[Arm-netbook] Good netbook based on Cortex-A9

[Gordan Bobic]

On 08/06/2012 01:12 AM, Wojciech Meyer wrote:
> Gordan Bobic<gordan at bobich.net>  writes:
>
>> On 08/05/2012 11:13 PM, Wojciech Meyer wrote:
>>
>>> Partial responsibility for this situation (a very good netbook for
>>> bargain price), are the reviews on the internet which marked down the
>>> netbook significantly, which is actually good.
>>
>> The big problem is that it came with Android as standard. Android
>> without a touchscreen was always going to be a recipe for disaster. I
>> still cannot believe Toshiba did that. Seriously - what were they
>> thinking. If they'd shipped them pre-loaded with a proper Linux distro
>> it would have been a lot more successful.
>
> Linux distro still scares most of the "normal" people still! :-)

I find that the people who have user level issues with modern Linux 
distributions are the ones that have the same problems with Windows anyway.

> Also, we are not there yet with ARM, there is a project called Linaro
> which is fixing that now, but still plenty to do. Of course for we are
> getting toward good driver stacks for semi-desktop machines with an
> application level software.

Linaro is more about low level kernel stuff, mainly related to 
facilitating changes that will enable a single ARM kernel to boot on 
multiple SoCs, something that is not generally possible at the moment.

>>> Of course it's also a lack of support for the mainstream desktop OSes,
>>> which also doesn't hurt me at all.
>>
>> Ubuntu actually supports the AC100 quite well.
>
> Yes, but I meant here the popularity of the product - and the mainstream
> OS' means here: Windows :-)

If you're waiting for Windows to make ARM more popular I suspect you'll 
be disappointed. I reckon ARM is going to do reasonably well in servers 
as an alternative to virtualization efficiency for small workloads, and 
of course in the embedded market segments like slates and phones. 
Probably also in desktop virtualization where the desktops get replaced 
with very thin clients VNC-ing to the "real" desktop running on a server.

But I don't expect it to become more than a reasonably sized niche on 
desktops and laptops.

>>> M$ has already ported windows 8 onto ARM, seeing increasing interests,
>>> in the A class embedded devices and growing user base of Android and iOS
>>> - which is also obvious - but a bit late.
>>
>> Yeah, but nobody uses that, do they? ;)
>
> Wouldn't be beneficial for ARM ecosystem to get that sorted? :)
> We don't need to use it, for me windows doesn't need to exist.
> But Toshiba Ac 100 would have much better reviews if only ran
> windows.. scary but true.

I don't think that was the problem. I think Android is a particularly 
bad choice for a device without a touchscreen. That's really what killed 
the popularity of it.

>>> People that do want a keyboard instead of tablet, are usually simple
>>> users that either want high end performance to play desktop games or
>>> just use office, so having no windows is an obvious downside (as what
>>> they perceive). That's perhaps why Smartbooks failed.
>>
>> I very much doubt anyone buys a netbook to play high end games on it.
>> And Ubuntu has had OpenOffice running on ARM for a while.
>
> Of course that's the first group, which can't use netbooks at all,
> because of the performance and the screen size. Maybe I was not clear
> here.  OTOH the second group needs the Windows eco system, it's not only
> the office as such, but other software that just will not run on ARM
> (yet?).

Not really. The second group can in most cases do their stuff just fine 
using OpenOffice/LibreOffice or GoogleDocs or even Office365. I don't 
think Windows availability is really an issue any more.

> To give an example, I do all my work on Linux box at my daytime job, but
> I need to use bloody VM to book my holidays or expenses, just because
> the web interface needs windows (not even IE only, the use dlls on a
> client side driven by IE specific extensions)! And since I am not
> booking expenses that often as business or sales people I am not in sh*
> (but I would be, if I didn't have windows at all).

Sure, but in THAT situation you are probably talking about an IE6-only 
web application, which means you can't even switch away from XP - 
something that is causing MS a well deserved pain in the arse that is 
going to cost them dearly in terms of sales of their OS and Office 
products. People aren't budging from XP even with the looming EOL 
support deadline. I think most companies have just decided (quite 
rightly) that they don't need to pay more MS tax when they have 
something that works. There was a an article and a good forum discussion 
of this on el reg:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/08/01/windows_xp_medv_no_go/

>>> AC100 looks like a perfect choice for me, as I mostly do software
>>> development on a console based programs, and some PDF reading, and stay
>>> mostly in tiling WM and Emacs, performance is not as important as
>>> portability.
>>>
>>> Can't wait until will take my AC100 for a trip or to coffee shop.
>>
>> It's about 90% perfect in most ways. The only thing it could do with is
>> more RAM. Everything else I've managed to upgrade myself. But 510MB of
>> usable RAM is reasonably livable with, especially if you have decently
>> performing storage like a SuperTalent RC8. Expensive but very much worth it.
>
> Thanks, that really encouraged me even more :-) I will go for RC8 at
> some point...

It is _expensive_, though. It's the price you pay for small size.

> BTW, I'm really a complete hardware noob - any websites with tutorials
> or shops that sell ready to go basic kit of electronic tools? What kind
> of things do I need to have to start playing with it to the level I am
> able to install RC8 on my own without breaking the device? Comments on
> that much appreciated.

A generic set of small screwdrivers is enough for most things. For 
cutting up the casuing of the AC100 to get the RC8 in you will need a 
sharp stanley knife and/or a small dremel. It is a very delicate 
operation, and one you most definitely don't want to screw up.

>>> I looked at Efika, but it seems to be Cortex-A8, and also I didn't like
>>> it as AC100.
>> It is an inferior machine in almost every way. The main advantage it has
>> is that it ships with Linux and is quite well supported. If you are
>> willing to get your hands a little dirty, the AC100 is way, way better
>> in every way.
>
> I am not scared to swap kernel, install patches, suck the meat from the
> git, or even get my hands dirty with the kernel. (not much experience in
> that area but it's pretty much workable in short time I suppose).

Once you have upgraded various things (screen, cooling) you may want to 
look at my git tree for the AC100 (linked in the articles) - that has 
the patches required for the higher res screen and extra clock speeds. 
If you are OC-ing I suggest you make the "powersave" governor the 
default one, and then set the clock speed and governor at runtime to 
something else either in rc.local or /etc/sysconfig/cpuspeed. It makes 
the boot a little slower, but means you can do everything else from 
userspace without needing to rebuild the kernel if your Tegra2 can't 
quite reach 1400MHz stably.

Gordan