the removal of libselinux. I am yet to hear proper
>> technical arguments why this library should be removed.
>>>> In that case, all I'll have to do would be to install a few more
>>>> packages (and maybe disable syslog logging to reduce unnecessary disk
>>>> writes, and similar tweaks).
>>>  i'm considering one of two options:
>>>  (1) providing the image (a snapshot of debian/testing from before
>>> jessie) i've been working with for a couple of years, now, as-is.  if
>>> people want to upgrade, they just do "apt-get dist-upgrade" and they
>>> get systemd and everything else.
>> I would rather start with a fresh install of Debian than this.
>>>  (2) putting on angband.pl's nosystemd repositories.  this is "hard
>>> work" for me to both set up, and for others to remove (revert) just as
>>> you say, so i am unlikely to do it... but it's an option.
>> I would rather start with a fresh install of Debian than this.
>> Neither of those options is a properly supported Debian system. This is
>> not what I meant when I opted for Debian as the OS (IIRC this was also the
>> most common option among others). I guess some of us will need to
>> provide an alternative image of Debian with instructions on how to
>> install it.
> Quite.
> Luke, you're going to have some seriously unhappy customers if you start
> trying to supply mangled versions of Debian in place of the advertised
> "Debian GNU/Linux".
> I'm sure that Tzafrir and I are not the only Debian Developers who have
> paid you, and knew _exactly_ what to expect from Debian when they did so.
> It strikes me as seriously condescending to assume that Debian users are
> somehow clueless about what they mean by Debian GNU/Linux.  Especially
> when offered the choice of OSs you presented.
> Deciding to supply something else, now, strikes me as ... impolite.
> If you are concerned about ethics, consider the ethics of bait-and-switch,
> which is what you appear to be contemplating here.
> Cheers, Phil.
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Bitte Anhänge nur in Freien Formaten!


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