[Arm-netbook] tablet pricing

[lkcl luke]

On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 12:16 PM, cnxsoft <cnxsoft at cnx-software.com> wrote:
> On 13/07/2012 17:46, lkcl luke wrote:
>> On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 11:38 AM, cnxsoft<cnxsoft at cnx-software.com>  wrote:
>>> On 13/07/2012 16:55, lkcl luke wrote:
>>>> On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 9:23 AM, Guo, Yifu<yifu.guo at bitsyn.com>   wrote:
>>>>> GPS licencing is expensive.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also I'm going with AMlogic with my project as they do provide source,
>>>>    no, they don't.  they force companies to sign a GPL-violating NDA,
>>>> and do *not* provide full source code.
>>>>
>>> They may drag their feet for new processors, but for older ones, they
>>> seem pretty open: http://openlinux.amlogic.com/wiki/index.php/Arm
>>   for the reference designs? sure it is - but that reference design
>> code is absolutely of zero use to you if it doesn't match the
>> hardware, is it?
>>
>>   their GPL-violating policies cost us hard cash, and cost us a client.
>>   an ODM which *they recommended* refused to provide the modifications
>> that the ODM themselves had made, because they had signed the
>> GPL-violating NDA.  we had already approached a client who wanted to
>> use the ODM's devices with their own custom OS, but without the full
>> GPL source code this was clearly impossible, and "our" failure to
>> deliver cost *us* the client.
>>
>>   also: you've heard of the "Spark Plasma" Tablet?  it's actually a
>> rebadged Zenithink tablet.  one of Zenithink's Engineers *deliberately
>> violated* the AMLogic NDA that his company, Zenithink, had signed, by
>> providing the spark plasma team with the GPL Source Code, calling into
>> question the legality of the project.
>>
>>   you *can't* mess around with this stuff.
>>
>>   l.
> I've never worked with AMLogic, so I can't comment directly on the
> issues you had with them.
> However, in the link I provided, although I haven't looked into details,
> they seem to release u-boot and the kernel source code (For 8226 and
> others) publicly together with instructions to build it and use their
> media framework.

 yes.  that's what originally attracted us to AMLogic.

> There is no need to sign a NDA first before downloading
> the files on that page.

 yes, that's right.  insidious and compelling, isn't it?

> If you have a different hardware, you could
> modify u-boot and/or the kernel.

 yes... by being forced to reverse-engineer that hardware.  ok, to
clarify: where does this "different hardware" come from?  if it comes
from an ODM that signed AMLogic's GPL-violating NDA, you're f*****d,
aren't you?

 if however you designed that hardware *yourself* then of course
that's a different matter (but see below - the venture is still at
risk).


> My assumption is that people could run into the issues you described
> with new processors,

 that as well.

> where AMLogic asks their customers to sign an NDA
> that would prevent them to sell a device without violating GPL. (Which
> unfortunately seems to be the norm).

 ... and this loses AMLogic the right to distribute the GPL Source
Code.  this loses *AMLOGIC* the right to distribute that GPL source
code.

 let me repeat that again in case it hasn't sunk in.  AMLogic DO NOT
HAVE THE RIGHT TO DISTRIBUTE LINUX KERNEL AND U-BOOT SOURCE CODE.  the
GPLv2 is very clear.

 and they are a U.S.-based corporation, which means that they can be
sued for copyright violation and, unlike in a PRC-based corporation,
the case would stick.

 so you are taking a serious risk by using AMLogic CPUs.  your
customers could end up having their products impounded at Customs, or
the supply of CPUs completely dry up if AMLogic end up with an
injunction against them for Copyright Infringement.

 l.