arm-netbook July 2018

arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk

19 participants
17 discussions

Campaign Schedule and Future Sales/Products
by Paul Boddie 18 Jul '18

18 Jul '18

I saw the recent response to my enquiry ("EOMA68-A20 Prototype Status") which was augmented by a campaign update: "It’s going to take about a month to have the 8 Gbit 1600 MHz DDR3 x8 RAM ICs manufactured: we’re on the way. [...] All in all, it will likely take three months after getting the cards back from assembly before shipping begins. That puts actual delivery of the first units in late October." https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/2-7-5-samples- received-dram-is-ok-micro-hdmi-to-confirm This new information is much appreciated, and I hope that everything continues going to plan. Meanwhile, I noticed that the matter of future sales and products arose in another thread, with the intention being expressed that others will be producing and selling boards in future. Now, there may have been some confusion in that other thread because I seem to recall talk of follow-up campaigns (although these may have been related to other hardware projects, not computer cards). Indeed, the August 2016 campaign update about the product roadmap had the following to say: "We need your backing for this project and the current Computer Card before we can be in an established financial position to properly evaluate and bring you these faster Computer Cards." https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/product-roadmap The crucial question in the context of the above is therefore the following: who exactly is "we"? If not any of the parties behind the current campaign, who might it be? Here, I can understand some confusion or a mismatch in expectations. But in any case, this discussion of future sales and products reminded me of a number of things, the first of which being the board designs: "The only exception to this rule to release everything in advance is the PCB CAD files for the Computer Card. We’re planning to release the PCB CAD files for the Computer card once sufficient units are hit that ensures any third party manufacturing runs will not undermine the project’s development or stability." https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/crowdfunding Although "the point about the A20 running out of time" [1] has been made repeatedly since the start of the campaign (this quote being from March 2017 in the context of suitable NAND ICs), might it be envisaged that the design files be released for the A20 card to perhaps *stimulate* the project's development and stability after this campaign concludes? Has there been any constructive interest from anyone to produce more boards using this design? I see that Olimex have recently introduced a variant of one of their A20-based products using the compatible T2 SoC [2]. So, the A20 still has an audience and a commercial life, apparently. Another thing I found myself considering is the matter of the other cards mentioned during the course of the campaign. If they are not going to be offered via future campaigns, will they be offered by existing partners or collaborators? For instance: http://rhombus-tech.net/ingenic/jz4775/ http://rhombus-tech.net/rock_chips/rk3288/ http://rhombus-tech.net/nexell/s5p6818/ The first two of these had been prototyped, as I recall (and has been documented), and so I imagine that there is some value in seeing them become products, subject to economic and technical viability, the latter of which reminding me of the following remarks: "The rk3288 is not a low-power chip, and the heat sink supplied (pictured above), is not adequate for any CPU-intensive activity, quickly throttling performance when it gets too hot." https://forum.armbian.com/topic/4614-asus-tinker-board/ (The above is just an acknowledgement of the difficulties of selecting products, not an invitation to discuss the details.) Finally, I realised that the current campaign began almost two years ago. I think the second anniversary of its launch will be on Friday this coming week. It would be interesting to hear any reflections on the position of this initiative two years on, whether (and how) the roadmap might change, and what still needs to be done to bring this modular computing vision to fruition. Apologies if I missed various updates or announcements that happen to answer some of my questions! Paul [1] https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/complexities-of- hardware-progress-and-travel [2] https://olimex.wordpress.com/2018/06/20/a20-olinuxino-lime-revision-h-is- now-in-stock-the-oshw-linux-computer-now-support-emmc-and-can-be-produced- with-industrial-grade-temperature-4085c/

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kuala lumpur airport on way chennai
by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton 16 Jul '18

16 Jul '18

On way to 9th RISCV workshop in chennai, preliminary slides here http://hands.com/~lkcl/libre_riscv_chennai_2018.pdf Contains links to other talks but not accepted ones. Paul Boddie i still owe you a reply to your message. New crowdfunding campaign being discussed, help raise awareness. Also included would like to do a Libre 3D GPU. Actually GPGPU so using gallium3d-llvm with minor acceleration and adequate vectorisation. -- --- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

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low cost pcb wifi antenna
by Bill Kontos 14 Jul '18

14 Jul '18

This just came into my attention: https://www.raspberrypi.org/magpi/pi-zero-w-wireless-antenna-design/ Very interesting and potentially useful in the future. Note that the antenna design is available for licensing.

