From paul at boddie.org.uk  Mon Nov 21 13:52:20 2022
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 14:52:20 +0100
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CABnoYk1mj-juiQ3SPA=tuwGBjsL0rtkwMqN2dZ_OBHv_uvZWxA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<09b38bad-5738-a7de-25f1-ea409876c7a0@gmail.com>
	<CABnoYk1mj-juiQ3SPA=tuwGBjsL0rtkwMqN2dZ_OBHv_uvZWxA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>

On Tuesday, 21 December 2021 09:27:21 CET Felix wrote:
> As alway, hope you are doing well, but I can't avoid to ask :P Any follow
> up?

Coming up on a year after this last message and two years after the last Crowd 
Supply update, I wonder if there is any news at all. I also notice that 
ThinkPenguin no longer does business with anyone based in Europe supposedly 
due to GDPR legislation.

Apparently, asking Crowd Supply about project status tends to elicit a 
response directing inquirers to the project creators. One is too busy and 
directs us to the other who is incommunicative. It all seems like a lost 
opportunity, really.

Paul




From petercarlson79 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 14:27:38 2022
From: petercarlson79 at gmail.com (Peter Carlson)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 14:27:38 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<09b38bad-5738-a7de-25f1-ea409876c7a0@gmail.com>
	<CABnoYk1mj-juiQ3SPA=tuwGBjsL0rtkwMqN2dZ_OBHv_uvZWxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
Message-ID: <CAOqiJ40sc54_kiT7Wsg3Fq0hj41nye8-O7o3b0pVASMB7D8GwQ@mail.gmail.com>

Yes sadly this is the only Crowd Supply project I have contributed to that
has not delivered.
I had great hopes but alas I fear I am disappointed.
Thanks
Peter Carlson


On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 1:52 PM Paul Boddie <paul at boddie.org.uk> wrote:

> On Tuesday, 21 December 2021 09:27:21 CET Felix wrote:
> > As alway, hope you are doing well, but I can't avoid to ask :P Any follow
> > up?
>
> Coming up on a year after this last message and two years after the last
> Crowd
> Supply update, I wonder if there is any news at all. I also notice that
> ThinkPenguin no longer does business with anyone based in Europe
> supposedly
> due to GDPR legislation.
>
> Apparently, asking Crowd Supply about project status tends to elicit a
> response directing inquirers to the project creators. One is too busy and
> directs us to the other who is incommunicative. It all seems like a lost
> opportunity, really.
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook at lists.phcomp.co.uk
> http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
> Send large attachments to arm-netbook at files.phcomp.co.uk

From lkcl at lkcl.net  Mon Nov 21 15:32:51 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 15:32:51 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<09b38bad-5738-a7de-25f1-ea409876c7a0@gmail.com>
	<CABnoYk1mj-juiQ3SPA=tuwGBjsL0rtkwMqN2dZ_OBHv_uvZWxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDwhWW6wTKqF1KabJLk-Yp9xmRgKzZV_GKb2MowEp2n9mQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Monday, November 21, 2022, Paul Boddie <paul at boddie.org.uk> wrote:
due to GDPR legislation.
>
> Apparently, asking Crowd Supply about project status tends to elicit a
> response directing inquirers to the project creators.

Chris *is* one of the project creators.

this response is evasion by Chris.

he is in possession of 95 Cards and he is evading responding
as to their whereabouts.

you need to *specifically* request him to answer solely and
specifically "where are the 95 Cards sent to him in March 2020".

please PUBLISH the response, in full, here on the mailing list.
we need a public audit trail.

> One is too busy and
> directs us to the other who is incommunicative.

wrong.

i have been refraining from speaking publicly in order to
protect Chris, who sponsored me with USD 50,000 of his company's
money.

now that *you* have raised this publicly (not me) i can respond
and correct mistakes that you make above.

over the past 2 years over 40 email messages have been sent,
even Joshua Lifton has requested a phone call to be returned.
multiple people have raised tickets on their support system.

in 20+ months we have not received ONE response.

you are literally the first person to have even confirmed that
there is even two-way communication (even though it is evasion)

can you please try again, this time VERY SPECIFICALLY and ONLY
asking "where are the 95 Cards sent to your premises, Mar 2020"
nothing more. it is critically important NOT to ask anything else

the next logical followup question can then be sent but only
AFTER that first question has been answered.

if you are unsuccessful (ignored like everyone else) then at that
point i will have no other alternative but to publish the
Crowdsupply Update that i have INTENTIONALLY not been publishing
which informs 2,500 people that, effectively, Chris, despite
being a project creator and financial sponsor, is in possession
of 95 Production Cards that are legally the property of 95 of the
Backers, and that he is refusing to say where they are currently
located.  the reasons why i have refrained from publishing such
an update should be pretty damn obvious.

thanks Paul.

l.


-- 
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

From lkcl at lkcl.net  Mon Nov 21 15:46:39 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 15:46:39 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CAOqiJ40sc54_kiT7Wsg3Fq0hj41nye8-O7o3b0pVASMB7D8GwQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<09b38bad-5738-a7de-25f1-ea409876c7a0@gmail.com>
	<CABnoYk1mj-juiQ3SPA=tuwGBjsL0rtkwMqN2dZ_OBHv_uvZWxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAOqiJ40sc54_kiT7Wsg3Fq0hj41nye8-O7o3b0pVASMB7D8GwQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDx8mLecuoZoE0BhFWerHANac5TMqcZ42YTDeL5hrOTAZA@mail.gmail.com>

On Monday, November 21, 2022, Peter Carlson <petercarlson79 at gmail.com>
wrote:
> Yes sadly this is the only Crowd Supply project I have contributed to that
> has not delivered.

Peter, respectfully, this is not a productive or useful
response (or attitude). this has always been a community
project and it is therefore down to YOU to say, instead of
"you are a moron for failing to deliver", instead to say
"HOW CAN I HELP"

question: would you like to help?

when i receive a response "yes" (publicly, here, so that it
is clear to everyone that i have not made any assumptions)
i will then follow up with some SUGGESTIONs on ways that you
can HELP, and you are then free and clear to DECIDE FOR YOURSELF
if you wish to follow the suggested course of action.

ultimately this project lives or dies based on action that
*you* decide to take.

assuming that i can and will do everything and then blaming
me when nothing happens is worse than "not ok", it is deeply
disrespectful and making me extremely angry given how much
*i* have done. for you.

if anyone else would like to similarly HELP then please respond
to this message (publicly)

l.


-- 
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

From petercarlson79 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 15:59:47 2022
From: petercarlson79 at gmail.com (Peter Carlson)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 15:59:47 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CAPweEDx8mLecuoZoE0BhFWerHANac5TMqcZ42YTDeL5hrOTAZA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<09b38bad-5738-a7de-25f1-ea409876c7a0@gmail.com>
	<CABnoYk1mj-juiQ3SPA=tuwGBjsL0rtkwMqN2dZ_OBHv_uvZWxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAOqiJ40sc54_kiT7Wsg3Fq0hj41nye8-O7o3b0pVASMB7D8GwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDx8mLecuoZoE0BhFWerHANac5TMqcZ42YTDeL5hrOTAZA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOqiJ42HsFddgxspVtMsexWhQ6hgB03-5++EgCTi+4QnctiB1g@mail.gmail.com>

Well you are a little touchy on this and you read way more into my comment
than I actually said.
I shall endeavour to not let your sensitivity affect my state of mind.

How can I help? (if I can help)
Thanks
Peter Carlson


On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 3:46 PM Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl at lkcl.net>
wrote:

> On Monday, November 21, 2022, Peter Carlson <petercarlson79 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Yes sadly this is the only Crowd Supply project I have contributed to
> that
> > has not delivered.
>
> Peter, respectfully, this is not a productive or useful
> response (or attitude). this has always been a community
> project and it is therefore down to YOU to say, instead of
> "you are a moron for failing to deliver", instead to say
> "HOW CAN I HELP"
>
> question: would you like to help?
>
> when i receive a response "yes" (publicly, here, so that it
> is clear to everyone that i have not made any assumptions)
> i will then follow up with some SUGGESTIONs on ways that you
> can HELP, and you are then free and clear to DECIDE FOR YOURSELF
> if you wish to follow the suggested course of action.
>
> ultimately this project lives or dies based on action that
> *you* decide to take.
>
> assuming that i can and will do everything and then blaming
> me when nothing happens is worse than "not ok", it is deeply
> disrespectful and making me extremely angry given how much
> *i* have done. for you.
>
> if anyone else would like to similarly HELP then please respond
> to this message (publicly)
>
> l.
>
>
> --
> ---
> crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
> _______________________________________________
> arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook at lists.phcomp.co.uk
> http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
> Send large attachments to arm-netbook at files.phcomp.co.uk

From lkcl at lkcl.net  Mon Nov 21 16:18:04 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 16:18:04 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CAOqiJ42HsFddgxspVtMsexWhQ6hgB03-5++EgCTi+4QnctiB1g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<09b38bad-5738-a7de-25f1-ea409876c7a0@gmail.com>
	<CABnoYk1mj-juiQ3SPA=tuwGBjsL0rtkwMqN2dZ_OBHv_uvZWxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAOqiJ40sc54_kiT7Wsg3Fq0hj41nye8-O7o3b0pVASMB7D8GwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDx8mLecuoZoE0BhFWerHANac5TMqcZ42YTDeL5hrOTAZA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOqiJ42HsFddgxspVtMsexWhQ6hgB03-5++EgCTi+4QnctiB1g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDyk+wPtf8omopnZ84L_HG2NWV74mi-ORf4whgUbdBF_3w@mail.gmail.com>

On Monday, November 21, 2022, Peter Carlson <petercarlson79 at gmail.com>
wrote:
> Well you are a little touchy on this and you read way more into my comment
> than I actually said.

sorry. i am in some considerable distress. the complete lack of
response from Chris to *multiple* people has been shocking
and confusing to me.

> I shall endeavour to not let your sensitivity affect my state of mind.
>
> How can I help? (if I can help)

please reach out to Chris, we need to find out where those 93
Cards are.  even if they have been stolen from him, we need to
know.

i cannot be the one to do that, because if he ignores 25 messages
he will ignore 26.

even Joshua cannot help because he has ignored Joshua's phone
calls.

the current plan is to slowly ramp up the pressure (in a
RESPECTFUL but very direct way), culminating in requesting
all 2,500 backers to contact him requesting a status on the
location and whereabouts of those 93 Cards.

the problem is that he has not even responded to requests
for someone to pick them up, which leads me to suspect that
he is hiding something, such as "they've been stolen".

my message just now shows the last communication from Chris,
confirming that he was engaged.  he carried out a test of
ONE of the Cards (which was successful), but then some time
around May 2021, just after i had transferred the donated
0.8 BTC to him (back when that was worth USD 40,000), he
failed to respond from that point onwards to all and any
communication.

l.


-- 
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

From lkcl at lkcl.net  Mon Nov 21 16:06:46 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 16:06:46 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook]  Status update
In-Reply-To: <CAOqiJ42HsFddgxspVtMsexWhQ6hgB03-5++EgCTi+4QnctiB1g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<09b38bad-5738-a7de-25f1-ea409876c7a0@gmail.com>
	<CABnoYk1mj-juiQ3SPA=tuwGBjsL0rtkwMqN2dZ_OBHv_uvZWxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAOqiJ40sc54_kiT7Wsg3Fq0hj41nye8-O7o3b0pVASMB7D8GwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDx8mLecuoZoE0BhFWerHANac5TMqcZ42YTDeL5hrOTAZA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOqiJ42HsFddgxspVtMsexWhQ6hgB03-5++EgCTi+4QnctiB1g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDyoNc2xTJOcTS1nm136Z-hv3xZkizmjjXQ0CsCdBnXz_Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Monday, November 21, 2022, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl at lkcl.net>
wrote:
there is even two-way communication (even though it is evasion)
>
> can you please try again, this time VERY SPECIFICALLY and ONLY
> asking "where are the 95 Cards sent to your premises, Mar 2020"

correction, sorry, that's March 2021, and it was 93 Cards.
the attached screenshot from Mike contains the FEDEX Tracking
number.

l.





-- 
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
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From paul at boddie.org.uk  Mon Nov 21 16:32:52 2022
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 17:32:52 +0100
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CAPweEDwhWW6wTKqF1KabJLk-Yp9xmRgKzZV_GKb2MowEp2n9mQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAPweEDwhWW6wTKqF1KabJLk-Yp9xmRgKzZV_GKb2MowEp2n9mQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2467384.ctHmS6xmfA@jason>

On Monday, 21 November 2022 16:32:51 CET Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
> On Monday, November 21, 2022, Paul Boddie <paul at boddie.org.uk> wrote:
> 
> > Apparently, asking Crowd Supply about project status tends to elicit a
> > response directing inquirers to the project creators.
> 
> Chris *is* one of the project creators.

Indeed, which is why I noted that Crowd Supply direct inquirers to you and 
Chris. Admittedly, you are the only one who seems to read this list and reply 
to messages. As far as I am concerned, this list is the venue to contact the 
project creators.

> this response is evasion by Chris.
> 
> he is in possession of 95 Cards and he is evading responding
> as to their whereabouts.
> 
> you need to *specifically* request him to answer solely and
> specifically "where are the 95 Cards sent to him in March 2020".
> 
> please PUBLISH the response, in full, here on the mailing list.
> we need a public audit trail.

Sorry, but why do I need to chase him up? The people who need to do that are 
Crowd Supply, instead of claiming that every project is either a success or a 
success still waiting to happen, which was effectively their response to me 
when I asked them what they do when projects are failing. Or maybe it is 
Mouser who have to get involved since they acquired Crowd Supply.

> > One is too busy and directs us to the other who is incommunicative.
> 
> wrong.

Well, that's what you've been doing. See above.

> i have been refraining from speaking publicly in order to
> protect Chris, who sponsored me with USD 50,000 of his company's
> money.
> 
> now that *you* have raised this publicly (not me) i can respond
> and correct mistakes that you make above.
> 
> over the past 2 years over 40 email messages have been sent,
> even Joshua Lifton has requested a phone call to be returned.
> multiple people have raised tickets on their support system.
> 
> in 20+ months we have not received ONE response.
> 
> you are literally the first person to have even confirmed that
> there is even two-way communication (even though it is evasion)

That is two-way communication with Crowd Supply not Chris. As in: people ask 
Crowd Supply about the status of this project and Crowd Supply tell the 
inquirer to talk to you and Chris about it. So, people post to this list and 
get told to ask Chris where the cards are. It is as if Crowd Supply had 
nothing to do with taking people's money.

> can you please try again, this time VERY SPECIFICALLY and ONLY
> asking "where are the 95 Cards sent to your premises, Mar 2020"
> nothing more. it is critically important NOT to ask anything else
> 
> the next logical followup question can then be sent but only
> AFTER that first question has been answered.
> 
> if you are unsuccessful (ignored like everyone else) then at that
> point i will have no other alternative but to publish the
> Crowdsupply Update that i have INTENTIONALLY not been publishing
> which informs 2,500 people that, effectively, Chris, despite
> being a project creator and financial sponsor, is in possession
> of 95 Production Cards that are legally the property of 95 of the
> Backers, and that he is refusing to say where they are currently
> located.  the reasons why i have refrained from publishing such
> an update should be pretty damn obvious.

We all know that he has 95 cards because you posted an update saying so two 
years ago. Sending a mail to him that he probably will not respond to isn't 
going to help. Besides, the backers have an agreement with Crowd Supply, who 
in turn have agreements with you and Chris, and so it is up to Crowd Supply to 
sort this out.

So, maybe it might be more productive for people to ask Crowd Supply what they 
are doing about this situation. If everyone gets fobbed off with the success-
in-waiting, "contact the creators" canned response, maybe it is worth 
escalating to a more senior level in Mouser. Of course, Mouser might know full 
well what they bought and don't care, either.

There are other projects on Crowd Supply that supposedly delivered, but where 
the community ended up picking up the pieces (thinking of the GnuBee devices 
that receive support via a Google Group). Claims such as "every project that 
has ever received funds through Crowd Supply has delivered to their backers 
(or is on track to do so)" [*] look pretty flimsy from the perspective of 
quite a few backers, I would say.

>From my own perspective, one of the most disappointing aspects of all of this 
is that an opportunity has been squandered. Looking back six or seven years 
ago, there was a lot of enthusiasm for a project that had the potential to 
really change things, but all that enthusiasm seems to have evaporated along 
with any kind of meaningful discourse. It seems like there was a performance 
taking place, but the show is now over.

