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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 05/10/2017 02:23 PM, Bill Kontos
      wrote:<br>
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cite="mid:CA+yRhotUAgDm2DHWrZdwTBxs3LMvofXw+CMvunykpAs3XiWzWA@mail.gmail.com"
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          <div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 7:46 PM, Luke
            Kenneth Casson Leighton <span dir="ltr"><<a
                moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:lkcl@lkcl.net"
                target="_blank">lkcl@lkcl.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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              <br>
               now that i think about it, i believe i heard of something
              about 20<br>
              years ago called the humanist society (or something like
              that).<br>
              apparently they live their lives according to a really
              quite [humane]<br>
              wonderful "code"... just without the bits about "god"
              attached.<br>
              <br>
               so i'd say definitively yes, you can... it's just that
              you'd have to<br>
              choose to do so, and that can be really tough, to
              research, assess and<br>
              then make the decision to adhere to a particular code.  it
              means<br>
              making changes in your life which might cost you friends,
              your job<br>
              (because the company asks you to do something that is
              against your<br>
              newly-chosen "code")...<br>
              <br>
               <br>
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            <div>Exactly this. I always prefer to do something by
              choice. Being manipulated is the one thing that I hate the
              most in life. But this takes time, and I have come to a
              very similar conclusion to this society you are talking
              about, that following 95% of the Christian ethics is a
              good idea because it makes for the most benefit for the
              society as a total. But I find having to believe that god
              exists and he will punish me for not following these
              ethics in order to be able follow them utterly pointless.</div>
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    <br>
    Well, I would say its not about, following these ethics perfectly,
    it is impossible to do so.<br>
    <br>
    I would say the act of trying to be a good person and being faithful
    to him for the goodness he gives you is more important than always
    obeying especially if your heart is far from him.  That's just my
    thought.<br>
    <br>
    Punishment in particular though is something he gives to arrogant
    people who defy him while pretending to obey.<br>
    <br>
    the current conservative party in America is an example of the
    pharisees from the bible.<br>
    <br>
    They have nothing to look forward to that's a fact. Though they
    reject such possibilities in their heart bitterly and cling to their
    evil thoughts.<br>
    <br>
    To be honest, even atheists have a better chance of getting into
    heaven than those false teachers.<br>
    <br>
    Though both sides if they don't repent at some point, are lost.<br>
    <br>
    This is my understanding of what hell is for. Not for the average
    person, but for those who pretend they are good and really are the
    opposite.  to sum it up, hypocrisy. <br>
    <br>
    Life is a challenge but hypocrisy is unneeded.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
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cite="mid:CA+yRhotUAgDm2DHWrZdwTBxs3LMvofXw+CMvunykpAs3XiWzWA@mail.gmail.com"
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