Hello
From your last update I havent seen an update as to how the os will be delivered/installed can you give an update? Will it be an SD card? Also when do you plan to start shipping boards the crowdfunding says nov of this year is that still correct? Im asking becuase i wanted to use the eoma68 to be a little low power stream box actually can this be done? Or i wanted to replace my original pi that runs pi-hole
I been very temped to buy a new raspberry pi 3 for streaming or a tiny intel nuc to do the same, but i held of because i truly want to support your project
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 6:53 PM, Joseph Lira saitdude@hotmail.com wrote:
Hello
From your last update I havent seen an update as to how the os will be delivered/installed can you give an update? Will it be an SD card? Also when do you plan to start shipping boards the crowdfunding says nov of this year is that still correct? Im asking becuase i wanted to use the eoma68 to be a little low power stream box actually can this be done? Or i wanted to replace my original pi that runs pi-hole
hi eric these are answered by the last updates, the answers don't change, they're not time-dependent, they're "goal" dependent, where the goals are in turn dependent on *other people* completing certain tasks.
so it's flat-out impossible to answer any question that starts with "when" :)
there's no NAND any more so micro-sd card it is. i asked for some help from people about how and what to ship... no response. 2,500 people and nobody made any off-the-wall suggestions: i must have asked in an unclear way. (p.s. thank you to the person who suggested places to look for low-cost micro-sd cards).
i've been in 3D design head-space for almost a month, it's... "deep rabbit-hole" territory.... driving me nuts but finally the last batch of critical parts are arriving tomorrow, i'll be able to start assembly of the experimental 3D printer.
near-100%-focus on that is why i've not been talking much.
http://forum.openscad.org/ANN-pyopenscad-spline-surface-generator-td21838.ht...
i reaally meant "deep down the rabbit hole" stuff... :) some fantastic shapes just completed tonight, a very exotic fan duct which takes twin 25mm fans from the *top* of the carriage holder, goes through twin ducts made from spiined "legs" that morph from squares to crescent moon shapes, which are joined back-to-back to create the outer and inner circle surrounding the extruder hot-end. a hollow arc-sphere duct is dropped on top of that and vanes added to create vortices but also act as duct support.
if you've seen the mendel90 fan duct the effeect is a bit like that but without the "support" problems (due to the vanes). i wanted the air to come out evenly all the way round the extruder but i also want to try it as a vortex ("tornado").
overall it's a fascinating and beautiful shape, in a startling and exotic way.
I been very temped to buy a new raspberry pi 3 for streaming or a tiny intel nuc to do the same, but i held of because i truly want to support your project
thanks eric, really appreciated.
I can offer one very emphatic suggestion regarding the MicroSD cards -- NOT EBAY.
I've not been bit personally, but I've heard the stories. Flash media of any meaningful capacity is usually worth about half the capacity advertised, with dodgy firmware to compensate.
I always buy from Newegg[dot]com but they don't really do volume pricing and they're not a wholesaler which is what you really need. Maybe one of your factory contacts over there has a pal at eg SanDisk? or maybe it might be worth a trip (back?) to Akihabara Market? (Didn't you go there at some point? I can't remember.)
On 23/07/17 22:28, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
there's no NAND any more so micro-sd card it is. i asked for some help from people about how and what to ship...
assumed you wanted china suppliers preferably but... there is uk based moby memory. i think they will help clients acquire bulk sdcards:
I have bought sdcards and cables from them, over the years.
..... oh drat! "Newbay Trading LTD (Moby Memory) has ceased trading.
With great dismay, the directors have taken steps to put the company into liquidation.
We ask you to direct all queries to the instructed insolvency practicioners moby@cmbukltd.co.uk"
so much for that option! was wondering why they did some recent flash sales.... (those cables where very good price ;).)
or today email only offer from gearbest samsung 65gb U3 $23 http://www.gearbest.com/memory-cards/pp_279099.html?wid=21&utm_source=ma...
oow £17 most tempting!
while im at if you don’t know then there is: apps for testing there is flashbench for speed tests and f3 (f3read f3write) for capacity testing. http://dev.laptop.org/~martin/flashbench/ theres a wiki page for flashbench somewhere.
i think f3 is in the Debian repo’s.