Paul

[*] https://www.crowdsupply.com/guide/backer-protection




From lkcl at lkcl.net  Mon Nov 21 16:43:21 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 16:43:21 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <2467384.ctHmS6xmfA@jason>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAPweEDwhWW6wTKqF1KabJLk-Yp9xmRgKzZV_GKb2MowEp2n9mQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<2467384.ctHmS6xmfA@jason>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDwXUMzqnUWJEg6dDbhJGDtdtfUAPWdfW=_7w4XQqoyqkA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 4:33 PM Paul Boddie <paul at boddie.org.uk> wrote:

> Sorry, but why do I need to chase him up? The people who need to do that are
> Crowd Supply,

because Chris is also evading answering and failing to respond to the *CEO*
of Crowdsupply, Joshua Lifton.

the method that is of last resort is now for the *backers* - all of them - to
publicly embarrass and shame Chris in providing a direct answer to a
direct question:

    "where are the 93 Cards sent to you in March 2021"

basically, Chris is only going to respond now if there is a direct threat to his
business revenue, and if it is PUBLICLY demonstrated - through public
pressure - that he is failing to respond, then his business revenue will be
adversely affected, and consequently the fear of that loss will be what
finally motivates him to respond, over-riding whatever fear and concern
is currently *de*-motivating him and causing him to be evasive.

as that was the strategy of last resort, you can understand why i did not
wish to pursue it, and it is only when you wrote (publicly) with mistakes
that needed correcting that i could even raise the topic.

everything up to now has been entirely private - there has LITERALLY
been one email every 2-3 weeks from a different backer, each time, and
i have - PRIVATELY - asked them to contact Chris and ask where the
Cards are.

in addition both Joshua, Kelly, and myself, *and even Mike* from the
China Factory, have *ALL* written to him or telephoned him, and not
received one single response.

this is not something that Crowdsupply can fix.

this is not something that Mouser can fix.

this is something that can only be fixed through 2,500 Backers
getting on Chris of Thinkpenguin's case and overwhelming him
until he responds truthfully where the hell those Cards are.

l.


From adam at vany.ca  Mon Nov 21 16:47:56 2022
From: adam at vany.ca (Adam Van Ymeren)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 08:47:56 -0800
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CAPweEDwXUMzqnUWJEg6dDbhJGDtdtfUAPWdfW=_7w4XQqoyqkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAPweEDwhWW6wTKqF1KabJLk-Yp9xmRgKzZV_GKb2MowEp2n9mQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<2467384.ctHmS6xmfA@jason>
	<CAPweEDwXUMzqnUWJEg6dDbhJGDtdtfUAPWdfW=_7w4XQqoyqkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6d5a7af1-ee6c-c112-c537-2766471eba0b@vany.ca>

On 2022-11-21 8:43 a.m., Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 4:33 PM Paul Boddie <paul at boddie.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> Sorry, but why do I need to chase him up? The people who need to do that are
>> Crowd Supply,
> because Chris is also evading answering and failing to respond to the *CEO*
> of Crowdsupply, Joshua Lifton.
>
> the method that is of last resort is now for the *backers* - all of them - to
> publicly embarrass and shame Chris in providing a direct answer to a
> direct question:
>
>      "where are the 93 Cards sent to you in March 2021"

There were ~1000+ cards ordered on Crowd Supply.  Perhaps we should assume that Chris and
those 93 cards are gone and focus on what we can do in their absence?  The success of this
project, by necessity, cannot rely solely on 93 cards and one person to return from AWOL
status.


Let's theorize, if Chris were to respond and provide the 93 cards, what is the roadmap for
the project from there.  What of this roadmap can we complete without Chris and his 93 cars?




From lkcl at lkcl.net  Mon Nov 21 16:56:17 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 16:56:17 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <6d5a7af1-ee6c-c112-c537-2766471eba0b@vany.ca>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAPweEDwhWW6wTKqF1KabJLk-Yp9xmRgKzZV_GKb2MowEp2n9mQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<2467384.ctHmS6xmfA@jason>
	<CAPweEDwXUMzqnUWJEg6dDbhJGDtdtfUAPWdfW=_7w4XQqoyqkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<6d5a7af1-ee6c-c112-c537-2766471eba0b@vany.ca>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDz4D19BW+-_fC-LPN=0mhk+zxDQk3uO6Thtvvr6X2GRGA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 4:48 PM Adam Van Ymeren <adam at vany.ca> wrote:

> >      "where are the 93 Cards sent to you in March 2021"
>
> There were ~1000+ cards ordered on Crowd Supply.  Perhaps we should assume that Chris and
> those 93 cards are gone and focus on what we can do in their absence?

unfortunately there are more backers than there are Cards, and there are
not enough components left to replace those missing Cards, and not enough
money to *pay* for components, to replace the components necessary to
replace those missing Cards.

it is absolutely critically essential to fulfilling the promises made
that those Cards
be tracked down and extracted by any means necessary, from whoever currently
possesses them.

l.


From adam at vany.ca  Mon Nov 21 17:06:21 2022
From: adam at vany.ca (Adam Van Ymeren)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 09:06:21 -0800
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CAPweEDz4D19BW+-_fC-LPN=0mhk+zxDQk3uO6Thtvvr6X2GRGA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAPweEDwhWW6wTKqF1KabJLk-Yp9xmRgKzZV_GKb2MowEp2n9mQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<2467384.ctHmS6xmfA@jason>
	<CAPweEDwXUMzqnUWJEg6dDbhJGDtdtfUAPWdfW=_7w4XQqoyqkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<6d5a7af1-ee6c-c112-c537-2766471eba0b@vany.ca>
	<CAPweEDz4D19BW+-_fC-LPN=0mhk+zxDQk3uO6Thtvvr6X2GRGA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7ecc555c-6b26-c52c-5150-13db00b43076@vany.ca>

On 2022-11-21 8:56 a.m., Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 4:48 PM Adam Van Ymeren<adam at vany.ca>  wrote:
>
>>>       "where are the 93 Cards sent to you in March 2021"
>> There were ~1000+ cards ordered on Crowd Supply.  Perhaps we should assume that Chris and
>> those 93 cards are gone and focus on what we can do in their absence?
> unfortunately there are more backers than there are Cards, and there are
> not enough components left to replace those missing Cards, and not enough
> money to *pay* for components, to replace the components necessary to
> replace those missing Cards.
>
> it is absolutely critically essential to fulfilling the promises made
> that those Cards
> be tracked down and extracted by any means necessary, from whoever currently
> possesses them.

Other options are finding a way to raise money to cover the lost cards, and/or
finding volunteers to forfeit their cards for the success of the project

The 93 missing cards doesn't prevent us from shipping the other cards does it?

Shipping cards builds momentum and interest.  There are (were?) a lot of passionate
supporters of this project.  People know that crowd funded projects have risk.

Shipping 90% of cards late seems like a better result than shipping 0% of cards because
10% of them went missing.


If we ship cards and start building momentum again it's possible that we build enough
interest to sell more cards at a slight markup which can be used to replace the missing pieces.

From lkcl at lkcl.net  Mon Nov 21 17:12:45 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 17:12:45 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <7ecc555c-6b26-c52c-5150-13db00b43076@vany.ca>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAPweEDwhWW6wTKqF1KabJLk-Yp9xmRgKzZV_GKb2MowEp2n9mQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<2467384.ctHmS6xmfA@jason>
	<CAPweEDwXUMzqnUWJEg6dDbhJGDtdtfUAPWdfW=_7w4XQqoyqkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<6d5a7af1-ee6c-c112-c537-2766471eba0b@vany.ca>
	<CAPweEDz4D19BW+-_fC-LPN=0mhk+zxDQk3uO6Thtvvr6X2GRGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<7ecc555c-6b26-c52c-5150-13db00b43076@vany.ca>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDyrSTncRk6_UAgghw05ckBYsQce6L3rJG4Vj5onzXxPww@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 5:07 PM Adam Van Ymeren <adam at vany.ca> wrote:

> Other options are finding a way to raise money to cover the lost cards,

you misunderstand: some of the components are *no longer available*.
they cannot be manufactured without a complete redesign.

> The 93 missing cards doesn't prevent us from shipping the other cards does it?

they have not been manufactured yet.  Mike is arranging that.

l.


From adam at vany.ca  Mon Nov 21 17:24:34 2022
From: adam at vany.ca (Adam Van Ymeren)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 09:24:34 -0800
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CAPweEDyrSTncRk6_UAgghw05ckBYsQce6L3rJG4Vj5onzXxPww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAPweEDwhWW6wTKqF1KabJLk-Yp9xmRgKzZV_GKb2MowEp2n9mQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<2467384.ctHmS6xmfA@jason>
	<CAPweEDwXUMzqnUWJEg6dDbhJGDtdtfUAPWdfW=_7w4XQqoyqkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<6d5a7af1-ee6c-c112-c537-2766471eba0b@vany.ca>
	<CAPweEDz4D19BW+-_fC-LPN=0mhk+zxDQk3uO6Thtvvr6X2GRGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<7ecc555c-6b26-c52c-5150-13db00b43076@vany.ca>
	<CAPweEDyrSTncRk6_UAgghw05ckBYsQce6L3rJG4Vj5onzXxPww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <91af4459-6c87-008d-b309-bbda3fa539ca@vany.ca>

On 2022-11-21 9:12 a.m., Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 5:07 PM Adam Van Ymeren<adam at vany.ca>  wrote:
>
>> Other options are finding a way to raise money to cover the lost cards,
> you misunderstand: some of the components are *no longer available*.
> they cannot be manufactured without a complete redesign.

Oh right sorry.  That being said, building community momentum/interest could result
in an interested community member doing the necessary design work.  Low probability
but it's possible.

>> The 93 missing cards doesn't prevent us from shipping the other cards does it?
> they have not been manufactured yet.  Mike is arranging that.

Is this happening in parallel to the current outreach to Chris?

From lkcl at lkcl.net  Mon Nov 21 17:47:04 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 17:47:04 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <91af4459-6c87-008d-b309-bbda3fa539ca@vany.ca>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAPweEDwhWW6wTKqF1KabJLk-Yp9xmRgKzZV_GKb2MowEp2n9mQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<2467384.ctHmS6xmfA@jason>
	<CAPweEDwXUMzqnUWJEg6dDbhJGDtdtfUAPWdfW=_7w4XQqoyqkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<6d5a7af1-ee6c-c112-c537-2766471eba0b@vany.ca>
	<CAPweEDz4D19BW+-_fC-LPN=0mhk+zxDQk3uO6Thtvvr6X2GRGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<7ecc555c-6b26-c52c-5150-13db00b43076@vany.ca>
	<CAPweEDyrSTncRk6_UAgghw05ckBYsQce6L3rJG4Vj5onzXxPww@mail.gmail.com>
	<91af4459-6c87-008d-b309-bbda3fa539ca@vany.ca>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDyPt8aJ5VHc=0Fv0J1wMfN6HQ6tEef5b0zt_8swHSt4gg@mail.gmail.com>

On Monday, November 21, 2022, Adam Van Ymeren <adam at vany.ca> wrote:

> Oh right sorry.  That being said, building community momentum/interest
could result
> in an interested community member doing the necessary design work.  Low
probability
> but it's possible.

good suggestion. given the amount of work involved i rate it
as extremely low, but this does not eliminate it entirely.
NLnet or other EU Grant funding would help here.


> Is this happening in parallel to the current outreach to Chris?

yes.

l.

-- 
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

From petercarlson79 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 18:04:42 2022
From: petercarlson79 at gmail.com (Peter Carlson)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 18:04:42 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CAPweEDyk+wPtf8omopnZ84L_HG2NWV74mi-ORf4whgUbdBF_3w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<09b38bad-5738-a7de-25f1-ea409876c7a0@gmail.com>
	<CABnoYk1mj-juiQ3SPA=tuwGBjsL0rtkwMqN2dZ_OBHv_uvZWxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAOqiJ40sc54_kiT7Wsg3Fq0hj41nye8-O7o3b0pVASMB7D8GwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDx8mLecuoZoE0BhFWerHANac5TMqcZ42YTDeL5hrOTAZA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOqiJ42HsFddgxspVtMsexWhQ6hgB03-5++EgCTi+4QnctiB1g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDyk+wPtf8omopnZ84L_HG2NWV74mi-ORf4whgUbdBF_3w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOqiJ43nzHcf4r+WX_usuirB=X=C+GP3G7DX53161-CLkb6Gdg@mail.gmail.com>

I have sent the requested specific message to Thinkpenquin support request
page.

On Mon, Nov 21, 2022, 4:18 PM Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl at lkcl.net>
wrote:

> On Monday, November 21, 2022, Peter Carlson <petercarlson79 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Well you are a little touchy on this and you read way more into my
> comment
> > than I actually said.
>
> sorry. i am in some considerable distress. the complete lack of
> response from Chris to *multiple* people has been shocking
> and confusing to me.
>
> > I shall endeavour to not let your sensitivity affect my state of mind.
> >
> > How can I help? (if I can help)
>
> please reach out to Chris, we need to find out where those 93
> Cards are.  even if they have been stolen from him, we need to
> know.
>
> i cannot be the one to do that, because if he ignores 25 messages
> he will ignore 26.
>
> even Joshua cannot help because he has ignored Joshua's phone
> calls.
>
> the current plan is to slowly ramp up the pressure (in a
> RESPECTFUL but very direct way), culminating in requesting
> all 2,500 backers to contact him requesting a status on the
> location and whereabouts of those 93 Cards.
>
> the problem is that he has not even responded to requests
> for someone to pick them up, which leads me to suspect that
> he is hiding something, such as "they've been stolen".
>
> my message just now shows the last communication from Chris,
> confirming that he was engaged.  he carried out a test of
> ONE of the Cards (which was successful), but then some time
> around May 2021, just after i had transferred the donated
> 0.8 BTC to him (back when that was worth USD 40,000), he
> failed to respond from that point onwards to all and any
> communication.
>
> l.
>
>
> --
> ---
> crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
> _______________________________________________
> arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook at lists.phcomp.co.uk
> http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
> Send large attachments to arm-netbook at files.phcomp.co.uk

From lkcl at lkcl.net  Mon Nov 21 18:21:41 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 18:21:41 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CAOqiJ43nzHcf4r+WX_usuirB=X=C+GP3G7DX53161-CLkb6Gdg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<09b38bad-5738-a7de-25f1-ea409876c7a0@gmail.com>
	<CABnoYk1mj-juiQ3SPA=tuwGBjsL0rtkwMqN2dZ_OBHv_uvZWxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAOqiJ40sc54_kiT7Wsg3Fq0hj41nye8-O7o3b0pVASMB7D8GwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDx8mLecuoZoE0BhFWerHANac5TMqcZ42YTDeL5hrOTAZA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOqiJ42HsFddgxspVtMsexWhQ6hgB03-5++EgCTi+4QnctiB1g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDyk+wPtf8omopnZ84L_HG2NWV74mi-ORf4whgUbdBF_3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOqiJ43nzHcf4r+WX_usuirB=X=C+GP3G7DX53161-CLkb6Gdg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDyhyhLY2zoSBimXJmsmVx9bNSC_d4pVGag3r4-YumTOtg@mail.gmail.com>

On Monday, November 21, 2022, Peter Carlson <petercarlson79 at gmail.com>
wrote:
> I have sent the requested specific message to Thinkpenquin support request
> page.

thank you, i genuinely appreciate that. the more people
who do it, the more that Chris will get the message.

Paul: it really is very important for you to do the same,
because in over 18 months you are literally the only
person ever to have received a response of any kind.

if this process fails then we escalate to the Update that
I have kept in reserve, requesting all 2,500 backers to
contact Chris and ask where the 93 Cards are, as well as
publish the requests on Social Media.

l.



-- 
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

From samhuntress at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 18:55:32 2022
From: samhuntress at gmail.com (Sam Huntress)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 13:55:32 -0500
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CAPweEDyhyhLY2zoSBimXJmsmVx9bNSC_d4pVGag3r4-YumTOtg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<09b38bad-5738-a7de-25f1-ea409876c7a0@gmail.com>
	<CABnoYk1mj-juiQ3SPA=tuwGBjsL0rtkwMqN2dZ_OBHv_uvZWxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAOqiJ40sc54_kiT7Wsg3Fq0hj41nye8-O7o3b0pVASMB7D8GwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDx8mLecuoZoE0BhFWerHANac5TMqcZ42YTDeL5hrOTAZA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOqiJ42HsFddgxspVtMsexWhQ6hgB03-5++EgCTi+4QnctiB1g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDyk+wPtf8omopnZ84L_HG2NWV74mi-ORf4whgUbdBF_3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOqiJ43nzHcf4r+WX_usuirB=X=C+GP3G7DX53161-CLkb6Gdg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDyhyhLY2zoSBimXJmsmVx9bNSC_d4pVGag3r4-YumTOtg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANYNf9sonmeigDLshQ4OGTUvgg9CtjOM3ewLEVJzqY0w+biuZQ@mail.gmail.com>

My thoughts as an outside observer:

It seems clear that the project is out of money and the product isn't ready.
There does not seem to be any significant incompetence, ill intent, or
malice at fault here.
The project seems to have succumbed to the difficulties inherent in
producing a niche
device at small scale with minimal funding.

With that said, I think it would be a mistake to focus on what happened to
~100 missing boards.
Identifying persons or processes involved with failed production runs is
not going to help move the
project forward. That is an issue for post-mortem later.

