<div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 10:37 AM, Tzafrir Cohen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tzafrir@cohens.org.il" target="_blank">tzafrir@cohens.org.il</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class="">On Thu, Feb 09, 2017 at 02:59:02PM +0000, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:<br>
> ---<br>
> crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: <a href="https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.crowdsupply.com/<wbr>eoma68</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 1:50 PM, Stefan Monnier <<a href="mailto:monnier@iro.umontreal.ca">monnier@iro.umontreal.ca</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> > W.r.t to logging, I've agree that you're probably better off logging to<br>
> > RAM (or to a remote host) than to a local "disk", and AFAIK that's the<br>
> > default behavior of systemd anyway.<br>
><br>
> with the exception of fedora which has only a few backers i will NOT<br>
> be distributing a filesystem which contains the completely<br>
> unethically-developed and very dangerous systemd application. having<br>
> evaluated its development, watched the predicted security<br>
> vulnerabilities unfold and cause massive disruption, and witnessed its<br>
> "ram it down people's throats" deployment without due consideration or<br>
> consultation with end-users, nor the distros respecting end-users<br>
> rights to NOT be forced into using it, i cannot and will not be<br>
> associated or endorse such totally unethical behaviour, so will be<br>
> removing it from all rootfs images. post-distribution, if people then<br>
> wish to undo that because they find systemd to be useful and have no<br>
> objections to its usage they are entirely free to do so.<br>
<br>
</span>I very much like systemd and can hardly see myself using a system<br>
without it. Thus I will personally want to have systemd on my systems.<br>
Please don't make that too difficult a task for me.<br>
<br>
That is: you don't like systemd? fine. Installing Debian without it is<br>
rather simple:<br>
<a href="https://wiki.debian.org/systemd#Installing_without_systemd" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wiki.debian.org/<wbr>systemd#Installing_without_<wbr>systemd</a></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Please don't spread this mis-information. Installing Debian without systemd is far from simple, and many things just won't work right as systemd has become a dependency on more and more packages.<br><br></div><div>It's possible, yes, but it's not simple, not supported, and tends to leave the user debugging weird behaviours.<br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
In that case, all I'll have to do would be to install a few more<br>
packages (and maybe disable syslog logging to reduce unnecessary disk<br>
writes, and similar tweaks).<br>
<br>
However, if "removing it from the rootfs" means something similar to<br>
Devuan, then It'll probably be simpler for me to reinstall the image<br>
with a proper Debian system.<br>
<br>
Please don't make my life complicated.<br>
<span class="im HOEnZb"><br>
--<br>
Tzafrir Cohen | <a href="mailto:tzafrir@jabber.org">tzafrir@jabber.org</a> | VIM is<br>
<a href="http://tzafrir.org.il" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://tzafrir.org.il</a> | | a Mutt's<br>
<a href="mailto:tzafrir@cohens.org.il">tzafrir@cohens.org.il</a> | | best<br>
<a href="mailto:tzafrir@debian.org">tzafrir@debian.org</a> | | friend<br>
<br>
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