On 17.7.23 15:28, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
~~~
there's no NAND any more so micro-sd card it is. i asked for some help from people about how and what to ship... no response. 2,500 people and nobody made any off-the-wall suggestions: i must have asked in an unclear way. (p.s. thank you to the person who suggested places to look for low-cost micro-sd cards).
(for reference, I noticed that this topic was discussed somewhat with the subject-line "[Arm-netbook] Arm Netbook, Saw the update,", until 2017.6.26.)
here is a quote from https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/274-eoma68-a20-card...
QUOTE
1,000 microSD cards would need to be bought, prepared and tested. Some of the OS images are too large to fit onto a 4 GB Card: that means 8 or 16 GB is needed. 8 GB and 16 GB microSD cards are actually quite expensive, ~.
Any estimate of how much cost it'd add, per unit, to buy big-enough microSD-cards for the bigger distributions pledged for, and prepare and test the cards? Personally, I'm definitely fine with paying more for this. How about total cost for that? Depending on the amount, one or more persons might wish to make a donation to cover, or help cover, this cost for everyone.
So I am considering instead to simply provide download scripts for people,
Upon me receiving an "EOMA68-A20" (yeah, yeah, i still need to decide which colour or such of the "Libre-Tea" card to order), it might be the only "Linux-GNU" system I have at the time. (Migrating from "Windows" is taking time, sadly.) As far as I understand, if I just get download-scripts with it, then I'd need to either (1) "install" a "Linux-GNU"-distribution onto a computer OTHER than the EOMA-68 lap-top, or (2) use a "live" version of some "Linux-GNU"-distribution, just so that I could (3) download the OS for the "EOMA68-A20"-card. And my current lap-top, seems to not like the libre distributions which I have tried on it (at least, endless "sleep" with "Trisquel"). Maybe other backers or persons planning to back this, are likely to have the same problem if merely given download-scripts? I guess that a different way to put this problem, is- how "important" is it at this stage of EOMA68, to "include" persons who are not already running Linux-GNU? (Maybe this question is going to only be true for the "A20"-cards, because maybe others like "RK3388" shall not have this problem. And the "A20"-cards might not see many production-runs. But I still plan to back at least one "A20"-card.)
and/or to offer much smaller 128 MB or 256 MB microSD cards which have an absolute bare minimum OS on them, with scripts that will download an OS onto
I have tried hard to practice safe "Internet"-use with the systems which I have and previously had (yes, moving from "Microsoft" to a libre "OS", should be a quantum leap on that "issue"). How secure would this "bare minimum OS" be, for both down-loading AND installing onto a microSD-card (supplied by me)? Ideally, I hope that (1) it does not permit any connections other than downloading one of several particular "OS"-images, via "URLs" which are white-listed as part of the "bare minimum OS", and (2) it afterwards checks the image to see whether the crypto-graphic hash (better than MD5) matches the hash which the "bare minimum OS" says is valid for that image.
their own (self-supplied) 4 GB, 8 GB or 16 GB or other sized microSD card. ~ because the unanticipated iterations have eaten into the available budget. ~
~ this is something that needs to be discussed, how people would feel about the need to save on cost of production vs convenience and expectations. Some people, for example, may not have a reliable Internet connection or may not be expecting to connect their EOMA68-A20 Card to the Internet at all,
for my case, I'd plan to (1) configure the "OS" to my satisfaction, and next (2) download a satisfactory browser and configure that, and ONLY LATER (3) use "Internet" otherwise. but like Luke wrote, some persons might plan to not connect at all.
or for whatever reason may not actually have the means to download a 1.7 GB file off the Internet.
QUOTE'S end
(I manually added the > and the breaks. Hmm, is that going to work?)
is it feasible to offer several options to backers, like-
(1) scripts to download an offered distribution onto backer's self-supplied microSD-card (for persons willing and able to do the rest themselves). (2) low-capacity microSD-card with mini-OS and the same scripts as option #1 (for persons comfortable and willing and able to supply their own several-GB-microSD-card and at a command-line type "download" and "install"). (3) 4GB-card with one of the smaller distribution(s) which were offered. (4) 8GB-card with one of the bigger distributions, perhaps for an additional fee. (5) 16GB-card with one of the bigger distributions, perhaps for an additional fee.
if enough persons choose cheaper options, then that may "subsidize" the cases of some backers choosing costlier options.