My naive opinion on the best path forward would be to publish all
schematics, instructions,
documentation, bills of materials, etc as thoroughly as possible then
consider the project effectively
dead with the hope that community effort can eventually revive it and
remove the dependence on
rare/vintage/legacy parts & components.

-Sam

From arm-netbook at brisammon.fastmail.fm  Mon Nov 21 19:27:36 2022
From: arm-netbook at brisammon.fastmail.fm (Brian Sammon)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 14:27:36 -0500
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CAPweEDwXUMzqnUWJEg6dDbhJGDtdtfUAPWdfW=_7w4XQqoyqkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAPweEDwhWW6wTKqF1KabJLk-Yp9xmRgKzZV_GKb2MowEp2n9mQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<2467384.ctHmS6xmfA@jason>
	<CAPweEDwXUMzqnUWJEg6dDbhJGDtdtfUAPWdfW=_7w4XQqoyqkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20221121142736.1529963c450aef5da2e8e249@brisammon.fastmail.fm>

On Mon, 21 Nov 2022 16:43:21 +0000
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl at lkcl.net> wrote:

> this is not something that Crowdsupply can fix.
> 
> this is not something that Mouser can fix.

I notice you did not say "There is nothing that Crowdsupply/Mouser can do".

I suspect there is something they can do--something significant, and it may be about time:
They can take legal action.

I don't know if contracts were ever drawn up/signed at the beginning of this project; if so, they'd probably have a very strong basis for legal action.  If there were no contracts, there's probably still something that lawyers could do.

And I imagine that Crowdsupply/Mouser is significantly more able to hire lawyers (or have them already) than you are.

Or maybe this is already happening.


From lkcl at lkcl.net  Mon Nov 21 19:34:02 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 19:34:02 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CANYNf9sonmeigDLshQ4OGTUvgg9CtjOM3ewLEVJzqY0w+biuZQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<09b38bad-5738-a7de-25f1-ea409876c7a0@gmail.com>
	<CABnoYk1mj-juiQ3SPA=tuwGBjsL0rtkwMqN2dZ_OBHv_uvZWxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAOqiJ40sc54_kiT7Wsg3Fq0hj41nye8-O7o3b0pVASMB7D8GwQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDx8mLecuoZoE0BhFWerHANac5TMqcZ42YTDeL5hrOTAZA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOqiJ42HsFddgxspVtMsexWhQ6hgB03-5++EgCTi+4QnctiB1g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDyk+wPtf8omopnZ84L_HG2NWV74mi-ORf4whgUbdBF_3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOqiJ43nzHcf4r+WX_usuirB=X=C+GP3G7DX53161-CLkb6Gdg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDyhyhLY2zoSBimXJmsmVx9bNSC_d4pVGag3r4-YumTOtg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANYNf9sonmeigDLshQ4OGTUvgg9CtjOM3ewLEVJzqY0w+biuZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDw+gh0j99D7-qi51dv6H0vCieTuPoqfPduLwCctAP-Rig@mail.gmail.com>

On Monday, November 21, 2022, Sam Huntress <samhuntress at gmail.com> wrote:
> My thoughts as an outside observer:
>
> It seems clear that the project is out of money and the product isn't
ready.

this is not correct.

there is just enough to deliver.

there is *not* enough for contingency nor to pay anyone,
particularly that Chris appears on first glance to have
embezzled 0.8 BTC (worth USD 40,000 at the time).
given that he sponsored me to *50* thousand USD this can,
to some extent, be "overlooked".

in addition there is SIGNIFICANT funds LOCKED UP in
Crowd Supply that can ONLY BE UNLOCKED by BEGINNING
SHIPPING.

the plan was to send out the 93 Cards, at which point
the funds could have been unlocked.

Chris failing to respond has basically terminated that option,
setting the project back nearly 2 years.

please can i therefore request that you not make false statements
instead to ASK what is ACTUALLY happening.  if i get beyond a
certain threshold of people ignoring this simple request i will
have no choice but to place the list into Moderation Mode,
review every single message and communicate prvately with
people, requesting that they rewrite and remove any damaging
speculative and false statements.

i will not do that with good grace at all because it is a
completely unacceptable burden that i should in absolutely
no way have to tolerate.

i therefore expect AND DEMAND that everyone refrain from making
false statements, instead to be respectful and ASK QUESTIONS.

l.





-- 
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

From lkcl at lkcl.net  Mon Nov 21 19:39:41 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 19:39:41 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <20221121142736.1529963c450aef5da2e8e249@brisammon.fastmail.fm>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAPweEDwhWW6wTKqF1KabJLk-Yp9xmRgKzZV_GKb2MowEp2n9mQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<2467384.ctHmS6xmfA@jason>
	<CAPweEDwXUMzqnUWJEg6dDbhJGDtdtfUAPWdfW=_7w4XQqoyqkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20221121142736.1529963c450aef5da2e8e249@brisammon.fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDxawBySZstWs8U1vRgOR+pN_YQ_2COzXuy7pkFqLQ-=4w@mail.gmail.com>

On Monday, November 21, 2022, Brian Sammon <
arm-netbook at brisammon.fastmail.fm> wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Nov 2022 16:43:21 +0000
> Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl at lkcl.net> wrote:
>
>> this is not something that Crowdsupply can fix.
>>
>> this is not something that Mouser can fix.
>
> I notice you did not say "There is nothing that Crowdsupply/Mouser can
do".

yes, because i am completely overwhelmed and under
pressure, which i am not in the least bit happy about, i
am extremely pissed off at having my time wasted dealing
with this.

UNPAID.

and not receiving any financial compensation or renumeration,
because there isn't any available.

i did not answer because i had neither the time nor inclination
(without financial renumeration) to investigate or speculate.

l.



-- 
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

From samhuntress at gmail.com  Mon Nov 21 19:56:17 2022
From: samhuntress at gmail.com (Sam Huntress)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 14:56:17 -0500
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CAPweEDxawBySZstWs8U1vRgOR+pN_YQ_2COzXuy7pkFqLQ-=4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAPweEDwhWW6wTKqF1KabJLk-Yp9xmRgKzZV_GKb2MowEp2n9mQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<2467384.ctHmS6xmfA@jason>
	<CAPweEDwXUMzqnUWJEg6dDbhJGDtdtfUAPWdfW=_7w4XQqoyqkA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20221121142736.1529963c450aef5da2e8e249@brisammon.fastmail.fm>
	<CAPweEDxawBySZstWs8U1vRgOR+pN_YQ_2COzXuy7pkFqLQ-=4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANYNf9tmA7VcNdyf+M+h7ozM5WJ4DfU+5iMErapWJe7osQeu6g@mail.gmail.com>

>   in addition there is SIGNIFICANT funds LOCKED UP in
> Crowd Supply that can ONLY BE UNLOCKED by BEGINNING
> SHIPPING.

[Conditionally Available Funds (Conditions not yet met)] is a subset of
[Money the Project Does Not Have]

I'm willing to accept the assessment that tracking down those 93 cards will
be cheaper than producing the next
however-many-are-required-to-meet-the-crowd-supply-condtion cards but that
does not change the fact that
currently the project is out of money.

On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 2:39 PM Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl at lkcl.net>
wrote:

> On Monday, November 21, 2022, Brian Sammon <
> arm-netbook at brisammon.fastmail.fm> wrote:
> > On Mon, 21 Nov 2022 16:43:21 +0000
> > Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl at lkcl.net> wrote:
> >
> >> this is not something that Crowdsupply can fix.
> >>
> >> this is not something that Mouser can fix.
> >
> > I notice you did not say "There is nothing that Crowdsupply/Mouser can
> do".
>
> yes, because i am completely overwhelmed and under
> pressure, which i am not in the least bit happy about, i
> am extremely pissed off at having my time wasted dealing
> with this.
>
> UNPAID.
>
> and not receiving any financial compensation or renumeration,
> because there isn't any available.
>
> i did not answer because i had neither the time nor inclination
> (without financial renumeration) to investigate or speculate.
>
> l.
>
>
>
> --
> ---
> crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
> _______________________________________________
> arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook at lists.phcomp.co.uk
> http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
> Send large attachments to arm-netbook at files.phcomp.co.uk

From paul at boddie.org.uk  Mon Nov 21 21:02:10 2022
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 22:02:10 +0100
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CAPweEDyhyhLY2zoSBimXJmsmVx9bNSC_d4pVGag3r4-YumTOtg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOqiJ43nzHcf4r+WX_usuirB=X=C+GP3G7DX53161-CLkb6Gdg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDyhyhLY2zoSBimXJmsmVx9bNSC_d4pVGag3r4-YumTOtg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1940543.zTZ0slctyJ@jason>

On Monday, 21 November 2022 19:21:41 CET Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
> 
> Paul: it really is very important for you to do the same,
> because in over 18 months you are literally the only
> person ever to have received a response of any kind.

I have never communicated with Christopher Waid. I think I made that pretty 
clear in my previous messages, so I don't know why you believe otherwise. 
Maybe quote me the text that isn't clear so that I will know to avoid such 
misunderstandings in the future. For the record, I only ever sent a general 
question to Crowd Supply asking what their policy was on failing projects.

And perhaps, instead of chasing up Mr Waid, with whom I have no contractual 
relationship, Crowd Supply might exercise their expertise in ensuring that 
this project will not fail, given that they are so proud of their perfect 
record and of "carefully vetting and working with our projects".

Paul




From lkcl at lkcl.net  Mon Nov 21 21:27:48 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 21:27:48 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <1940543.zTZ0slctyJ@jason>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOqiJ43nzHcf4r+WX_usuirB=X=C+GP3G7DX53161-CLkb6Gdg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDyhyhLY2zoSBimXJmsmVx9bNSC_d4pVGag3r4-YumTOtg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1940543.zTZ0slctyJ@jason>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDwnA4p8WVX8EwRCj=sePssGDOM4YOOBz0VMX5JNyqYXOg@mail.gmail.com>

---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 9:02 PM Paul Boddie <paul at boddie.org.uk> wrote:
>
> On Monday, 21 November 2022 19:21:41 CET Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
> >
> > Paul: it really is very important for you to do the same,
> > because in over 18 months you are literally the only
> > person ever to have received a response of any kind.
>
> I have never communicated with Christopher Waid.

ah as Thinkpenguin is only 2.5 people, one of whom does not
answer the support email, the probability that you were answered
*by* Christopher Waid (without realising it) is very high.  apologies
for not making that clear.

> I think I made that pretty clear in my previous messages,

Thinkpenguin is not a sole trader, but there is only Bob (internal-only
technical R&D), Chris (main frontline support), and *one* part-time
helper.

> so I don't know why you believe otherwise.

it's a reasonable (but unclear) logical deduction.

> Maybe quote me the text that isn't clear so that I will know to avoid such
> misunderstandings in the future. For the record, I only ever sent a general
> question to Crowd Supply asking what their policy was on failing projects.

hang on - you sent a message to *Crowdsupply* and got a response from
*Crowdsupply* saying "contact the project creators directly"?

that being the case, that was the correct response.

> And perhaps, instead of chasing up Mr Waid, with whom I have no contractual
> relationship, Crowd Supply might exercise their expertise in ensuring that
> this project will not fail, given that they are so proud of their perfect
> record and of "carefully vetting and working with our projects".

it's just not their responsibility to do that.

it turns out that Joshua has in fact gone out of his way to help, at
no obligation.

Joshua has - *PERSONALLY* - offered to carry out the testing of all
Cards, which was what i transferred 0.8 BTC to Chris for him to
do [which Chris appears, as best can be discerned based on current
behaviour and complete lack of responses, to have embezzled].

l.


From lkcl at lkcl.net  Mon Nov 21 21:38:48 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 21:38:48 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<09b38bad-5738-a7de-25f1-ea409876c7a0@gmail.com>
	<CABnoYk1mj-juiQ3SPA=tuwGBjsL0rtkwMqN2dZ_OBHv_uvZWxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDzg3zvpAjtjtxsq9oq0OpP9j9Fyg4vzQqbYGCEWzesang@mail.gmail.com>

paul, apologies, i misread. let me start again.

On Monday, November 21, 2022, Paul Boddie <paul at boddie.org.uk> wrote:

> Apparently, asking Crowd Supply

asking *Crowdsupply* would result in redirection because they
too are awaiting delivery.  they are responsible for *delivery*
questions and order questions.

> about project status tends to elicit a
> response directing inquirers to the project creators.

yes this would be perfectly reasonable and you should not
really have asked them (it wastes their time) because by
definition of their role and responsibility, as a *Delivery*
agent, you can easily work out their response even before
the question is asked of them.

> One is too busy and
> directs us to the other who is incommunicative.

this is the bit that is ambiguous and caused me to misunderstand.
whom is "one" and whom is "the other" when there are *three*
potential parties involved?

l.


-- 
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

From paul at boddie.org.uk  Mon Nov 21 21:53:04 2022
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 22:53:04 +0100
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CAPweEDwnA4p8WVX8EwRCj=sePssGDOM4YOOBz0VMX5JNyqYXOg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1940543.zTZ0slctyJ@jason>
	<CAPweEDwnA4p8WVX8EwRCj=sePssGDOM4YOOBz0VMX5JNyqYXOg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6705107.FQGJZpKcRV@jason>

On Monday, 21 November 2022 22:27:48 CET Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 9:02 PM Paul Boddie <paul at boddie.org.uk> wrote:
> > 
> > I have never communicated with Christopher Waid.
> 
> ah as Thinkpenguin is only 2.5 people, one of whom does not
> answer the support email, the probability that you were answered
> *by* Christopher Waid (without realising it) is very high.  apologies
> for not making that clear.

I have never communicated with ThinkPenguin, either. My remarks about 
ThinkPenguin's policy on commerce with the European Union, or lack thereof, 
was purely based on looking at their Web site.

> > I think I made that pretty clear in my previous messages,
> 
> Thinkpenguin is not a sole trader, but there is only Bob (internal-only
> technical R&D), Chris (main frontline support), and *one* part-time
> helper.
> 
> > so I don't know why you believe otherwise.
> 
> it's a reasonable (but unclear) logical deduction.

Well, I haven't communicated with Christopher Waid or ThinkPenguin.

> > Maybe quote me the text that isn't clear so that I will know to avoid such
> > misunderstandings in the future. For the record, I only ever sent a
> > general question to Crowd Supply asking what their policy was on failing
> > projects.
> 
> hang on - you sent a message to *Crowdsupply* and got a response from
> *Crowdsupply* saying "contact the project creators directly"?
> 
> that being the case, that was the correct response.

Yes, I got a message from Crowd Supply after having sent a message to Crowd 
Supply, although my own message was not about this project specifically, but I 
know that messages that were about this project have been met with "contact 
the project creators directly".

> > And perhaps, instead of chasing up Mr Waid, with whom I have no
> > contractual relationship, Crowd Supply might exercise their expertise in
> > ensuring that this project will not fail, given that they are so proud of
> > their perfect record and of "carefully vetting and working with our
> > projects".
> 
> it's just not their responsibility to do that.
> 
> it turns out that Joshua has in fact gone out of his way to help, at
> no obligation.

You're saying that Crowd Supply has no obligation to those who used its 
platform to fund projects. If so, that makes them barely any better than 
Kickstarter or Indiegogo and rather puts a different light on the various 
claims made about their capabilities and reputation.

Whether they genuinely believe they have no obligation or not, I would 
recommend caution on their part: people have successfully sought legal 
recourse for failed crowdfunding efforts in the past, regardless of what the 
small print claimed.

> Joshua has - *PERSONALLY* - offered to carry out the testing of all
> Cards, which was what i transferred 0.8 BTC to Chris for him to
> do [which Chris appears, as best can be discerned based on current
> behaviour and complete lack of responses, to have embezzled].

It is kind of anyone to go beyond any actual obligation they have, but all of 
this sounds like a dispute between people on the other side of the fence. So, 
although you have given us a status update in a way, I think that the only way 
forward is for those involved to resolve the dispute amongst themselves, not 
to drag in 1000 or so other people to do it for them.

Paul




From arm-netbook at brisammon.fastmail.fm  Mon Nov 21 22:05:38 2022
From: arm-netbook at brisammon.fastmail.fm (Brian Sammon)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 17:05:38 -0500
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <1940543.zTZ0slctyJ@jason>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOqiJ43nzHcf4r+WX_usuirB=X=C+GP3G7DX53161-CLkb6Gdg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDyhyhLY2zoSBimXJmsmVx9bNSC_d4pVGag3r4-YumTOtg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1940543.zTZ0slctyJ@jason>
Message-ID: <20221121170538.142c525de6f8eafc1312d704@brisammon.fastmail.fm>

On Mon, 21 Nov 2022 22:02:10 +0100
Paul Boddie <paul at boddie.org.uk> wrote:

> And perhaps, instead of chasing up Mr Waid, with whom I have no contractual
> relationship, Crowd Supply might exercise their expertise in ensuring that 
> this project will not fail, given that they are so proud of their perfect 
> record and of "carefully vetting and working with our projects".

I agree with this.