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Nokia's heavy reliance to Intel might make them to fail once again
by Wean Irdeh 13 Jul '18

13 Jul '18

https://www.semiaccurate.com/2018/07/02/intel-custom-foundrys-10nm-meltdown… Who's your guess on the article? Before Nokia merged with Alcatel-Lucent, Reefshark was produced by Alcatel-Lucent and manufactured in TSMC. Now that Nokia and Alcatel-Lucent are one, the ReefShark is using Intel's 10nm technology for no apparent reason and we all know Intel's 10nm is a disaster right now. I'm not surprised if Nokia is actually the one who get mentioned on the article

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Nokia Documentary
by Alexander Ross 13 Jul '18

13 Jul '18

Watched tonight the doc which was shown on bbc4 about nokias beginning, middle and downfall. this riscv stuff is kinda sounding a little like it... :/ doc name: The_Rise_and_Fall_of_Nokia Nokia main problems seam to be: Swapped with many manipulative managers that came in as it grew. The west (aka yet again America) using monopoly to crush/control competition. Nokia stopped being a open, idea sharing company after that. I didn’t know there was a time when they didn’t patent! That was a surprise. I had always assumed they where a evilcorp.

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EOMA68-A20 Prototype Status
by Paul Boddie 02 Jul '18

02 Jul '18

Hello, I don't want to intrude with questions whose answers are already known, but back in January there were estimates of "five to seven months" with regard to "shipping", by which I presume that the final hardware was meant: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/eoma68-a20-2-7-5- gerbers-off-to-factory-thank-you-to-everyone-for-the-sponsorship However, there was also the matter of prototypes being made. This was covered in the February update: "We might get lucky and have the PCBs back, if so I will post photographs." https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/fosdem-2018-shakti- project-tape-out-nearly-done-2-7-5-eoma68-a20-pcbs The March update suggests that the prototypes were still waiting for RAM: "Mike is following up on pricing for Samsung DDR3 RAM, which appears to be available. I want one other guaranteed supply of a completely different RAM IC and I will tell him to go ahead with the 10 samples… but not until we have an absolute guarantee of availability. Then once the samples are done we have a clear and extremely simple and straightforward production schedule to follow." https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/fosdem-recap-risc-… update-and-certification-marks The April update made a mention of another source of RAM, but nothing new about the prototype schedule: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/ddr3-ram-and-a-lib… risc-v-soc Are there any further updates on this situation? I imagine that the production schedule is more or less "when it is ready", as I have always understood it, but I did wonder whether there had been further progress with the prototypes. Paul

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Re: [Arm-netbook] [Campaign Question] The project page (crowdsupp...
by lkcl 02 Jul '18

02 Jul '18

thanks for this - it's really appreciated, i'm going to cc the mailing list, bcc'ing you, and taking out your email address. there is something which i've not put on the page (however it has been discussed many times over the years on the mailing list). right now the last thing that's needed is for a huge number of non-technical individuals to come online at once and overwhelm the *volunteer* technical members of the mailing list. you may not be aware of this but the total number of people working full-time paid-up to work on this project is presently ZERO. as in: the total number of people with full-time funding to work on this project is: ZERO. as this was an anticipated possibility as far back as 3+ years ago the page was *deliberately* designed to attract TECHNICALLY aware individuals and to DISCOURAGE non-technically-aware users: people who are self-starters, "tinkerers" and electronics experts. from that base of people, when they receive their pledged items, a small community will grow at a pace that they can cope with, who will then be able to create the documentation, wiki pages, update the source code and so on. by *that* time, *THEN* and ***ONLY*** then will the project be in a state where it can accommodate non-technical end-users. at that point people who can do "sales", companies that can take "orders" will be needed (because i cannot do that, due to being the Certification Mark holder). at *that* point, the advice that you've given below will become relevant. hope that helps clarify. l. On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 4:04 PM, Crowd Supply <orders(a)crowdsupply.com> wrote: > submitted a question about your project, "Earth-friendly > EOMA68 Computing Devices": > > The project page (crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop) can be difficult to > read through & understand because of the heavy use of acronyms without > accompanying long-names/full-names and ELI5 definitions. I have a general > background in development & admin and I had to look up the long name and > definition for a number of the acronyms used. This approach, while more > concise, is going to be very off-putting to many people who are more used to > buying pre-built computers than building their own. I love the idea of this > project and want to see it succeed, but the harder the content is to read for > non-hardware geeks, the harder it will be to convince non-hardware geeks to > spend their money on it. > Please consider reserving some of those terms for tech specs, white papers, > etc., and replace them with descriptions &/or more generic terms that your > neighbors, friends, or relatives who ask you to help them fix their computers > or connect their new printers, etc., will understand. Better yet, ask some of > those people to read through your copy and give feedback on comprehension and > overall impression by non-computer geeks. If you don't want to reach that > audience, then please pick the lowest technical knowledge customer group you do > want to reach and get their feedback. Maybe it's the type of person who has > never worked in IT, but can attach plug & play devices, set up Wi-Fi on their > own, etc. > Again, I really do want to see projects like this succeed. Best of luck and > I've already bookmarked this for future reference. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Crowd Supply > https://www.crowdsupply.com > 811 SE Stark St, #300 > Portland, OR 97214-1241 > 800-554-2014

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arm-netbook July 2018