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 2:07 AM, chadvellacott@sasktel.net wrote:
Any estimate of how much cost it'd add, per unit, to buy big-enough microSD-cards for the bigger distributions pledged for, and prepare and test the cards?
i'd need to do it. times a thousand. which is why i'm not hugely keen on the idea.
Personally, I'm definitely fine with paying more for this. How about total cost for that? Depending on the amount, one or more persons might wish to make a donation to cover, or help cover, this cost for everyone.
that would be great
computer OTHER than the EOMA-68 lap-top, or (2) use a "live" version of some "Linux-GNU"-distribution, just so that I could (3) download the OS for the "EOMA68-A20"-card.
one option is to get a very small card (512mb, 1gb) and put a "loader" OS on that. if they're $0.25 or $0.50 in qty 1000 then that's worth considering. instead of $4 for an 8GB card. say.
And my current lap-top, seems to not like the libre distributions which I have tried on it (at least, endless "sleep" with "Trisquel"). Maybe other backers or persons planning to back this, are likely to have the same problem if merely given download-scripts?
exactly.
I guess that a different way to put this problem, is-how "important" is it at this stage of EOMA68, to "include" persons who are not already running Linux-GNU?
honestly as this is early-phase anyone should expect to have things that they'll need to deal with... *but* for those people not able to cope i expect *you guys* (those with technical knowledge) to help them out.
(Maybe this question is going to only be true for the "A20"-cards, because maybe others like "RK3388" shall not have this problem. And the "A20"-cards might not see many production-runs. But I still plan to back at least one "A20"-card.)
yay. thank you.
and/or to offer much smaller 128 MB or 256 MB microSD cards which have an absolute bare minimum OS on them, with scripts that will download an OS onto
I have tried hard to practice safe "Internet"-use with the systems which I have and previously had (yes, moving from "Microsoft" to a libre "OS", should be a quantum leap on that "issue").
:)
How secure would this "bare minimum OS" be, for both down-loading AND installing onto a microSD-card (supplied by me)?
if it's designed properly, none.
Ideally, I hope that (1) it does not permit any connections other than downloading one of several particular "OS"-images, via "URLs" which are white-listed as part of the "bare minimum OS",
not whitelisted: hard-coded.
and (2) it afterwards checks the image to see whether the crypto-graphic hash (better than MD5) matches the hash which the "bare minimum OS" says is valid for that image.
bittorrent would automatically do that. command-line version is btdownloadheadless.
very tired. stopping here. sorry. please do carry on the conversation. i'll pick it up later.
l .
On 17.7.23 23:38, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: ~~~
On ~[month 7, day] 24, 2017 at 2:07 AM, chadvellacott@sasktel.net wrote:
~~~
"EOMA68-A20"-card.
one option is to get a very small card (512mb, 1gb) and put a "loader" OS on that. if they're $0.25 or $0.50 in qty 1000 then that's worth considering. instead of $4 for an 8GB card. say.
~~~ (Quoting Luke)
and/or to offer much smaller 128 MB or 256 MB microSD cards which have an absolute bare minimum OS on them, with scripts that will download an OS
~~~
How secure would this "bare minimum OS" be, for both down-loading AND installing onto a microSD-card (supplied by me)?
if it's designed properly, none.
I do not understand this response. I understand being tired.
Ideally, I hope that (1) it does not permit any connections other than downloading one of several particular "OS"-images, via "URLs" which are white-listed as part of the "bare minimum OS",
not whitelisted: hard-coded.
that is good too. But, if not significantly more work, then I hope that the mini-"OS" can be modified by A TECHNICALLY-MINDED user, to download and "install" a different one of the particular "OSs/images" offered. Something like a "config"-file whose content is like this:
BEGIN FILE 0 # lines like this, are comments # to download and install a different OS (to the microSD-card which you supply), change the number on the first line, as follows: # # 0 for Parabola 4.3 (3.9 GB) (comes with the RYF Libre Tea card) # 1 for Devuan 3.2 (4.1 GB) # 2 for Debian 2.1 custom without systemd (4.2 GB) # 3 for Fedora 1.0 (3.8 GB) # # but make sure that the microSD-card which you supply, is big enough! END FILE
(Of course, the sizes and version-numbers for the sample above, are largely just place-holders, not things which I checked for realisticness.)
