[Arm-netbook] proposal for GNU Netbook project

[Mark Constable]

On 27th March 2010, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
> > a) so what is the minimum useful hardware device that could be
> >   produced at the cheapest manufacturing costs?
> 
>  in netbook terms?  833mhz S5PC100, 256mb RAM, 9in or 10in LCD, 2gb
> NAND: $102 for 20k and make a small profit, maybe 3%.

Remove the tft, keyboard and battery, and wrap a plain case
around what's left and I'd be happy to pay half that price.

>  in "pc" terms? ncomputing are going to be doing a dual-core 1ghz ARM
> SoC for $20 called the "nuva". with other components being $10, you'll
> get a stonking HDMI video capable thin client for $30.  add a bit more
> and you've got something a bit more useful.

Okay, excellent, thanks for that, something to keep an eye on.

>  in "available now" pc terms, i.e. using e.g. 833mhz S5PC100, you
> could possibly get away with around $60 (remove LCD, keyboard, mouse,
> and lose the LVDS chip, from netbook above, basically)
> 
>  in "available _really_ right now" pc terms, that'll be the
> sheevaplug, priced retail at $99.

Yes, and at least that includes packaging and the cost for someone
to order and and hand it off to freight. It would be fairly reasonable
except for the $65 USD freight price to just about anywhere else in
the world. To Serbia, for instance, it's going to be over $100 USD
so it costs more for delivery than the product itself.

>  but it has to be said - this list is called "arm netbooks" for a reason :)

Apologies for hijacking the essence of the list but my point was
that I, for instance, would have a lot more confidence in the
results of these kind of discussions if there was a proven track
record and the cheapest way to get that is via a cheaper device
as a first run excercise.

>  also it has to be said, you _really_ want to watch out for tooling
> costs.  $50,000 for a single case design is not unreasonable, because
> getting the plastics right (as they shrink) is a black art.  you can't
> just "make a straight 1.1-to-1 mould" and heat-shrink it, you have to
> make a "curvy" mould that, when it is shrunk, the stresses pull
> inwards and against each other, the end result of which is that the
> plastic case _happens_ to be straight!

Good point, tricky business.

> > b) what is the cheapest way to get that product to end users
> >   anywhere in the world?
> 
>  if you're doing an entire container-load - 50,000 units - there's a
> company i have heard of that will do door-to-door delivery for $5 and
> door-to-shop (multi-box) delivery for $1.  goes by sea,

That sounds reasonable... where, who?

> > I'd love to buy, *right now*, a sub $200 USD so called smartbook
> > that does 1080p playback at 1920x1080 on a 10" screen.
> 
>  that's very unlikely to happen, and if it does, the cost will be well
> above $200.  the reason is simple: the transistor in each cell is a
> fixed size.  each cell size on e.g. a 1024x600 10in LCD, that's
> actually 3096x600 cells, sized 0.25mm x 0.08mm.  the transistor takes
> up ... what... 25% of that cell? (just guessing).  now you want approx
> double the dimensions in each direction, so that's a cell of size 0.12
> x 0.04mm, and that's almost the size of the transistor itself.  you've
> no room for the actual liquid crystal.

Take a Nokia N900 800x480 screen times 6 is about 10"/11" so it
would be feasible but, as you say, horrendously expensive in 2010.
It seems like 1360x768 will be the new gold standard resolution
which is good for the price of old stock 1024x600 screens.

>  i'd agree with the $60 estimate.  i'm not up to "second-guessing"
> what people want: i'd rather it was a netbook but hey if there are
> 9900 more people who want a low-cost... "thing", then great! who am i
> to stand in the way :)

I would like both forms, especially so if the headless brick version
was 1/3 the cost of the netbook form. Folks in 3rd world countries
could have the functionality (although not the mobility) of a netbook
by re-using old monitors and keyboard/mice etc.

>  so to get that down, i'm proposing local assembly of "parts" thus
> doing away with import duty; even (if michelle can get the machines
> and if we can justify the cost with enough orders - 20k+ would do it,
> we buy them for her) local manufacture of the PCB and even the case;
> free software licensed designs to encourage people to build their own
> machine, thus keeping costs down; etc. etc.

Minus import duty only works in one economic area, not the rest of
the world, and I suspect actually adds to the final packaged costs.
The cheaper a product becomes the less burden that any import duty
imposes. I mean, this device is available retail for about $75 USD
in AU, packaged, remote control, power supply, warranty...

-> http://www.midte.com/Products/MDT-MC001-E.html

and I'm sure it wasn't assembled here (guessing). No doubt it's MIPs
based but it comes fairly close to a headless netbook. Add $25 for
a more hackable ARM version with 512Mb ram and I wouldn't be on this
list because I'd be too busy... hacking on it. And it's a first of
a kind product here with no (or few) directly competing products.
This device might have been $50USD FOB @ 10K parts.

--markc