This is kind of where I was going with my mention of "legal action".  If CrowdSupply is marketing themselves as a better alternative to the "donate to a project and maybe you'll get something" that Kickstarter and others seem to be known for, then I think we could hold them to that.  If they're trying to position themselves as a professionally-run business-transaction version of crowd-funding, then as a backer, my business relationship is with CrowdSupply, and it seems reasonable that I should be able to expect them to provide/arrange remedies, and deal with the other parties (such as ThinkPenguin) as subcontractors who made promises to CrowdSupply.

If this gets to the point of a Social Media publicity/shaming campaign, I would suggest that pointing the bad publicity at Crowd Supply is worth considering as an alternative/complement to directing bad publicity at ThinkPenguin.


From lkcl at lkcl.net  Mon Nov 21 22:20:32 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 22:20:32 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <20221121170538.142c525de6f8eafc1312d704@brisammon.fastmail.fm>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOqiJ43nzHcf4r+WX_usuirB=X=C+GP3G7DX53161-CLkb6Gdg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDyhyhLY2zoSBimXJmsmVx9bNSC_d4pVGag3r4-YumTOtg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1940543.zTZ0slctyJ@jason>
	<20221121170538.142c525de6f8eafc1312d704@brisammon.fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDym9HFTK1V+6SPm1Bu6z68pEcAdKmas2DtqiAjaq+eazQ@mail.gmail.com>

folks the dscussion is getting completely out of hand and
into the realm of speculation about matters for which none
of us have any responsibility or authority.

if the speculation about what Crowdsupply or Mouser should
or should not do i will place this entire list into
Emergency Moderation.

please cease and desist speculation and making unsubstantiated
claims and statements about Crowdsupply and Mouser.

l.


-- 
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

From paul at boddie.org.uk  Mon Nov 21 22:23:11 2022
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 23:23:11 +0100
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CAPweEDzg3zvpAjtjtxsq9oq0OpP9j9Fyg4vzQqbYGCEWzesang@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAPweEDzg3zvpAjtjtxsq9oq0OpP9j9Fyg4vzQqbYGCEWzesang@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4337270.zu7JEnyKaF@jason>

On Monday, 21 November 2022 22:38:48 CET Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
> paul, apologies, i misread. let me start again.
> 
> On Monday, November 21, 2022, Paul Boddie <paul at boddie.org.uk> wrote:
> 
> > One is too busy and directs us to the other who is incommunicative.
> 
> this is the bit that is ambiguous and caused me to misunderstand.
> whom is "one" and whom is "the other" when there are *three*
> potential parties involved?

OK, when someone is asked by Crowd Supply to contact the creators directly, 
you (as creator #1) are evidently too busy and have directed us to Christopher 
Waid (as creator #2) who is incommunicative.

Personally, I find it all a bit perplexing. Although I know that you brought 
Mr Waid into the effort with there apparently being some particular interest 
from him in the laptop, I would imagine that most people following this 
project would have expected you to bring the effort to completion yourself: 
your own capabilities and plans being much more of a known quantity than those 
of someone that few of us have had any dealings with.

Paul




From lkcl at lkcl.net  Mon Nov 21 23:01:25 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 23:01:25 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <4337270.zu7JEnyKaF@jason>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAPweEDzg3zvpAjtjtxsq9oq0OpP9j9Fyg4vzQqbYGCEWzesang@mail.gmail.com>
	<4337270.zu7JEnyKaF@jason>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDxzBPDqnMxB4c+A7Z4yAhdrg4w0H=HvfVO_BQQX3s2A7g@mail.gmail.com>

On Monday, November 21, 2022, Paul Boddie <paul at boddie.org.uk> wrote:
> On Monday, 21 November 2022 22:38:48 CET Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
wrote:
>> paul, apologies, i misread. let me start again.
>>
>> On Monday, November 21, 2022, Paul Boddie <paul at boddie.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>> > One is too busy and directs us to the other who is incommunicative.
>>
>> this is the bit that is ambiguous and caused me to misunderstand.
>> whom is "one" and whom is "the other" when there are *three*
>> potential parties involved?
>
> OK, when someone is asked by Crowd Supply to contact the creators
directly,
> you (as creator #1) are evidently too busy

no, this is wrong.  or, factually misleading.
the 93 Cards are at *Think Penguin's premises*.

i have spent 18 months persistently attempting
communication to recover those Cards.

we are WAITING for the results of TESTING of those Cards.

proceeding with the manufacture of the remaining 800 is
a HUGE RISK without information on the state of the 93
that are WITHELD by Chris of Think Penguin.

i am waiting JUST AS MUCH AS YOU ARE.

there is no further action i can take beyond repeating
that the course of action is for ALL OF YOU to
CONTACT CHRISTOPHER WAID.


> and have directed us to Christopher
> Waid (as creator #2) who is incommunicative.

i repeat.

once again.

public pressure from multiple sources and backers is
our last best chance.

it will require multiple people, systematically, and
it will require those people to put the resultant
conversations onto publicly-accessible Social Media,
especially forums where Thinkpenguin customers are
likely to be present in some numbers.

this type of action will cause Chris to lose business if
he does not respond to paying customers, which should
be sufficient to finally get him to respond.

it is uncomfortable, but tough: i cannot protect him any
longer from the consequences of his failure to communicate.


> Personally, I find it all a bit perplexing. Although I know that you
brought
> Mr Waid into the effort with there apparently being some particular
interest
> from him in the laptop, I would imagine that most people following this
> project would have expected you to bring the effort to completion
yourself:

fuck no, you must be absolutely kidding. you cannot possibly be serious.

if you genuinely believe that then you cannot possibly have
been reading the updates where i specifically request assistance
and remind everyone systematically that this is and always
has been a COMMUNITY project where it lives and dies on what
people help out with.

examples include writing documentation, wiki pages, developing
linux kernel support, u-boot patches and getting OS Support
up and running.  none of which i can possibly be expected to
handle alone.

i also go to some lengths to repeatedly state that as a
Certification Mark Holder i am NOT PERMITTED TO SELL PRODUCT
because it is a Conflict of Interest with the role and
responsibility of a Certification Mark Holder.

once again, from the top:

it places the ENTIRE PROJECT AT RISK to proceed with the
manufacture of the remaining Cards without first testing
the 93 that are being witheld by Chrstopher Waid at his
business premises.

Mike needs to know if the yield was 95% or if it was 5%.

we have no idea.

91 of those Cards could be FAULTY and CHRIS HAS NOT TOLD US

without knowing what the fault might be, Mike is risking
proceeding to manufacture A THOUSAND FAULTY UNRECOVERABLE CARDS

at which point this project will have no other choice but
to be declared terminated.

so will you please

will you please

for god's sake

stop arguing

stop speculating

and please

please

LISTEN

and HELP

by CONTACTING CHRISTOPHER WAID

to ask him very simply: "where are the 93 Cards"

so that we can send a Courier round to recover them, get them
to Portland, so that Joshua can test them.

l.


-- 
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

From hendrik at topoi.pooq.com  Tue Nov 22 12:10:40 2022
From: hendrik at topoi.pooq.com (Hendrik Boom)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2022 07:10:40 -0500
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CAPweEDxzBPDqnMxB4c+A7Z4yAhdrg4w0H=HvfVO_BQQX3s2A7g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAPweEDzg3zvpAjtjtxsq9oq0OpP9j9Fyg4vzQqbYGCEWzesang@mail.gmail.com>
	<4337270.zu7JEnyKaF@jason>
	<CAPweEDxzBPDqnMxB4c+A7Z4yAhdrg4w0H=HvfVO_BQQX3s2A7g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20221122121039.GC2071@topoi.pooq.com>

On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 11:01:25PM +0000, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
> On Monday, November 21, 2022, Paul Boddie <paul at boddie.org.uk> wrote:
> > On Monday, 21 November 2022 22:38:48 CET Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
> wrote:
> >> paul, apologies, i misread. let me start again.
> >>
> >> On Monday, November 21, 2022, Paul Boddie <paul at boddie.org.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >> > One is too busy and directs us to the other who is incommunicative.
> >>
> >> this is the bit that is ambiguous and caused me to misunderstand.
> >> whom is "one" and whom is "the other" when there are *three*
> >> potential parties involved?
> >
> > OK, when someone is asked by Crowd Supply to contact the creators
> directly,
> > you (as creator #1) are evidently too busy
> 
> no, this is wrong.  or, factually misleading.
> the 93 Cards are at *Think Penguin's premises*.
> 
> i have spent 18 months persistently attempting
> communication to recover those Cards.
> 
> we are WAITING for the results of TESTING of those Cards.
> 
> proceeding with the manufacture of the remaining 800 is
> a HUGE RISK without information on the state of the 93
> that are WITHELD by Chris of Think Penguin.
> 
> i am waiting JUST AS MUCH AS YOU ARE.
> 
> there is no further action i can take beyond repeating
> that the course of action is for ALL OF YOU to
> CONTACT CHRISTOPHER WAID.
> 
> 
> > and have directed us to Christopher
> > Waid (as creator #2) who is incommunicative.
> 
> i repeat.
> 
> once again.
> 
> public pressure from multiple sources and backers is
> our last best chance.
> 
> it will require multiple people, systematically, and
> it will require those people to put the resultant
> conversations onto publicly-accessible Social Media,
> especially forums where Thinkpenguin customers are
> likely to be present in some numbers.
> 
> this type of action will cause Chris to lose business if
> he does not respond to paying customers, which should
> be sufficient to finally get him to respond.
> 
> it is uncomfortable, but tough: i cannot protect him any
> longer from the consequences of his failure to communicate.
> 
> 
> > Personally, I find it all a bit perplexing. Although I know that you
> brought
> > Mr Waid into the effort with there apparently being some particular
> interest
> > from him in the laptop, I would imagine that most people following this
> > project would have expected you to bring the effort to completion
> yourself:
> 
> fuck no, you must be absolutely kidding. you cannot possibly be serious.
> 
> if you genuinely believe that then you cannot possibly have
> been reading the updates where i specifically request assistance
> and remind everyone systematically that this is and always
> has been a COMMUNITY project where it lives and dies on what
> people help out with.
> 
> examples include writing documentation, wiki pages, developing
> linux kernel support, u-boot patches and getting OS Support
> up and running.  none of which i can possibly be expected to
> handle alone.
> 
> i also go to some lengths to repeatedly state that as a
> Certification Mark Holder i am NOT PERMITTED TO SELL PRODUCT
> because it is a Conflict of Interest with the role and
> responsibility of a Certification Mark Holder.
> 
> once again, from the top:
> 
> it places the ENTIRE PROJECT AT RISK to proceed with the
> manufacture of the remaining Cards without first testing
> the 93 that are being witheld by Chrstopher Waid at his
> business premises.
> 
> Mike needs to know if the yield was 95% or if it was 5%.
> 
> we have no idea.
> 
> 91 of those Cards could be FAULTY and CHRIS HAS NOT TOLD US
> 
> without knowing what the fault might be, Mike is risking
> proceeding to manufacture A THOUSAND FAULTY UNRECOVERABLE CARDS
> 
> at which point this project will have no other choice but
> to be declared terminated.
> 
> so will you please
> 
> will you please
> 
> for god's sake
> 
> stop arguing
> 
> stop speculating
> 
> and please
> 
> please
> 
> LISTEN
> 
> and HELP
> 
> by CONTACTING CHRISTOPHER WAID
> 
> to ask him very simply: "where are the 93 Cards"
> 
> so that we can send a Courier round to recover them, get them
> to Portland, so that Joshua can test them.
> 
> l.
> 

This whole conversation is making me wonder if Chris is still alive.

-- hendrik

> 
> -- 
> ---
> crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
> _______________________________________________
> arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook at lists.phcomp.co.uk
> http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
> Send large attachments to arm-netbook at files.phcomp.co.uk


From lkcl at lkcl.net  Tue Nov 22 13:08:49 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2022 13:08:49 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <20221122121039.GC2071@topoi.pooq.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAPweEDzg3zvpAjtjtxsq9oq0OpP9j9Fyg4vzQqbYGCEWzesang@mail.gmail.com>
	<4337270.zu7JEnyKaF@jason>
	<CAPweEDxzBPDqnMxB4c+A7Z4yAhdrg4w0H=HvfVO_BQQX3s2A7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20221122121039.GC2071@topoi.pooq.com>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDxoAN+Fxy4+VhzKp7tYNEmA5EXMHhpCRkV+HDA=hjmwgw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 12:11 PM Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com> wrote:

> This whole conversation is making me wonder if Chris is still alive.

this was my very first thought.  we did some research, and found
that there is _some_ empirical evidence which _might_ support
the hypothesis that he is alive (and free), in the form of these podcasts:

   https://www.freedomdecrypted.com/

however on reflection, i realise (only now) that, actually:

1) they could be pre-recorded at a far earlier date than publication
2) they could have been pre-recorded at a completely different location
    (such as a correctional facility).

in other words we have no actual direct evidence that, at this precise
and exact time, that Chris is living and operating his business from his
premises (which is also his home) in Keene, NH.

an actual study - by listening to the podcasts - to check for new
events - would establish whether the podcasts are live, delayed by one
day, delayed by one week, or a month, or posthumous.

l.


From charlesrcard at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 22 21:58:44 2022
From: charlesrcard at yahoo.com (Chuck Card)
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2022 21:58:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CAPweEDxoAN+Fxy4+VhzKp7tYNEmA5EXMHhpCRkV+HDA=hjmwgw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAPweEDzg3zvpAjtjtxsq9oq0OpP9j9Fyg4vzQqbYGCEWzesang@mail.gmail.com>
	<4337270.zu7JEnyKaF@jason>
	<CAPweEDxzBPDqnMxB4c+A7Z4yAhdrg4w0H=HvfVO_BQQX3s2A7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20221122121039.GC2071@topoi.pooq.com>
	<CAPweEDxoAN+Fxy4+VhzKp7tYNEmA5EXMHhpCRkV+HDA=hjmwgw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <111413642.1598353.1669154324976@mail.yahoo.com>

 I am not going to read this entire thread. All I can say is that I have been ripped off for $1000.00 plus by this 'project'I did get 2 t-shirts though...No more crowd funding for me.In my book it's all a SCAM.CHANGE MY MIND!!!!
    On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 08:09:56 AM EST, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl at lkcl.net> wrote:  
 
 On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 12:11 PM Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com> wrote:

> This whole conversation is making me wonder if Chris is still alive.

this was my very first thought.  we did some research, and found
that there is _some_ empirical evidence which _might_ support
the hypothesis that he is alive (and free), in the form of these podcasts:

  https://www.freedomdecrypted.com/

however on reflection, i realise (only now) that, actually:

1) they could be pre-recorded at a far earlier date than publication
2) they could have been pre-recorded at a completely different location
    (such as a correctional facility).

in other words we have no actual direct evidence that, at this precise
and exact time, that Chris is living and operating his business from his
premises (which is also his home) in Keene, NH.

an actual study - by listening to the podcasts - to check for new
events - would establish whether the podcasts are live, delayed by one
day, delayed by one week, or a month, or posthumous.

l.

_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook at lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send large attachments to arm-netbook at files.phcomp.co.uk  

From sucotronic at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 09:05:29 2022
From: sucotronic at gmail.com (Felix)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2022 10:05:29 +0100
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CAPweEDxoAN+Fxy4+VhzKp7tYNEmA5EXMHhpCRkV+HDA=hjmwgw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAPweEDzg3zvpAjtjtxsq9oq0OpP9j9Fyg4vzQqbYGCEWzesang@mail.gmail.com>
	<4337270.zu7JEnyKaF@jason>
	<CAPweEDxzBPDqnMxB4c+A7Z4yAhdrg4w0H=HvfVO_BQQX3s2A7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20221122121039.GC2071@topoi.pooq.com>
	<CAPweEDxoAN+Fxy4+VhzKp7tYNEmA5EXMHhpCRkV+HDA=hjmwgw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABnoYk2ULMkxsKOtRvQy7C4BpRAsNjDe=iCiAcFtLJyNJDhbzw@mail.gmail.com>

I tried my two cents.
Wrote in ther latest podcast blog a comment suggesting to take a look:
https://imgur.com/a/VmZ1T65
Today noticed that the comment was deleted :P

El mar, 22 nov 2022 a las 14:09, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton (<
lkcl at lkcl.net>) escribió:

> On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 12:11 PM Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
> wrote:
>
> > This whole conversation is making me wonder if Chris is still alive.
>
> this was my very first thought.  we did some research, and found
> that there is _some_ empirical evidence which _might_ support
> the hypothesis that he is alive (and free), in the form of these podcasts:
>
>    https://www.freedomdecrypted.com/
>
> however on reflection, i realise (only now) that, actually:
>
> 1) they could be pre-recorded at a far earlier date than publication
> 2) they could have been pre-recorded at a completely different location
>     (such as a correctional facility).
>
> in other words we have no actual direct evidence that, at this precise
> and exact time, that Chris is living and operating his business from his
> premises (which is also his home) in Keene, NH.
>
> an actual study - by listening to the podcasts - to check for new
> events - would establish whether the podcasts are live, delayed by one
> day, delayed by one week, or a month, or posthumous.
>
> l.
>
> _______________________________________________
> arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook at lists.phcomp.co.uk
> http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
> Send large attachments to arm-netbook at files.phcomp.co.uk



-- 
Felix

From tzafrir at cohens.org.il  Wed Nov 23 16:05:16 2022
From: tzafrir at cohens.org.il (Tzafrir Cohen)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2022 18:05:16 +0200
Subject: [Arm-netbook] You have been unsubscribed from the arm-netbook
	mailing list
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1669103598.1714.arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk>
References: <mailman.1.1669103598.1714.arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Y35EvBJFcig9UZtE@malaclypse.cohens.org.il>

Hi,

Despite the mail suggesting otherwise, I was not.

