Thanks, Tom, hope to see similar product soon.<div><br></div><div>About HDMI - it is somehow controversal - having full size male HDMI on the stick will bring the size up. Having small miniHDMI (like tablets), or even microHDMI (like smartphones) will reduce the size. But than you need a cable.</div>
<div>In some cases plugging such big dongle (with full size connector) is simply bad because it might not fit given TVs (depending on the angle of the connector and placement behind the TV). And again you need additional cable for power supply. Many (if not all) modern TVs export USB connector where you can take the power supply directly from the TV. Some limit USB to service use only, some give full media player features and even USB-2-LAN support. But having available power without additional adapter and so on is an extra. Sure you cannot rely only on this, because this power goes away when TV is off, but it is a feature you don't want to leave out. Probably microUSB is fine for power supply, and maybe for USB client (device) mode (for ADB or ADK or LiveSuit). There are a lot of low end devices (like TP-LINK "3G" routers) that use micro USB type of power adapter. A lot of mobile phones already employ microUSB for charging. And microUSB OTG is really tiny form factor for dual-role USB connection.</div>
<div>I hope extension connections could be made without affecting the bill of materials - I have seen a lot of CPU modules for tablets (with InfoTMIC SoC, and with Telechips, and some Samsung ones). They use no connectors but simply plated vias on the edge of the pcb like extension header (similar to common bluetooth modules with CSR seen on ebay). I think this is really cheap to manufacture. Another way is to make one of the sides of the PCB like SODIMM module. So the baseboard will have SODIMM connector (slot) to host the module. </div>
<div>Freescale are using PCI express form factor - their tower system (and KwikStick module) have plated contacts with footprint of a dummy PCI-E x16 card. This plugs in PCI-E x16 slot ( I use desoldered one from defective PC mainboard). Probably x16 is not needed but having 20 pins is a good start. Having 40+ pins might even route out the LCD interface and this opens the module for various applications. <br>
</div><div>My point is that trying to make the smallest possible android TV dongle is a bad direction - with all my respect to the people in Allwinner, you cannot compete with TI or Samsung and their Package-on-package solution. We all have seen pandaboard and Omap4 with 1GByte of RAM in package that is probably half the area of the A10 chip. So the title for "world tiniest stick" will go to the company that makes stick with TI or Samsung. </div>
<div>There is already one stick with A10, this MK802, probably soon will come others, with A10 or different chips. If somebody wants to make something new, that targets other audience, that it has to provide different features. My proposal is to focus on this audience that is reading this list, and probably think on how to make it friendly for others, like Arduino lovers. In this area you don't want to squeze out each square mm of the board.</div>
<div>Olimex will make something with A13 - this is nice, and covers some applications. In parallel, somebody might want to do the A10 type, but opening it for bigger customization. If Olimex make a A10 variant, they will try to fit all possible interfaces to one "PCBA". This is already seen with Mele or soon-to-come next PCBAs for STB with A10. There is nothing wrong with Olimex style, but I don't want to pay the premium of several non-needed connectors and chips that I would not use (and another premium that the product is made in limited quanities because it can never fit the BOM of serial production). They will have to put RS232 on board, but what if I need TTL level UART? Should I desolder MAX and remove the connector? Some of us prefer to have TTL level, and to add level shifter externally, only if needed. Some of us don't want to invest in developing 6-layer board when it will be simply a copy of reference design. I want to make simple breadboard, than 2 or 4-layer custom board that will host only some sensors or microcontroller that will do "my special things". Knowing the high speed differential signaling is out of my way, and somebody has soldered the BGAs for extra $20. I can live with this +$20 until my production is below, let's say, 1000 pieces. Than I can think of custom PCB. But 20 developers like me, with 1000 modules, will bring the price of the module down to the real BOM. Something that can never happen if the board is more like development board than System-on-module. (or, make it 200 developers X 100 pieces, or 2000 developers X 10 pieces, or, at the end, 20000 Arduino users X 1?).</div>
<div>You know that some arduino shields with ethernet or wi-fi are selling for 40USD and above - without the actual Arduino for 20-30 more? What is the reason behing this - I think that as long as the product is easy to work with, they would not mind buying complete system for $50?</div>
<div>If Hyston PCBA is selling for $30, I think that $50 for a board with extension lines should be possible? If Allwinner (or Wits) have reference design for similar product, how much work would it be to add lines to the extension, and route them?</div>
<div><br></div><div>In general, USB HOST is nice alternative too - I can take $2 PIC with USB, or FTDI and do my things, and this is my choice up to now. But when I need 3G networking, that I need 2 USB host ports (or a hub). But this does not mean that I want 7-port hub intergrated into the stick, nether 24V I/O with galvanic isolation ...</div>
<div><br><div class="gmail_quote">2012/5/28 cnxsoft <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:cnxsoft@cnx-software.com" target="_blank">cnxsoft@cnx-software.com</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><div class="im">
On 28/05/2012 20:14, Tom Cubie wrote:
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 1:48 PM, krasi
gichev <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:krasimirr@gmail.com" target="_blank">krasimirr@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
It is already available here for $73:
<div><a href="http://www.merimobiles.com/MK802_Allwinner_A10_Android_4_0_TV_Box_2160P_HDMI_p/meri4833.htm" target="_blank">http://www.merimobiles.com/MK802_Allwinner_A10_Android_4_0_TV_Box_2160P_HDMI_p/meri4833.htm</a> </div>
</blockquote>
<div>my friends is going to build such a product(without the
case), A10, HDMI, small size,</div>
<div>target at $49, will it be popular?</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote></div>
This type of board could be popular, especially once you get Linux
distributions and XBMC working. If the product is popular, custom
cases will appear like it's done for the Raspberry Pi. <br>
To save cost he might consider scrapping the NAND flash and let
people use a microSD card to boot the system. The main drawback with
this is possible performance degradation with SD, but I have not
seen benchmarks about this.<br>
If your friend can make a case that can be plugged directly into the
TV (HDMI) without cable and powered by USB (small USB cable to the
TV USB port) it will be even more successful.<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
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