This way, a user can try or use several different "OSs". It might even make it easier for Luke preparing the "microSD-cards" with the loader-"OS", because the difference between preparing a card for someone who backed a "Parabola"-card, is only one byte (one key-press) different from preparing a card for someone who backed a different card.
Furthermore, if one or more backers end up unhappy with what they receive for the "OS" which they backed, then this method probably makes it FAR easier to help those backers try a different "OS".
As long as the change requires manually editing a configuration-file, it should be an adequately-technical task to satisfy the "RYF"-criterion of not offering non-libre "software" to average users.
and (2) it afterwards checks the image to see whether the crypto-graphic hash (better than MD5) matches the hash which the "bare minimum OS" says is valid for that image.
bittorrent would automatically do that. command-line version is btdownloadheadless.
sounds good. I imagine that any necessary further details on using this, can come later. but I hope that "headless" does not mean that we do not even get a statement of progress with numbers, something like Downloading. done 1% ... or Downloading. amount left to download is 10 mb ... or Downloaded 3990 mb of 4000 mb ...
and I hope that we get something similar for "installing". Some such estimate of progress, is valuable (1) for trouble-shooting if necessary, and (2) for backers to judge when they should next come back to check whether it is done, like 5 minutes later or 1 day later.
very tired. stopping here. sorry. please do carry on the conversation. i'll pick it up later.
l
I been very temped to buy a new raspberry pi 3 for streaming or a tiny intel nuc to do the same, but i held of because i truly want to support your project
thanks eric, really appreciated.
I may wait to see what people say about your laptop once they have it, before buying, I hope you understand, I still want to support your cause, I just want to know the difficulty of putting the pieces together and also, the stability/sturdiness.
I will in 2018. I wish you the best Luke. May you be blessed for your ethics.
:)
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 4:12 PM, zap calmstorm@posteo.de wrote:
I been very temped to buy a new raspberry pi 3 for streaming or a tiny intel nuc to do the same, but i held of because i truly want to support your project
thanks eric, really appreciated.
I may wait to see what people say about your laptop once they have it, before buying, I hope you understand, I still want to support your cause, I just want to know the difficulty of putting the pieces together and also, the stability/sturdiness.
i'll be using the first 10 to create videos and documentation. the prototype i have here is pretty sturdy, not least because it's very light (1.1kg), but also because i went to a lot of trouble to design shapes with internal structural support. one piece 160mm long, it actually got to be dangerous to try to bend / snap it, i was applying so much force i was concerned that shards might fly off. applying a *lot* of pressure - enough to make marks on my fingers - only bent it about 2-3mm out of shape.
I will in 2018. I wish you the best Luke. May you be blessed for your ethics.
thx zap :)
On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
it actually got to be dangerous to try to bend / snap it, i was applying so much force i was concerned that shards might fly off. applying a *lot* of pressure - enough to make marks on my fingers - only bent it about 2-3mm out of shape.
Did you also try some fall tests, because that's more likely to happen in real life. Especially as the case design is not monilithic (if I remember correctly), the shock forces will get applied to the weakest parts.
Hey, it's OK if you actually didn't ;-)
You could test with pieces that had 3d printing problems, so as not to destroy any good ones.
And then label the project as being Eco-consciously tested !
--- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 12:12 PM, Vincent Legoll vincent.legoll@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net wrote:
it actually got to be dangerous to try to bend / snap it, i was applying so much force i was concerned that shards might fly off. applying a *lot* of pressure - enough to make marks on my fingers - only bent it about 2-3mm out of shape.
Did you also try some fall tests, because that's more likely to happen in real life.
on the one prototype being used for the crowd-funding?? naah!
Especially as the case design is not monilithic (if I remember correctly), the shock forces will get applied to the weakest parts.
Hey, it's OK if you actually didn't ;-)
well... honestly... if people do drop it, they're on their own, and get to keep all the pieces. buuuut... that's no different from any mass-volume product... the difference being: you get to be able to 3D-print your *own* replacement parts, and repair it yourself.
as opposed to "throw the whole thing out"
You could test with pieces that had 3d printing problems, so as not to destroy any good ones.
And then label the project as being Eco-consciously tested !
mmm... yyeahh not today :)
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