I have already mailed admin@ and such. I guess it's time to redirect
mailing list messages elsewhere. Just wanted to note this in case this
is an issue of someone else. I guess someone need to kick the list server
at the right spot.

Anyway, thanks to all list members for everything I learned here.
Cheers,

On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 07:53:18AM +0000, arm-netbook-bounces at lists.phcomp.co.uk wrote:

-- 
mail / xmpp / matrix: tzafrir at cohens.org.il


From paul at boddie.org.uk  Wed Nov 23 16:53:49 2022
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2022 17:53:49 +0100
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CAPweEDxzBPDqnMxB4c+A7Z4yAhdrg4w0H=HvfVO_BQQX3s2A7g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4337270.zu7JEnyKaF@jason>
	<CAPweEDxzBPDqnMxB4c+A7Z4yAhdrg4w0H=HvfVO_BQQX3s2A7g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9024787.LWyaFMVAOZ@jason>

On Tuesday, 22 November 2022 00:01:25 CET Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
> On Monday, November 21, 2022, Paul Boddie <paul at boddie.org.uk> wrote:
> > 
> > OK, when someone is asked by Crowd Supply to contact the creators
> > directly, you (as creator #1) are evidently too busy
> 
> no, this is wrong.  or, factually misleading.
> the 93 Cards are at *Think Penguin's premises*.

>From a message in March 2021:

"hiya Felix, yes doing well, very busy with LibreSOC tape-out is soon.

Chris received the other 90 of the Cards, for testing before the remaining
900 are done."

People asked again during 2021 and got no further replies. So, yes, we get it: 
you are busy with your other project.

> i have spent 18 months persistently attempting
> communication to recover those Cards.

Well, I am sorry that you have been persistently attempting communication, but 
probably one of the things that we have collectively learned in recent years 
is that without continuous communication with those who have supported a 
crowdfunding campaign, confidence in that campaign evaporates rapidly.

Sadly, campaigns that have suffered from insurmountable setbacks tend to 
demotivate their creators, diminish their willingness to communicate, and then 
people start to question the motivations of those creators. I can think of at 
least one other campaign in which I have had some interest where this has 
probably happened.

Most of us here do not question your motivations, but I know of at least one 
other project which I follow (but have no direct interest in) where the 
creator has suffered from numerous setbacks and yet has continually kept their 
supporters informed, even if the news has been negative. Apart from a couple 
of provocateurs, most of the people who are involved seem sympathetic to the 
creator and their situation.

I know that you do not like your actions being reviewed and questioned, so let 
these be some more general observations for posterity, for those willing to 
take something away from this effort. On such matters, more in a moment.

[...]

> > Personally, I find it all a bit perplexing. Although I know that you
> > brought Mr Waid into the effort with there apparently being some
> > particular interest from him in the laptop, I would imagine that most
> > people following this project would have expected you to bring the effort
> > to completion yourself:
> 
> fuck no, you must be absolutely kidding. you cannot possibly be serious.
> 
> if you genuinely believe that then you cannot possibly have
> been reading the updates where i specifically request assistance
> and remind everyone systematically that this is and always
> has been a COMMUNITY project where it lives and dies on what
> people help out with.

I wasn't going to bother replying to your message at all until I read this. 
After all, there is not much to say about some kind of communications failure  
between two business associates supposedly under the supervision of an online 
commerce platform (to take the most charitable interpretation and ignoring the 
exhortations to name and shame or for a manhunt to take place).

But where I take great exception is the way you address and otherwise 
communicate with other people. Six or so years ago, you launched a 
crowdfunding campaign on the basis of working prototypes of a computer card 
and depictions of products that were claimed to be in the advanced stages of 
development. This whole endeavour was framed in terms of your expertise, 
connections and abilities to go and get things made.

When appearances proved to be deceptive, as in the instance of the 
microdesktop case that had apparently been specially made to illustrate the 
product, people were told that it was their job to pitch in and design the 
actual product. So, although there was a portrayal of finished items on offer, 
when the absence of such finished items was revealed, it suddenly became the 
job of the "community" to remedy the situation.

And when somebody did offer their assistance, they inadvertently transgressed 
with respect to your personal choice of collaboration tools, and you treated 
them appallingly. I completely regret not speaking out forcefully about this 
at the time. A genuine community project should be a democracy and 
participants should be treated with respect. Instead, you seem to think that a 
community involves you deciding how things should be done and then telling 
everyone that you "need" them to do it, as if they are your employees.

> examples include writing documentation, wiki pages, developing
> linux kernel support, u-boot patches and getting OS Support
> up and running.  none of which i can possibly be expected to
> handle alone.

In fact, some of us have attempted to engage with the supposed community 
aspects of this effort. But again, if the role of the community is merely to 
channel the thoughts of the important and very busy leader into actions, then 
there are several obstacles. Firstly, people need to have concrete things to 
work with if they are to do concrete tasks, and they also need to be empowered 
to get the work done and to be able to provide input and exercise influence.

Amongst other things, I have actually looked into some of the tasks around 
documentation and kernel support. One fundamental element of the kernel 
support was the way that housings should affect the devices seen by the 
computer card. I had a long discussion with you about this in 2020 where you 
insisted that with regard to the mechanisms in the Linux kernel...

"it's all there.  the pieces are in place."

Supposedly, all the support had been introduced for Raspberry Pi "hats", but 
when I looked they didn't actually address the problem. That is another issue 
about taking direction from someone who thinks they have all the answers: 
often, those answers don't stand up to scrutiny. However, with regard to the 
Linux kernel, with its own form of unconstructive, exploitative "community" 
dynamics, I should probably give you some benefit of the doubt if you had the 
wrong impression.

All of this is pretty academic without actual hardware to use, leaving us 
treading water in the hope of something eventually showing up. At one point in 
the distant past, actual hardware was distributed to various individuals. What 
happened to that hardware and what work was actually done? Maybe those people 
treated it like another toy to play with and then found themselves distracted 
by something else. That might as well have been the backstory.

I am inclined to think that failure should be considered the default outcome 
of any crowdfunding campaign. Responsible crowdfunding should therefore 
involve conferring the ability to reproduce what was done to those who have 
supported the effort. If the campaign doesn't deliver, people should be able 
to salvage what was actually done to provide the chance of resuming that 
effort in other forms. Of course, if such a project were a genuine community 
effort, everybody would already have access to everything they might need.

For all its emphasis on open hardware, Crowd Supply should really be insisting 
on such transparency and the empowerment of actual communities, rather than 
trying to have it both ways as a kind of retail experience but without any 
guarantees of delivery, potentially leaving its customers without anything to 
show for their investments of time, effort and money.

[...]

> to ask him very simply: "where are the 93 Cards"
> 
> so that we can send a Courier round to recover them, get them
> to Portland, so that Joshua can test them.

Although the argument has been presented that all of this has been very 
frustrating and/or delicate and that much has been tried behind the scenes to 
make progress, I view the lack of transparency rather negatively. It may be 
the case that you have wanted to communicate the situation but Crowd Supply 
have been reluctant to do so, but the outcome has been to conceal the gradual 
failure of a project, making me wonder how many other campaigns are 
experiencing similar or other forms of failure that are not communicated.

In any case, you don't need me or anyone else to send messages to some guy on 
another continent to initiate whatever action is necessary. Whatever I might 
do is completely superfluous to whatever could already be done to resolve this 
matter. You would almost be better off asking Warren Buffett to intervene. At 
least he would have an opinion about funding people's projects as well as 
carrying a degree of actual influence via corporate ownership hierarchy.

Paul




From lkcl at lkcl.net  Wed Nov 23 20:13:26 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2022 20:13:26 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CABnoYk2ULMkxsKOtRvQy7C4BpRAsNjDe=iCiAcFtLJyNJDhbzw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAPweEDzg3zvpAjtjtxsq9oq0OpP9j9Fyg4vzQqbYGCEWzesang@mail.gmail.com>
	<4337270.zu7JEnyKaF@jason>
	<CAPweEDxzBPDqnMxB4c+A7Z4yAhdrg4w0H=HvfVO_BQQX3s2A7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20221122121039.GC2071@topoi.pooq.com>
	<CAPweEDxoAN+Fxy4+VhzKp7tYNEmA5EXMHhpCRkV+HDA=hjmwgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABnoYk2ULMkxsKOtRvQy7C4BpRAsNjDe=iCiAcFtLJyNJDhbzw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDwx8rhTnC7cDxXjLjuQe1VH6n1yGsSdgTpeNsyxCoGYbA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wednesday, November 23, 2022, Felix <sucotronic at gmail.com> wrote:
> I tried my two cents.
> Wrote in ther latest podcast blog a comment suggesting to take a look:
> https://imgur.com/a/VmZ1T65
> Today noticed that the comment was deleted :P

i am not in the least bit surprised.  and isn't ironic
that "Freedom Unleashed" engages in Censorship?

now you see why i said that multiple public messages
are required, from all backers.  Chris will not be
able to keep up with Censorship and will eventua!ly
be compelled to answer.  that's all he has to do.
answer the simple question "where are the 93 Cards"

i'll notify Crowd Supply. it makes the job of writing a
very tough update a little easier if Joshua knows in
advance roughly what to expect.

l.




-- 
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

From lkcl at lkcl.net  Wed Nov 23 20:18:23 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2022 20:18:23 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <111413642.1598353.1669154324976@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAPweEDzg3zvpAjtjtxsq9oq0OpP9j9Fyg4vzQqbYGCEWzesang@mail.gmail.com>
	<4337270.zu7JEnyKaF@jason>
	<CAPweEDxzBPDqnMxB4c+A7Z4yAhdrg4w0H=HvfVO_BQQX3s2A7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20221122121039.GC2071@topoi.pooq.com>
	<CAPweEDxoAN+Fxy4+VhzKp7tYNEmA5EXMHhpCRkV+HDA=hjmwgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<111413642.1598353.1669154324976@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDyaqMs+Wie99ZbDkk6HiSdjhJHWNMdzpXHOZO0jt7KtMg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022, Chuck Card via arm-netbook <
arm-netbook at lists.phcomp.co.uk> wrote:

>  I am not going to read this entire thread. All I can say is that I have
been ripped off for $1000.00 plus by this 'project'I did get 2 t-shirts
though...No more crowd funding for me.In my book it's all a SCAM.CHANGE MY
MIND!!!!

don't be a fucking dickhead, Chuck.  fucking well take
reponsibility and fucking well help by pressurising Chris
to tell us where YOUR Card is.

because I can tell you right now, because you called this
project "a scam" despite 75 updates keeping you informed
of every single step of the way, i'm definitely allocating
one of the Cards being witheld by Chris as YOURS.

you want it you can fucking well contact him.

get the message?

start taking responsibility and quit pressurising or blaming
me after everything i've done.

l.


-- 
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

From charlesrcard at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 23 21:57:16 2022
From: charlesrcard at yahoo.com (Chuck Card)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2022 21:57:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CAPweEDwx8rhTnC7cDxXjLjuQe1VH6n1yGsSdgTpeNsyxCoGYbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAPweEDzg3zvpAjtjtxsq9oq0OpP9j9Fyg4vzQqbYGCEWzesang@mail.gmail.com>
	<4337270.zu7JEnyKaF@jason>
	<CAPweEDxzBPDqnMxB4c+A7Z4yAhdrg4w0H=HvfVO_BQQX3s2A7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20221122121039.GC2071@topoi.pooq.com>
	<CAPweEDxoAN+Fxy4+VhzKp7tYNEmA5EXMHhpCRkV+HDA=hjmwgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABnoYk2ULMkxsKOtRvQy7C4BpRAsNjDe=iCiAcFtLJyNJDhbzw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDwx8rhTnC7cDxXjLjuQe1VH6n1yGsSdgTpeNsyxCoGYbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <504254041.3431808.1669240636793@mail.yahoo.com>

     I'm the dick head.
GO FUCK YOURSELF YOU FUCKING CUNT OR IS IT KUNT OF A MUTHA FUCKING ASSHOLE.
    On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 03:21:43 PM EST, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl at lkcl.net> wrote:  
 
 On Wednesday, November 23, 2022, Felix <sucotronic at gmail.com> wrote:
> I tried my two cents.
> Wrote in ther latest podcast blog a comment suggesting to take a look:
> https://imgur.com/a/VmZ1T65
> Today noticed that the comment was deleted :P

i am not in the least bit surprised.  and isn't ironic
that "Freedom Unleashed" engages in Censorship?

now you see why i said that multiple public messages
are required, from all backers.  Chris will not be
able to keep up with Censorship and will eventua!ly
be compelled to answer.  that's all he has to do.
answer the simple question "where are the 93 Cards"

i'll notify Crowd Supply. it makes the job of writing a
very tough update a little easier if Joshua knows in
advance roughly what to expect.

l.




-- 
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook at lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send large attachments to arm-netbook at files.phcomp.co.uk  

From laserhawk64 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 22:00:56 2022
From: laserhawk64 at gmail.com (Christopher Havel)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2022 17:00:56 -0500
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <504254041.3431808.1669240636793@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAPweEDzg3zvpAjtjtxsq9oq0OpP9j9Fyg4vzQqbYGCEWzesang@mail.gmail.com>
	<4337270.zu7JEnyKaF@jason>
	<CAPweEDxzBPDqnMxB4c+A7Z4yAhdrg4w0H=HvfVO_BQQX3s2A7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20221122121039.GC2071@topoi.pooq.com>
	<CAPweEDxoAN+Fxy4+VhzKp7tYNEmA5EXMHhpCRkV+HDA=hjmwgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABnoYk2ULMkxsKOtRvQy7C4BpRAsNjDe=iCiAcFtLJyNJDhbzw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDwx8rhTnC7cDxXjLjuQe1VH6n1yGsSdgTpeNsyxCoGYbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<504254041.3431808.1669240636793@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CA+kEFNLqJJb8TQ2r_8LH8Yh=txqP5RDBeG9UoU6QDaNtpRWTKg@mail.gmail.com>

/sigh

Now, class...

From laserhawk64 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 22:10:15 2022
From: laserhawk64 at gmail.com (Christopher Havel)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2022 17:10:15 -0500
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CA+kEFNLqJJb8TQ2r_8LH8Yh=txqP5RDBeG9UoU6QDaNtpRWTKg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAPweEDzg3zvpAjtjtxsq9oq0OpP9j9Fyg4vzQqbYGCEWzesang@mail.gmail.com>
	<4337270.zu7JEnyKaF@jason>
	<CAPweEDxzBPDqnMxB4c+A7Z4yAhdrg4w0H=HvfVO_BQQX3s2A7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20221122121039.GC2071@topoi.pooq.com>
	<CAPweEDxoAN+Fxy4+VhzKp7tYNEmA5EXMHhpCRkV+HDA=hjmwgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABnoYk2ULMkxsKOtRvQy7C4BpRAsNjDe=iCiAcFtLJyNJDhbzw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDwx8rhTnC7cDxXjLjuQe1VH6n1yGsSdgTpeNsyxCoGYbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<504254041.3431808.1669240636793@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CA+kEFNLqJJb8TQ2r_8LH8Yh=txqP5RDBeG9UoU6QDaNtpRWTKg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+kEFNLLUJqFbmBSCX2jUg82uSPg-_Lu1kUwTxTiAHXzA0bOfg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 23, 2022 at 5:00 PM Christopher Havel <laserhawk64 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> /sigh
>
> Now, class...
>

I wish I had the kind of energy and stamina all ya'll seem to have. One of
my rescued laptops committed sepukku Sunday shortly after arriving at my
father's for Thanksgiving. Needs a motherboard. Then I was in the ER for
nine hours Monday learning what it feels like to have a kidney stone.
Yesterday I spent recovering from that, and from spending basically the
entire night Monday-into-Tuesday on the can getting rid of the blame thing.
I'm only just now settling into my vacay and ya'll all are still at it like
a whole SCHOOL full of kindergartners who've all just found out there's a
nationwide shortage of Kool-Aid.

I mean, on the one hand, it sure makes quite a racket. But on the other,
hey, can I borrow some of that? I have a gaming computer to build and I'm
still working out how, and my apartment REALLY needs a proper clean -- I
have what I'm pretty sure is a chronic pain disorder that since late Dec
2020 has become coincident with a mild case of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome,
and at this point I'm literally just relying on friends.

Ya'll all got some energy goin. I could USE that shit yo!

LOL.

(Hey, if ya can't take a few steps back, look at your life, and laugh,
somethin's seriously wrong... y'know?)

