-------- Original Message -------- From: Neil Jansen njansen1@gmail.com Apparently from: arm-netbook-bounces@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Eco-Conscious Computing arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] mali gpu reverse engineering lkcl may ignore Date: Mon, 22 May 2017 17:28:21 -0400
If you reinterpret what I write then tell on what grounds. I think lkcl's reasons for not reverse engineering a mali are right. Weighing them up against the importance of getting a libre software gpu, I reach the conclusion that the reverse engineering should be done.
There have been some remarks about the probability of a successful crowd funding. I mentioned the numbers 50000 people, each paying 5euro. Notice on this email list, people want to pay 5eu, if they get the software in question. It is safe to say more than 10 million people have gnulinux on their computer? A major part of them know about the importance of libre software and a part of them would want to act on it. I agree about the responses on the practicability of a crowd funding. I am not sure a crowd funding can be done successfully. I would like to know why? Why cannot such campaigns be coordinated centralized? We should have a known entity, which would approve libre software related crowd fundings. People would know them to not be scams. Why does an entity like the free software foundation not take on this task? I should ask them. About these fragmented crowd fundings, you yourself have to make a validation, which is difficult. When lkcl initiated his pc card crowd funding, I did not know him. I still mostly do not. On trisquel's forum people referenced thinkpenguin. Thinkpenguin endorsed lkcl. That is why I supported lkcl. Is the free software foundation not involved because they fear scandals or not have enough resources? The matter about libre software consumer electronics, I consider highly important.
There have been remarks about the retaliation towards people who want to do reverse engineering. How to deal with it. One option would be to let one entity collect the funding, manage public relations and another hidden team do the reverse engineering. Everything still legal on taxes. Legalities seems to be an important issue. Are these legal concerns an american matter? I do not know everything which may happen but if the public part of the crowd funding is located in eu, I think a campaign should be fine.
On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 03:07:45PM -0400, ronwirring@Safe-mail.net wrote:
If you reinterpret what I write then tell on what grounds. I think lkcl's reasons for not reverse engineering a mali are right.
It is difficult to follow your argumentation. You write that you agree and disagree in the next sentence.
Weighing them up against the importance of getting a libre software gpu, I reach the conclusion that the reverse engineering should be done.
Before you plan a difficult crowd funding campaign and involve the FSF, please tell us your counter arguments to Lukes reasoning on a technical and ethical level. For example to the following points I am quoting from Lukes email reply to you in the thread about "firefly 3399 all source software disclosed?": - "take one of the "open gpus" or parts of them and use that." - "the sad fact of reverse-engineering: all that effort, with *no guarantee of success*.... just to get something that's years out-of-date." - "well, with the same money it would be possible to make our own libre processor, with enough extensions to be able to do 3D graphics *without* paying anyone a cent."
There have been some remarks about the probability of a successful crowd funding. I mentioned the numbers 50000 people, each paying 5euro. Notice on this email list, people want to pay 5eu, if they get the software in question. It is safe to say more than 10 million people have gnulinux on their computer? A major part of them know about the importance of libre software and a part of them would want to act on it.
I don't know if your numbers are correct but it seems important to me to point out that only a fraction of all GNU/Linux Users own a device with a mali GPU. Only a part of that group would in principle support such a campaign. Only some of the willing will actually fund the campaign...
Pablo
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