[Arm-netbook] "zombie" campaign

[Sam Pablo Kuper]

On 10/09/16 00:13, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 10, 2016 at 12:04 AM, Sam Pablo Kuper
> <sampablokuper at posteo.net> wrote:
>> "Creator: a User responsible for running a Campaign, filling Pre-orders,
>> or otherwise supplying products for commercial sale. [...]
>>
>> A Creator is required to fulfill all Premiums of a Creator’s successful
>> Campaign or refund Pledges to any Backer whose Premium the Creator does
>> not or cannot fulfill.
> 
>  looks reasonable to me... so that people don't "run away" with the
> money, basically!

Right. It's a basic contract of sale: the seller must provide the goods
that have been paid for, or return the payment.


>> IANAL, but that looks quite a lot like a contract of sale to me.
> 
>  a contract of sale has very very specific terms which involve things
> like "warranties", "WEEE Directives" and so on.

IIUC, statutes may impose such requirements on sellers, depending upon
the jurisdiction, nature of the product, etc. But such statutory
requirements do not form part of the contract of sale: they simply apply
to specified parties to contracts of sale.


>> Also, Crowd Supply definitely promotes itself as a store:
>>
>> https://blog.crowdsupply.com/2013/03/04/crowd-supply-is-a-store/
> 
>  that's *after* the crowdfunding campaign... and it's run *by
> crowdsupply* - not by the backers and not by the campaign creators.

The idea of Crowd Supply as a store includes the crowd-funding aspect of
Crowd Supply, as the other article I linked makes clear:

"In late 2012, Kickstarter began its 'this is not a store' rhetoric. ...
It was that very blog post that encouraged Crowd Supply to make its
move. Six months later, it had its first blog post titled 'Crowd Supply
is a Store.'

In an instant, Crowd Supply knew what it was, and had to be. It was
clear then, just as it is now, that people who backed projects wanted
products, not promises. [Crowd Supply] manages how products are
delivered to backers."

http://thenextweb.com/insider/2015/12/09/crowd-supply-is-succeeding-where-kickstarter-and-indiegogo-are-failing-miserably/



>> Now that the crowd-funding period is over, Crowd Supply has switched to
>> offering pre-orders, which are distinct from pledges under the terms
>> linked above. I have no idea what regulatory implications that has, if any.
> 
>  they're sold by crowdsupply - not by me.  crowdsupply will be
> ordering a batch of units (from me).  i will be *crowdsupply's*
> supplier (for fulfilling *their* preorders).  any "contracts of sale"
> - for the preorders and for the preorders only - will be with
> *crowdsupply* (not me).

The terms state that pre-orders *are* contracts between Creators and
Users, and that they are *not* contracts with Crowd Supply:

"By using the Service to accept Pre-orders, you as the Creator are
offering Users the opportunity to enter into an agreement with you. By
using the Service to place a Pre-order, you as the Customer accept that
offer and the agreement between Customer and Creator is formed. Crowd
Supply is not a party to the agreement between the Customer and Creator.
All dealings related to Pre-orders are solely between Users, regardless
of the Company’s role as an intermediary."

Seems pretty clear to me :)

You might have been thinking of Crowd Supply's third option under the
"Summary of Service" heading:

"Customers can purchase a Creator’s in-stock products via an online
retail transaction."

IIUC, that option would only arise if at some point - and for any reason
- Crowd Supply has more units in stock than have been accounted for by
pledges or pre-orders. As the units haven't yet been manufactured, this
option cannot yet have arisen.

- spk