From lkcl at lkcl.net  Wed Nov 23 22:19:01 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2022 22:19:01 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <9024787.LWyaFMVAOZ@jason>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4337270.zu7JEnyKaF@jason>
	<CAPweEDxzBPDqnMxB4c+A7Z4yAhdrg4w0H=HvfVO_BQQX3s2A7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<9024787.LWyaFMVAOZ@jason>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDxz6GqxtZsSisuaEQ68ZXSnKE8AZ_am7jNsthkv0CMrbQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wednesday, November 23, 2022, Paul Boddie <paul at boddie.org.uk> wrote:

> Well, I am sorry that you have been persistently attempting
communication, but
> probably one of the things that we have collectively learned in recent
years
> is that without continuous communication with those who have supported a
> crowdfunding campaign, confidence in that campaign evaporates rapidly.

in this exceptional case, i am sorry to say, "tough".

if this list was private rather than public, i would
have been able to reach out to everyone at the exact
time *in real time* as Chris was failing to respond.

i would have been able to say, to everyone,  "that's
really strange, Chris has taken 0.8 BTC and receipt
of the 93 Cards, promised to test them and begin
shipping them out... and yet here we are, August 2021
no response, Jan 2022 no response, a year later March 2022
no response, November 2022 over 18 months later no response,
what the hell."

i could not possibly write that because it could damage Chris's
business, and he was the one who sponsored me for
USD *60 THOUSAND* over a 2+ year period including equipment.

one person every 3 weeks has emailed project-questions and
i have asked every single one of them to contact Chris.

no response.

now he has definitely deliberately evaded answering, i am
extremely pissed off.  i trusted him with that BTC and with
those Cards, and as best i can tell he's embezzled them.
it may be that the FBI raided his premises and stole thm,
but *we don't know* because he *won't fucking respond*

this has to all go into the Update that i have been holding
back for literally a year because of the damage it could
do to Chris's business.


> Most of us here do not question your motivations, but I know of at least
one
> other project which I follow (but have no direct interest in) where the
> creator has suffered from numerous setbacks and yet has continually kept
their
> supporters informed, even if the news has been negative.

there is a world of difference between "negative" and
"potentially being so bad it causes the evader to go bankrupt".

Apart from a couple
> of provocateurs, most of the people who are involved seem sympathetic to
the
> creator and their situation.
>
> I know that you do not like your actions being reviewed and questioned,

this is completely incorrect: i am paranoid about ensuring
i keep people informed, such that things *can* be reviewed
and questioned.

what i am *very* pissed off about and will not tolerate is
people assuming that i can and am going to do everything for
them. this attitude is completely unacceptable.

you - all of you - have no fucking idea how much my life
has been absolute hell, to bring this campaign to fruition.
subsistence living, moving 15 times, zero holidays, no
health insurance and degraded quality of life due to severe
debilitating illness, for TEN YEARS.

and i'm being told i'm a "scammer" and should deliver what
you DEMAND?? fuck off!!


> when the absence of such finished items was revealed, it suddenly became
the
> job of the "community" to remedy the situation.

Paul: *read* the updates. look above at the circumstances
i describe i have been living under.  i even moved to Taiwan,
being completely isolated, unable to communicate with anyone
except through translation software, to keep living costs
down, in order to continue.

> And when somebody did offer their assistance, they inadvertently
transgressed
> with respect to your personal choice of collaboration tools, and you
treated
> them appallingly. I completely regret not speaking out forcefully about
this
> at the time. A genuine community project should be a democracy and
> participants should be treated with respect. Instead, you seem to think
that a
> community involves you deciding how things should be done and then telling
> everyone that you "need" them to do it, as if they are your employees.

i'm sorry you feel that way.  you should indeed have spoken
up because it would have allowed the misunderstanding to be
cleared up.

with the ill health and barely-above poverty subsistence level
income, and overwhelming isolation you perhaps can appreciate
or empathise why it appeared i have been "demanding".

if there was more money available, i could have offered it
to people.

>> examples include writing documentation, wiki pages, developing
>> linux kernel support, u-boot patches and getting OS Support
>> up and running.  none of which i can possibly be expected to
>> handle alone.
>
> In fact, some of us have attempted to engage with the supposed community
> aspects of this effort. But again, if the role of the community is merely
to
> channel the thoughts of the important and very busy leader into actions,
then
> there are several obstacles. Firstly, people need to have concrete things
to
> work with if they are to do concrete tasks, and they also need to be
empowered
> to get the work done and to be able to provide input and exercise
influence.
>
> Amongst other things, I have actually looked into some of the tasks around
> documentation and kernel support. One fundamental element of the kernel
> support was the way that housings should affect the devices seen by the
> computer card. I had a long discussion with you about this in 2020 where
you
> insisted that with regard to the mechanisms in the Linux kernel...
>
> "it's all there.  the pieces are in place."

yes. devicetree overlays emerged over time, and Alan Cox
advised that the I2C Bus Scanning could be placed in lib/.


> Supposedly, all the support had been introduced for Raspberry Pi "hats",
but
> when I looked they didn't actually address the problem.

i would, in all frank honestly, not expect the wider Pi
community to be able to find their derrieres with both hands,
but occasionally a gem of a recipe "snippet" pops up from
an expert or a highly-motivated individual, which is nice.

disappointing to hear it didn't happen in this case, but not
a great surprise.  i would expect better luck amongst TI
Beagleboard community and 96Boards, though.

debian however is going to be a lot of hoop-jumping as
overlays are not enabled by default.

> That is another issue
> about taking direction from someone who thinks they have all the answers:
> often, those answers don't stand up to scrutiny. However, with regard to
the
> Linux kernel, with its own form of unconstructive, exploitative
"community"
> dynamics, I should probably give you some benefit of the doubt if you had
the
> wrong impression.

the general entrepreneur and Engineering mindset "i don't know
the answer but have the tools to find it" has only ever failed me
due to sheer overwhelming exhaustion, not for any other reason.

> All of this is pretty academic without actual hardware to use, leaving us
> treading water in the hope of something eventually showing up. At one
point in
> the distant past, actual hardware was distributed to various individuals.
What
> happened to that hardware

i don't know! very few went out.  the gnu guix team got one
each, i *think* tobias platen got guix operational, but he
is quite reclusive and didn't widely announce it.

with exhaustion and lack of money from the campaign funds
i had to focus my time on earning money for my family.
if people don't ask or don't tell, i am not going to
chase them, it costs me time and money to do so.

like right now.

nobody is paying me money for writing this.


> I am inclined to think that failure should be considered the default
outcome
> of any crowdfunding campaign. Responsible crowdfunding should therefore
> involve conferring the ability to reproduce what was done to those who
have
> supported the effort.

a fascinating observation. the project's intended as Trademarked
(Cert-Marked) FOSSHW.


>> so that we can send a Courier round to recover them, get them
>> to Portland, so that Joshua can test them.
>
> Although the argument has been presented that all of this has been very
> frustrating and/or delicate and that much has been tried behind the
scenes to
> make progress, I view the lack of transparency rather negatively.

above. would you write something publicly that resulted in
someone losing their livelihood after they'd given you money
to feed yourself and your family for over two years?

could you do that to someone?

have a look at some of the news coming out of Keene, NH.
Chris has been through some pretty rough shit. he doesn't
need to be treated any rougher.

> It may be
> the case that you have wanted to communicate the situation but Crowd
Supply
> have been reluctant to do so,

no, they've been extremely good, encouraging me.
Joshua wants those Cards so that he *personally*
can do the testing.


> In any case, you don't need me or anyone else to send messages to some
guy on
> another continent to initiate whatever action is necessary.

yes, i (or, the project) really do (does).

you underestimate the power of personal embarrassment.

if you like i can assign the Cards that you pledged to be in
the batch that is within Chris's personal possession?
if that helps to give you the perspective and motivation
that yes, there is concrete action directly related to
you, that a direct and real person is witholding items
that are your personal property, then i am happy to do that?

the idea there is that it would nip in the bud any impression
that you are doing something you feel uncomfortable about
taking responsibility for (to the benefit of everyone),
instead replacing that with something that is very much
about you, and you alone.

what do you think? if you would still not contact him to
say "where is MY computer Card" then i will not do it, as
there's no point.

Whatever I might
> do is completely superfluous to whatever could already be done to resolve
this
> matter.

no, really, this is false, and diminishes the true power
that you have.  the sheer numbers are what he
cannot deny.  he cannot keep censoring 2,500 people or
censor slashdot or other large news outlet.

if you are just one person, yes he can ignore you.

if you are part of a crowd, no.

come on, you must know how this works.

l.


-- 
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

From lkcl at lkcl.net  Wed Nov 23 22:24:53 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2022 22:24:53 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <504254041.3431808.1669240636793@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAPweEDzg3zvpAjtjtxsq9oq0OpP9j9Fyg4vzQqbYGCEWzesang@mail.gmail.com>
	<4337270.zu7JEnyKaF@jason>
	<CAPweEDxzBPDqnMxB4c+A7Z4yAhdrg4w0H=HvfVO_BQQX3s2A7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20221122121039.GC2071@topoi.pooq.com>
	<CAPweEDxoAN+Fxy4+VhzKp7tYNEmA5EXMHhpCRkV+HDA=hjmwgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABnoYk2ULMkxsKOtRvQy7C4BpRAsNjDe=iCiAcFtLJyNJDhbzw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDwx8rhTnC7cDxXjLjuQe1VH6n1yGsSdgTpeNsyxCoGYbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<504254041.3431808.1669240636793@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDx3Cur0Y+4xv=T6t-1ko99rZUi0kTEVYNQz4pKVy6VGRA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wednesday, November 23, 2022, Chuck Card via arm-netbook <
arm-netbook at lists.phcomp.co.uk> wrote:
>      I'm the dick head.

yes, for assuming i should do everything for you,
where you could take responsibility and help out.
i know you won't have liked hearing that, for
which i'm sorry.

> GO FUCK YOURSELF YOU FUCKING CUNT OR IS IT KUNT OF A MUTHA FUCKING
ASSHOLE.

luckily i tolerate swearing because i understand how much
it helps relieve stress.  i say that as someone who is
in distress and pain (severe physical pain) about 40% of
my waking hours.

if you feel you need someone to get even angrier at, can i
suggest contacting Chris.  it might have the desired effect
of shocking him into telling us where your Card is.

l.



-- 
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

From lkcl at lkcl.net  Wed Nov 23 22:26:00 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2022 22:26:00 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CA+kEFNLqJJb8TQ2r_8LH8Yh=txqP5RDBeG9UoU6QDaNtpRWTKg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAPweEDzg3zvpAjtjtxsq9oq0OpP9j9Fyg4vzQqbYGCEWzesang@mail.gmail.com>
	<4337270.zu7JEnyKaF@jason>
	<CAPweEDxzBPDqnMxB4c+A7Z4yAhdrg4w0H=HvfVO_BQQX3s2A7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20221122121039.GC2071@topoi.pooq.com>
	<CAPweEDxoAN+Fxy4+VhzKp7tYNEmA5EXMHhpCRkV+HDA=hjmwgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABnoYk2ULMkxsKOtRvQy7C4BpRAsNjDe=iCiAcFtLJyNJDhbzw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDwx8rhTnC7cDxXjLjuQe1VH6n1yGsSdgTpeNsyxCoGYbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<504254041.3431808.1669240636793@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CA+kEFNLqJJb8TQ2r_8LH8Yh=txqP5RDBeG9UoU6QDaNtpRWTKg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDyULAM5BmgG7bOY_m84XzAVU6FW79GvYPtMdGaiVZAZQA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wednesday, November 23, 2022, Christopher Havel <laserhawk64 at gmail.com>
wrote:
> /sigh
>
> Now, class...

it serves a purpose, Chris. the Mythbusters episode on
swearing is particularly funny and informative.

l.



-- 
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

From laserhawk64 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 22:27:21 2022
From: laserhawk64 at gmail.com (Christopher Havel)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2022 17:27:21 -0500
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CAPweEDyULAM5BmgG7bOY_m84XzAVU6FW79GvYPtMdGaiVZAZQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAPweEDzg3zvpAjtjtxsq9oq0OpP9j9Fyg4vzQqbYGCEWzesang@mail.gmail.com>
	<4337270.zu7JEnyKaF@jason>
	<CAPweEDxzBPDqnMxB4c+A7Z4yAhdrg4w0H=HvfVO_BQQX3s2A7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20221122121039.GC2071@topoi.pooq.com>
	<CAPweEDxoAN+Fxy4+VhzKp7tYNEmA5EXMHhpCRkV+HDA=hjmwgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABnoYk2ULMkxsKOtRvQy7C4BpRAsNjDe=iCiAcFtLJyNJDhbzw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDwx8rhTnC7cDxXjLjuQe1VH6n1yGsSdgTpeNsyxCoGYbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<504254041.3431808.1669240636793@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CA+kEFNLqJJb8TQ2r_8LH8Yh=txqP5RDBeG9UoU6QDaNtpRWTKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDyULAM5BmgG7bOY_m84XzAVU6FW79GvYPtMdGaiVZAZQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+kEFNJ4Pp++yu8Eo+sDqx9b1YzZy0WTiJg052=8fL92kKBajg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 23, 2022, 5:26 PM Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl at lkcl.net>
wrote:

> On Wednesday, November 23, 2022, Christopher Havel <laserhawk64 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > /sigh
> >
> > Now, class...
>
> it serves a purpose, Chris. the Mythbusters episode on
> swearing is particularly funny and informative.
>
> l.
>
>
>
> --
> ---
> crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
> _______________________________________________
> arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook at lists.phcomp.co.uk
> http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
> Send large attachments to arm-netbook at files.phcomp.co.uk


Honestly, I'm more impressed by all ya'll's energy more'n anything else lol

From lkcl at lkcl.net  Wed Nov 23 22:30:54 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2022 22:30:54 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CA+kEFNJ4Pp++yu8Eo+sDqx9b1YzZy0WTiJg052=8fL92kKBajg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAPweEDzg3zvpAjtjtxsq9oq0OpP9j9Fyg4vzQqbYGCEWzesang@mail.gmail.com>
	<4337270.zu7JEnyKaF@jason>
	<CAPweEDxzBPDqnMxB4c+A7Z4yAhdrg4w0H=HvfVO_BQQX3s2A7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20221122121039.GC2071@topoi.pooq.com>
	<CAPweEDxoAN+Fxy4+VhzKp7tYNEmA5EXMHhpCRkV+HDA=hjmwgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABnoYk2ULMkxsKOtRvQy7C4BpRAsNjDe=iCiAcFtLJyNJDhbzw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDwx8rhTnC7cDxXjLjuQe1VH6n1yGsSdgTpeNsyxCoGYbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<504254041.3431808.1669240636793@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CA+kEFNLqJJb8TQ2r_8LH8Yh=txqP5RDBeG9UoU6QDaNtpRWTKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDyULAM5BmgG7bOY_m84XzAVU6FW79GvYPtMdGaiVZAZQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+kEFNJ4Pp++yu8Eo+sDqx9b1YzZy0WTiJg052=8fL92kKBajg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDz6htoevq2Jj63QEyWmAfcK8MvBYcA4EcwtNGQpDfhJ-Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Wednesday, November 23, 2022, Christopher Havel <laserhawk64 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Honestly, I'm more impressed by all ya'll's energy more'n anything else
lol

if only it could be diverted usefully...



-- 
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

From laserhawk64 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 23 23:19:20 2022
From: laserhawk64 at gmail.com (Christopher Havel)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2022 18:19:20 -0500
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CAPweEDz6htoevq2Jj63QEyWmAfcK8MvBYcA4EcwtNGQpDfhJ-Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAPweEDzg3zvpAjtjtxsq9oq0OpP9j9Fyg4vzQqbYGCEWzesang@mail.gmail.com>
	<4337270.zu7JEnyKaF@jason>
	<CAPweEDxzBPDqnMxB4c+A7Z4yAhdrg4w0H=HvfVO_BQQX3s2A7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20221122121039.GC2071@topoi.pooq.com>
	<CAPweEDxoAN+Fxy4+VhzKp7tYNEmA5EXMHhpCRkV+HDA=hjmwgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABnoYk2ULMkxsKOtRvQy7C4BpRAsNjDe=iCiAcFtLJyNJDhbzw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDwx8rhTnC7cDxXjLjuQe1VH6n1yGsSdgTpeNsyxCoGYbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<504254041.3431808.1669240636793@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CA+kEFNLqJJb8TQ2r_8LH8Yh=txqP5RDBeG9UoU6QDaNtpRWTKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDyULAM5BmgG7bOY_m84XzAVU6FW79GvYPtMdGaiVZAZQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+kEFNJ4Pp++yu8Eo+sDqx9b1YzZy0WTiJg052=8fL92kKBajg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDz6htoevq2Jj63QEyWmAfcK8MvBYcA4EcwtNGQpDfhJ-Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+kEFN+eJSqUmQmT024=XHAAZw1phvJdoJL7Q5z9k6C_BVffHg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 23, 2022 at 5:31 PM Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl at lkcl.net>
wrote:

> On Wednesday, November 23, 2022, Christopher Havel <laserhawk64 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Honestly, I'm more impressed by all ya'll's energy more'n anything else
> lol
>
> if only it could be diverted usefully...
>

I know, right? I'd love to have all ya'll's help cleaning...

( :P )

From charlesrcard at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 24 00:11:07 2022
From: charlesrcard at yahoo.com (Chuck Card)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 00:11:07 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CA+kEFN+eJSqUmQmT024=XHAAZw1phvJdoJL7Q5z9k6C_BVffHg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAPweEDzg3zvpAjtjtxsq9oq0OpP9j9Fyg4vzQqbYGCEWzesang@mail.gmail.com>
	<4337270.zu7JEnyKaF@jason>
	<CAPweEDxzBPDqnMxB4c+A7Z4yAhdrg4w0H=HvfVO_BQQX3s2A7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20221122121039.GC2071@topoi.pooq.com>
	<CAPweEDxoAN+Fxy4+VhzKp7tYNEmA5EXMHhpCRkV+HDA=hjmwgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABnoYk2ULMkxsKOtRvQy7C4BpRAsNjDe=iCiAcFtLJyNJDhbzw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDwx8rhTnC7cDxXjLjuQe1VH6n1yGsSdgTpeNsyxCoGYbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<504254041.3431808.1669240636793@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CA+kEFNLqJJb8TQ2r_8LH8Yh=txqP5RDBeG9UoU6QDaNtpRWTKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDyULAM5BmgG7bOY_m84XzAVU6FW79GvYPtMdGaiVZAZQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+kEFNJ4Pp++yu8Eo+sDqx9b1YzZy0WTiJg052=8fL92kKBajg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDz6htoevq2Jj63QEyWmAfcK8MvBYcA4EcwtNGQpDfhJ-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+kEFN+eJSqUmQmT024=XHAAZw1phvJdoJL7Q5z9k6C_BVffHg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <293762891.1449572.1669248667539@mail.yahoo.com>

 regarding:----------yes, for assuming i should do everything for you,
where you could take responsibility and help out.
i know you won't have liked hearing that, for
which i'm sorry.----------
No dude -- You're the one that started out with the assumptions. Plus your further assumptions that are evident in the above remark are way more reveling than you probably realize.
So as far as I am concerned, you can just go fuck all of the way off.Do you get me?

    On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 06:20:04 PM EST, Christopher Havel <laserhawk64 at gmail.com> wrote:  
 
 On Wed, Nov 23, 2022 at 5:31 PM Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl at lkcl.net>
wrote:

> On Wednesday, November 23, 2022, Christopher Havel <laserhawk64 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Honestly, I'm more impressed by all ya'll's energy more'n anything else
> lol
>
> if only it could be diverted usefully...
>

I know, right? I'd love to have all ya'll's help cleaning...

( :P )
_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook at lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send large attachments to arm-netbook at files.phcomp.co.uk  

From paul at boddie.org.uk  Thu Nov 24 00:11:18 2022
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 01:11:18 +0100
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CAPweEDxz6GqxtZsSisuaEQ68ZXSnKE8AZ_am7jNsthkv0CMrbQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<9024787.LWyaFMVAOZ@jason>
	<CAPweEDxz6GqxtZsSisuaEQ68ZXSnKE8AZ_am7jNsthkv0CMrbQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8650922.5nztI3dOCm@jason>

On Wednesday, 23 November 2022 23:19:01 CET Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton 
wrote:
> 
> what i am *very* pissed off about and will not tolerate is
> people assuming that i can and am going to do everything for
> them. this attitude is completely unacceptable.

Nobody asked you "to do everything for them". But they probably didn't 
appreciate the experience of being offered things and then being told "oh, 
that's your job" along with detailed instructions on how they should be doing 
it.

> you - all of you - have no fucking idea how much my life
> has been absolute hell, to bring this campaign to fruition.
> subsistence living, moving 15 times, zero holidays, no
> health insurance and degraded quality of life due to severe
> debilitating illness, for TEN YEARS.

Well, I am sincerely sorry that this has brought you hardship. It is not 
merely hindsight in saying that I could see that you were risking burning 
yourself out in the way you were pursuing this effort.

> and i'm being told i'm a "scammer" and should deliver what
> you DEMAND?? fuck off!!

I don't demand anything, really, haven't called you a scammer, nor do I 
believe that you are one, either. But it seems to me that you have spread 
yourself too thin, quite possibly to maximise the appeal of the campaign. 
However, none of that was done at our request.

I will return to remarks about "community" since you brought that up. In a 
community, it doesn't all fall to one person to do everything, but in a 
situation where someone has made themselves the central individual who decides 
and facilitates everything, it becomes very difficult to distribute the burden 
because there is no genuine delegation of anything. Why else do you think 
people have been wanting answers from you personally rather than from a 
selection of other people?

[...]

> above. would you write something publicly that resulted in
> someone losing their livelihood after they'd given you money
> to feed yourself and your family for over two years?
> 
> could you do that to someone?
> 
> have a look at some of the news coming out of Keene, NH.
> Chris has been through some pretty rough shit. he doesn't
> need to be treated any rougher.

I don't follow "the news coming out of Keene, NH", but you still seem to be 
advocating for the public shaming of the guy, so I might well wonder what the 
real deal is here, because this really doesn't add up at all. Are we supposed 
to act as your proxies in this matter as well?

I actually wouldn't mind some answers about how this situation was able to get 
to this rather unhappy point. The money seems to have flowed freely enough, 
and yet the only recourse being suggested appears to be a form of mob justice, 
despite the involvement of numerous commercial entities. I can hardly find 
that credible at all. In fact, I find it all rather distasteful.

Paul




From laserhawk64 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 00:39:25 2022
From: laserhawk64 at gmail.com (Christopher Havel)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2022 19:39:25 -0500
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <8650922.5nztI3dOCm@jason>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<9024787.LWyaFMVAOZ@jason>
	<CAPweEDxz6GqxtZsSisuaEQ68ZXSnKE8AZ_am7jNsthkv0CMrbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<8650922.5nztI3dOCm@jason>
Message-ID: <CA+kEFNKRZjzhbnMQyoPbZ9f+OduOE0ArjU5obO9H0qZCnY6t4w@mail.gmail.com>

On a serious note.

We're all here because we believe in something. Specifically, the *same*
something.
We're all here because we believe that, together, we can make that
something happen.
More that that, we're here because we believe, if we make that something
happen, we'll make the world a fundamentally better place, in time.\\

To some degree, that's because we know what we're doing, individually, as
people.
To some degree, that's because we've come to share a vision.
To some degree... well, Bruce Springsteen's "Rainmaker" puts it better than
I ever will... or, perhaps, The Eagles' rendition of the old Joe Walsh
classic, "In The City". Some variation of "there's got to be a better way
than *this*" and "You kind of just have to believe in *something*..."

Text is a limited medium. Email is a subset of that medium. Limited
communication leads to easy misunderstandings... leads to, well, the exact
sort of fracas we're all in.

It seems to me that we've got two choices here. We can continue to sit here
going at it like cats in a bag, in which case -- in all likelihood -- the
entire community we've built up rips itself apart and leaves Luke at Square
Zero, at best -- starting over with a cash deficit, missing cards, and very
few if any helpers. I mean, I'll probably stick around, but let's face it,
I'm not exactly much use to anyone, here or otherwise.

We can do that, or we can sit down at the table, crack our knuckles, and
figure out what we next need to do before going on to do it.

Personally, I don't see much merit in the former option, except that it
probably feels pretty good in the moment to most of you. I find nothing but
grim nihilism in the tearing down and ripping apart of what we've all
worked hard to accomplish. Furthermore, we've all done some stuff in the
past that makes us look like knuckledragging mouth-breathers. I'll admit as
much as anyone, I was thirteen once. We've all done dumb shit. I know I
have, want a list? ;)

Heck, when I was first on here, I was convinced that without Windows
support, this was a dead-end nothing project. You know what? The world
moved on, things changed... and that particular outburst aged like fine,
fine milk ;) At least I'm not famous, it'll never be in the history books
next to quips like the guy from IBM claiming a world market of, what, a
half-dozen computers? or Bill Gates claiming that 640K of RAM ought to be
enough for anyone.

We've all Done The Dumb.

Personally, I trust that, when this is all said and done and out the door,
we'll all have accomplished enough to get our fair pats-on-the-back...
monetary or otherwise. But I'm not here because it pays well, and I don't
think any of us are.

I get that Luke feels like he owes Other Chris. I get that most of
ya'll folks out there feel like you're owed something. But when you look
back, communication over the past year or two or three has been somewhere
between minimal and "this is literally a ghost town". There's probably
unmaintained Linux packages on Github with more message traffic than us
over the past year. I get that there are a lot of stepped-on toes and a lot
of hurt feelings. But this isn't how to handle that. Yelling and screaming
and carrying on and all only makes for a good commercial for Trojan
condoms. Nobody really likes it, it isn't good communication -- hell, it
isn't even good behavior, and that's when you're a preschooler! -- and it
sure as hell doesn't get anything accomplished. All it does is make
noise... *destructive* noise, because it drives us all away from each
other, away from our common goal.

I'm not here for that, and I don't think anyone else here is. Not really.

I'll readily admit, further, that I'm a follower and not a leader... but
the leaders I admire lead by example, lead by how they live and act.
Actions speak louder than words, after all.

Luke, like it or not, you've put yourself on point. Everyone else here is
going on like a "who has the loudest siren" contest at the local fire
department. So, Luke, you tell me what you think the next big step is, and
make me a reasonable case for it, and I'll do what of it I can.

The rest of you sit down, shut up, and wait till your damn turn comes
around again. You've had your time and you've done nothing but caterwaul.
Luke has the talking-stick, and then it goes to me.

Let's get this shitshow back on the road.

From laserhawk64 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 00:55:28 2022
From: laserhawk64 at gmail.com (Christopher Havel)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2022 19:55:28 -0500
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CA+kEFNKRZjzhbnMQyoPbZ9f+OduOE0ArjU5obO9H0qZCnY6t4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<9024787.LWyaFMVAOZ@jason>
	<CAPweEDxz6GqxtZsSisuaEQ68ZXSnKE8AZ_am7jNsthkv0CMrbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<8650922.5nztI3dOCm@jason>
	<CA+kEFNKRZjzhbnMQyoPbZ9f+OduOE0ArjU5obO9H0qZCnY6t4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+kEFNL0B3AQo4w6GnOhEax_5b7c1qTs4CWV1po6fgpBdPZnMQ@mail.gmail.com>

Luke, it sounds like, at the very beginning of all of this, you were asking
for someone in the community -- I imagine that there's a good reason it
can't be you, no worries -- to reach out to that fellow Chris in Keene, NH,
either via email or some sort of embedded website contact form somewhere,
to follow up about some EOMA CPU Cards that had been shipped to the fellow,
and he'd promptly clammed up shortly thereafter and has been evading
contact since...?

(Clarity: I'm also a Chris, but not THAT Chris, I live in NC and I don't
have any Cards lol... fine by me, that's well beyond my ability to do
anything but reduce to eWaste!)

I presume you still want someone to do that. Can you provide contact info
for the fellow? I can send a flippin email FFS.

Also, if you have specific phrasing you want me to use, or specific
restrictions on what I need to say or not say, I need to know that
specifically and clearly. I know you tend to be pretty precise and
particular about such things.

Luke has the talking-stick at this point, and when he's done, I'll have it
back. I will be entirely ignoring the rest of you lot. It's a sad day when
I'm just about the only adult in the room, I'm 36 perpetually-going-on-13
lol. But this squabbling is stupid, and the OPPOSITE of productive, and it
needs to end. Ya'll all won't, so I will.

Someone's gotta fukkin do it.

>

From lkcl at lkcl.net  Thu Nov 24 02:06:45 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 02:06:45 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <8650922.5nztI3dOCm@jason>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<9024787.LWyaFMVAOZ@jason>
	<CAPweEDxz6GqxtZsSisuaEQ68ZXSnKE8AZ_am7jNsthkv0CMrbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<8650922.5nztI3dOCm@jason>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDzK+8-8RZpNNWLC0uTWq6V6=3MHoPfX5utPBn_h2zQ_5A@mail.gmail.com>

On Thursday, November 24, 2022, Paul Boddie <paul at boddie.org.uk> wrote:
> On Wednesday, 23 November 2022 23:19:01 CET Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
> wrote:
>>
>> what i am *very* pissed off about and will not tolerate is
>> people assuming that i can and am going to do everything for
>> them. this attitude is completely unacceptable.
>
> Nobody asked you "to do everything for them". But they probably didn't
> appreciate the experience of being offered things and then being told "oh,
> that's your job" along with detailed instructions on how they should be
doing
> it.

i know this reaction. i have it myself, and seen it also
many times.  someone says something, it's repeated, but
the attention to the words is low.  they repeat them,
but nobody takes it seriously, because they are not really
paying attention: the reason being, "the rubber has not hit
the road" quite just yet.

then something happens, such as "delivery deadline" (coming
up, or likely to be missed, or *actually* missed.

at that point the words that were repeated time and time
again, that were not taken seriously, are put in front of
them as a reminder, and all hell breaks loose.



> Well, I am sincerely sorry that this has brought you hardship.

appreciated.  the lesson for me is to put my foot down and
not tolerate that.

> It is not
> merely hindsight in saying that I could see that you were risking burning
> yourself out in the way you were pursuing this effort.

and having components go EOL five times, costing redesigns
each time.  we know it's all in the updates.

if we had USD 1 million+ like the failed Intel Compute Card
the entire thing would have been done years ago.

>> and i'm being told i'm a "scammer" and should deliver what
>> you DEMAND?? fuck off!!
>
> I don't demand anything, really, haven't called you a scammer,

no, you haven't - chuck did.

> nor do I
> believe that you are one, either. But it seems to me that you have spread
> yourself too thin, quite possibly to maximise the appeal of the campaign.

no, i took a risk. the 75 updates explain the rationale and the
journey.

> However, none of that was done at our request.
>
> I will return to remarks about "community" since you brought that up. In a
> community, it doesn't all fall to one person to do everything, but in a
> situation where someone has made themselves the central individual who
decides
> and facilitates everything, it becomes very difficult to distribute the
burden
> because there is no genuine delegation of anything. Why else do you think
> people have been wanting answers from you personally rather than from a
> selection of other people?

because Crowsdsupply provided the means to do so.
i must talk to them about it and redirect to a mailing list
but i refrained from doing that in case people ask confidential
questions that got publicised without their expectations,
or it cost CS engineering time to set up.

> [...]
>
>> above. would you write something publicly that resulted in
>> someone losing their livelihood after they'd given you money
>> to feed yourself and your family for over two years?
>>
>> could you do that to someone?
>>
>> have a look at some of the news coming out of Keene, NH.
>> Chris has been through some pretty rough shit. he doesn't
>> need to be treated any rougher.
>
> I don't follow "the news coming out of Keene, NH",

google "Christopher Waid Keene NH arrest" or
"Chris Waid Keene FBI Raid".

you will need to use archive.org because of geo-blocking.


> but you still seem to be
> advocating for the public shaming of the guy,

it's a known technique that is going to happen whether he
or any of us like it or not. i have warned him enough times
in the 40+ emails he has ignored that if he does not tell
me what the fuck is going on i will have no choice but
to escalate. this still did not get a response so i am
left with no choice but to proceed with the planned update.

> so I might well wonder what the
> real deal is here, because this really doesn't add up at all. Are we
supposed
> to act as your proxies in this matter as well?

no, you are expected to act on your own behalf.
calmly, respectfully (except in Chuck's case),
and bearing in mind that Chris has gone through
hell too recently, and that he did at one point
donate me USD 60,000 over 2+ years.

i can only repeat this so many times before i
simply give up.

> I actually wouldn't mind some answers

you mean, other than the 75 updates and the answers
here already provided?

> about how this situation was able to get
> to this rather unhappy point.

so would i.

but because Chris is ignoring my communications the
only option remaining is for *other people* to
contact him and ask, i can't believe i am repeating
this again, "where are the 93 Computer Cards".


> The money seems to have flowed freely enough,

no, it flowed until it reached the point where taking
further funds would no longer permit product to be manufactured.
at which point i had to urgently find other money.

this is all in the updates, i have repeated this enough
times that i am really quite concerned: have you been
reading them *at all*?

> and yet the only recourse being suggested appears to be a form of mob
justice,

yyep. it is a known technique.  i have been very systematic
over the past 18+ months, slowly escalating.  it should
be obvious due to the context why i kept matters private,
because if he responded "omg omg i'm so sorry, get someone
to pick up the Cards so Joshua can take over testing", nobody
would need to know that he systematically ignored 40 emails,
3 phone calls, and at least 8 support tickets, from at least
15 people including the CEO of Crowdsupply.

you absolutely don't take these kinds of decisions lightly.
they are getting on for "last resort", but after 18+ months
we are at the last resort stage, after exhausting all other
"less distasteful" means.


> despite the involvement of numerous commercial entities. I can hardly find
> that credible at all. In fact, I find it all rather distasteful.

yyep.

but he should not have lied to me, nor embezzled 0.8 BTC.
he made a committment to test the Cards, and to ship them
out.  i transferred the donated 0.8 BTC worth 40,000 at the time
specifically to him, to do exactly that.

and he has not responded since Bob tested one Card.

i have tried private shaming, he has not responded.

i have tried Crowdsupply contacting him, he has not responded.

i have tried asking backers to contact him, he has not responded.

on this list right now, people have attempted to contact him,
he has censored the messages and not responded.


public shaming is the step before the absolute last resort,
the one that costs money (which we do not have)

if you have better realistic ideas (not involving "get Mouser
Lawyers" or "Get Warren to call him") that do not involve
me spending time or money i am open to hearing them.

l.


-- 
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

From lkcl at lkcl.net  Thu Nov 24 04:34:21 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 04:34:21 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CAPweEDzK+8-8RZpNNWLC0uTWq6V6=3MHoPfX5utPBn_h2zQ_5A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<9024787.LWyaFMVAOZ@jason>
	<CAPweEDxz6GqxtZsSisuaEQ68ZXSnKE8AZ_am7jNsthkv0CMrbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<8650922.5nztI3dOCm@jason>
	<CAPweEDzK+8-8RZpNNWLC0uTWq6V6=3MHoPfX5utPBn_h2zQ_5A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDydUjU2jFu_9KbzRX2RNq2gpjdpV0GdwX21usuDVsVsSQ@mail.gmail.com>

https://www.theverge.com/22599932/bitcoin-raid-keene-new-hampshire-ian-freeman-libertarian-prosecution


From charlesrcard at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 24 10:05:46 2022
From: charlesrcard at yahoo.com (Chuck Card)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 10:05:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CAPweEDydUjU2jFu_9KbzRX2RNq2gpjdpV0GdwX21usuDVsVsSQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<9024787.LWyaFMVAOZ@jason>
	<CAPweEDxz6GqxtZsSisuaEQ68ZXSnKE8AZ_am7jNsthkv0CMrbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<8650922.5nztI3dOCm@jason>
	<CAPweEDzK+8-8RZpNNWLC0uTWq6V6=3MHoPfX5utPBn_h2zQ_5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDydUjU2jFu_9KbzRX2RNq2gpjdpV0GdwX21usuDVsVsSQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <513176322.3558674.1669284346670@mail.yahoo.com>

 Luke I made no demands merely pointed out that I have been scammed out of 1000.00 by Crowd Supply.
Now how the fuck do I get off of this mailing list. I'm tired of the constant reminder of how I got fucked out of 1000.00. So that I can move on.    On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 11:34:57 PM EST, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl at lkcl.net> wrote:  
 
 https://www.theverge.com/22599932/bitcoin-raid-keene-new-hampshire-ian-freeman-libertarian-prosecution

_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook at lists.phcomp.co.uk
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send large attachments to arm-netbook at files.phcomp.co.uk  

From lkcl at lkcl.net  Thu Nov 24 12:52:33 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 12:52:33 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <513176322.3558674.1669284346670@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<9024787.LWyaFMVAOZ@jason>
	<CAPweEDxz6GqxtZsSisuaEQ68ZXSnKE8AZ_am7jNsthkv0CMrbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<8650922.5nztI3dOCm@jason>
	<CAPweEDzK+8-8RZpNNWLC0uTWq6V6=3MHoPfX5utPBn_h2zQ_5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDydUjU2jFu_9KbzRX2RNq2gpjdpV0GdwX21usuDVsVsSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<513176322.3558674.1669284346670@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDwss9JpdvJuudpp0Zz1r7zmvx=ihaY+q692g0noW3ExMg@mail.gmail.com>

---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 10:06 AM Chuck Card via arm-netbook
<arm-netbook at lists.phcomp.co.uk> wrote:
>
>  Luke I made no demands merely pointed out that
>I have been scammed out of 1000.00 by Crowd Supply.

chuck: i reallly don't care how you deceive yourself.
it was and always will be your responsibility,

> Now how the fuck do I get off of this mailing list.

you take action yourself. you find out for yourself.
that is your responsibilty.  don't expect me to
answer you or spoon-feed you: if you can't think
and act for yourself i don't give a fuck what you
do or think.

> I'm tired of the constant reminder of how I got fucked
> out of 1000.00.

i'm not interested in your excuses to blame and fail to
help and take action.

you can scream and shout as much as you like and i will
not care, help, or take any action.

sort it out yourself: learn how to unsubscribe from a
standard mailing list yourself. don't expect me to do anything
further for you.

l.


From hendrik at topoi.pooq.com  Thu Nov 24 12:53:52 2022
From: hendrik at topoi.pooq.com (Hendrik Boom)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 07:53:52 -0500
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CAPweEDxoAN+Fxy4+VhzKp7tYNEmA5EXMHhpCRkV+HDA=hjmwgw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAPweEDzg3zvpAjtjtxsq9oq0OpP9j9Fyg4vzQqbYGCEWzesang@mail.gmail.com>
	<4337270.zu7JEnyKaF@jason>
	<CAPweEDxzBPDqnMxB4c+A7Z4yAhdrg4w0H=HvfVO_BQQX3s2A7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20221122121039.GC2071@topoi.pooq.com>
	<CAPweEDxoAN+Fxy4+VhzKp7tYNEmA5EXMHhpCRkV+HDA=hjmwgw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20221124125352.GB2996@topoi.pooq.com>

On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 01:08:49PM +0000, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 12:11 PM Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com> wrote:
> 
> > This whole conversation is making me wonder if Chris is still alive.
> 
> this was my very first thought.  we did some research, and found
> that there is _some_ empirical evidence which _might_ support
> the hypothesis that he is alive (and free), in the form of these podcasts:
> 
>    https://www.freedomdecrypted.com/
> 
> however on reflection, i realise (only now) that, actually:
> 
> 1) they could be pre-recorded at a far earlier date than publication
> 2) they could have been pre-recorded at a completely different location
>     (such as a correctional facility).
> 
> in other words we have no actual direct evidence that, at this precise
> and exact time, that Chris is living and operating his business from his
> premises (which is also his home) in Keene, NH.

Is there anyone that lives close enough to there that they could go and actually visit him to ask politely where the cards are?

Or perhaps offer to arrange transportation to Joshua?

-- hendrik

> 
> an actual study - by listening to the podcasts - to check for new
> events - would establish whether the podcasts are live, delayed by one
> day, delayed by one week, or a month, or posthumous.
> 
> l.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook at lists.phcomp.co.uk
> http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
> Send large attachments to arm-netbook at files.phcomp.co.uk


From franck at sinimale.fr  Thu Nov 24 13:03:49 2022
From: franck at sinimale.fr (=?UTF-8?Q?Franck_Sinimal=c3=a9?=)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 14:03:49 +0100
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <20221124125352.GB2996@topoi.pooq.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAPweEDzg3zvpAjtjtxsq9oq0OpP9j9Fyg4vzQqbYGCEWzesang@mail.gmail.com>
	<4337270.zu7JEnyKaF@jason>
	<CAPweEDxzBPDqnMxB4c+A7Z4yAhdrg4w0H=HvfVO_BQQX3s2A7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20221122121039.GC2071@topoi.pooq.com>
	<CAPweEDxoAN+Fxy4+VhzKp7tYNEmA5EXMHhpCRkV+HDA=hjmwgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<20221124125352.GB2996@topoi.pooq.com>
Message-ID: <7903b308-025a-033e-91e6-b4e8b7cb88a2@sinimale.fr>

-- traduit par systran.net --

Hello,

SorryformypoorEnglish...andthankyouallforkeepingthisconversationfocusedonthebestpossible.

+1foryouridea,Hendrick,ifthatcanmakelifeeasierforChris.

FromwhereIam,thisishowIimagineIcanhelp:
-WhenIregisterforaprojectfundedinaparticipatoryway,Itakealotoftimetothink,document,reflect,document,etc.,andIwait,Iwaittofeelabletobeunconditionallysupportiveofthisprojectbeforecommittingmyself.
-FromwhatIunderstandofthecurrentsituationoftheproject,IthinkIhavetowaitforLuketopostanupdateoncrowdsupply.com(ormaybeonrhombus-tech.net?)toindicatetothebackers/thecommunityalistofsimpleandconcreteactionstohelpthisprojectmoveforward.Isthatright?Itwouldhelpme;)

I'llstaytuned.
Goodlucktoall,
Franck

-- original en français --

Bonjour,

Désolé pour mon faible niveau en anglais... et merci à tous pour tenir 
tous ces échanges orientés vers le meilleur des possibles.

+1 pour ton idée Hendrick, si cela peux rendre la vie plus simple à Chris.

De là où j'en suis, voilà comment j'imagine que je peux aider :
- Quand je m'inscris dans un projet financé de façon participative, je 
prends beaucoup de temps pour réfléchir, me documenter, réfléchir, me 
documenter, etc, et j'attends, j'attends de me sentir capable d'être 
inconditionnellement solidaire dudit projet avant de m'engager.
- De ce que je crois comprendre de la situation actuelle du projet, je 
crois qu'il faut que j'attende que Luke poste un update sur 
crowdsupply.com (ou peut-être sur rhombus-tech.net?) pour indiquer aux 
backers / à la communauté une liste d'actions simples et concrètes pour 
aider ce projet à avancer. C'est bien cela ? Moi ça m'aiderait ;)

Je reste à l'écoute.
Bonne chance à tous,
Franck


Le 24/11/2022 à 13:53, Hendrik Boom a écrit :
> On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 01:08:49PM +0000, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
>> On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 12:11 PM Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com> wrote:
>>
>>> This whole conversation is making me wonder if Chris is still alive.
>> this was my very first thought.  we did some research, and found
>> that there is _some_ empirical evidence which _might_ support
>> the hypothesis that he is alive (and free), in the form of these podcasts:
>>
>>     https://www.freedomdecrypted.com/
>>
>> however on reflection, i realise (only now) that, actually:
>>
>> 1) they could be pre-recorded at a far earlier date than publication
>> 2) they could have been pre-recorded at a completely different location
>>      (such as a correctional facility).
>>
>> in other words we have no actual direct evidence that, at this precise
>> and exact time, that Chris is living and operating his business from his
>> premises (which is also his home) in Keene, NH.
> Is there anyone that lives close enough to there that they could go and actually visit him to ask politely where the cards are?
>
> Or perhaps offer to arrange transportation to Joshua?
>
> -- hendrik
>
>> an actual study - by listening to the podcasts - to check for new
>> events - would establish whether the podcasts are live, delayed by one
>> day, delayed by one week, or a month, or posthumous.
>>
>> l.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook at lists.phcomp.co.uk
>> http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
>> Send large attachments to arm-netbook at files.phcomp.co.uk
> _______________________________________________
> arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook at lists.phcomp.co.uk
> http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
> Send large attachments to arm-netbook at files.phcomp.co.uk


From lkcl at lkcl.net  Thu Nov 24 13:04:30 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 13:04:30 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <20221124125352.GB2996@topoi.pooq.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAPweEDzg3zvpAjtjtxsq9oq0OpP9j9Fyg4vzQqbYGCEWzesang@mail.gmail.com>
	<4337270.zu7JEnyKaF@jason>
	<CAPweEDxzBPDqnMxB4c+A7Z4yAhdrg4w0H=HvfVO_BQQX3s2A7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20221122121039.GC2071@topoi.pooq.com>
	<CAPweEDxoAN+Fxy4+VhzKp7tYNEmA5EXMHhpCRkV+HDA=hjmwgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<20221124125352.GB2996@topoi.pooq.com>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDzdnUr8G7eebMx+JRGDO0pEjAdCGbbeq4M+W6VNd8HxFw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 12:54 PM Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com> wrote:

> Is there anyone that lives close enough to there that they could
> go and actually visit him to ask politely where the cards are?

i have in fact asked *another* person that very question.
since asking them, they have also failed to respond and
are now also unresponsive to further polite and reasonable
follow-up prompting.

basically there's something that's happened (or happening)
that when people find out they either become extremely frightened
or so concerned that they no longer wish to get involved.

this would tend to support a tentative hypothesis that some
event occurred involving the FBI or other Law Enforcement
Agency, who may have conducted a raid, and stolen items
including the Cards, where Chris does not wish to publicise
that fact.  that's my current working hypothesis.

> Or perhaps offer to arrange transportation to Joshua?

i am giving serious consideration to just booking a DHL Courier
to turn up at the door, and find out that way.

l.


From lkcl at lkcl.net  Thu Nov 24 13:09:16 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 13:09:16 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <7903b308-025a-033e-91e6-b4e8b7cb88a2@sinimale.fr>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAPweEDzg3zvpAjtjtxsq9oq0OpP9j9Fyg4vzQqbYGCEWzesang@mail.gmail.com>
	<4337270.zu7JEnyKaF@jason>
	<CAPweEDxzBPDqnMxB4c+A7Z4yAhdrg4w0H=HvfVO_BQQX3s2A7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20221122121039.GC2071@topoi.pooq.com>
	<CAPweEDxoAN+Fxy4+VhzKp7tYNEmA5EXMHhpCRkV+HDA=hjmwgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<20221124125352.GB2996@topoi.pooq.com>
	<7903b308-025a-033e-91e6-b4e8b7cb88a2@sinimale.fr>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDzvCiLrt8HwzMzH=8djQcMnJOkBf948bWj7e1Kn9Qq6RQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 1:04 PM Franck Sinimalé <franck at sinimale.fr> wrote:

> - De ce que je crois comprendre de la situation actuelle du projet, je
> crois qu'il faut que j'attende que Luke poste un update sur
> crowdsupply.com

ici on explict avant. lorsque on peut fait quelquechose avant ca.

> (ou peut-être sur rhombus-tech.net?) pour indiquer aux
> backers / à la communauté une liste d'actions simples et concrètes pour
> aider ce projet à avancer. C'est bien cela ? Moi ça m'aiderait ;)

c'est incroyable simple: ecrit a Chris et pose cette question:
"where are the 93 Computer Cards?" et dis-nous la reponse.

ca c'est tout.  j'ai dit cinque ou sept fois.  c'est pas differente
chaque fois.  c'est tout la meme, chaque fois.

l.


From hendrik at topoi.pooq.com  Thu Nov 24 13:40:55 2022
From: hendrik at topoi.pooq.com (Hendrik Boom)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 08:40:55 -0500
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Getting off mailing list
In-Reply-To: <513176322.3558674.1669284346670@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<9024787.LWyaFMVAOZ@jason>
	<CAPweEDxz6GqxtZsSisuaEQ68ZXSnKE8AZ_am7jNsthkv0CMrbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<8650922.5nztI3dOCm@jason>
	<CAPweEDzK+8-8RZpNNWLC0uTWq6V6=3MHoPfX5utPBn_h2zQ_5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDydUjU2jFu_9KbzRX2RNq2gpjdpV0GdwX21usuDVsVsSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<513176322.3558674.1669284346670@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20221124134055.GC2996@topoi.pooq.com>

On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 10:05:46AM +0000, Chuck Card via arm-netbook wrote:
>  Luke I made no demands merely pointed out that I have been scammed out of 1000.00 by Crowd Supply.
> Now how the fuck do I get off of this mailing list.

At the bottom of each mailing list message, there is a link to a website:

http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook

If you go to that website, you will find unsubscribe instructions near the botto of that page.

-- hendrik

> I'm tired of the constant reminder of how I got fucked out of 1000.00. So that I can move on.    On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 11:34:57 PM EST, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl at lkcl.net> wrote:  
>  
>  https://www.theverge.com/22599932/bitcoin-raid-keene-new-hampshire-ian-freeman-libertarian-prosecution
> 
> _______________________________________________
> arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook at lists.phcomp.co.uk
> http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
> Send large attachments to arm-netbook at files.phcomp.co.uk  
> _______________________________________________
> arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook at lists.phcomp.co.uk
> http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
> Send large attachments to arm-netbook at files.phcomp.co.uk


From lkcl at lkcl.net  Thu Nov 24 13:59:46 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 13:59:46 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Getting off mailing list
In-Reply-To: <20221124134055.GC2996@topoi.pooq.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<9024787.LWyaFMVAOZ@jason>
	<CAPweEDxz6GqxtZsSisuaEQ68ZXSnKE8AZ_am7jNsthkv0CMrbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<8650922.5nztI3dOCm@jason>
	<CAPweEDzK+8-8RZpNNWLC0uTWq6V6=3MHoPfX5utPBn_h2zQ_5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDydUjU2jFu_9KbzRX2RNq2gpjdpV0GdwX21usuDVsVsSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<513176322.3558674.1669284346670@mail.yahoo.com>
	<20221124134055.GC2996@topoi.pooq.com>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDx=pQk4m8EbKkj-A9zMc-+kzkbKiz_k3utimH5aUMKYaQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thursday, November 24, 2022, Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com> wrote:

> At the bottom of each mailing list message, there is a link to a website:
>
> http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
>
> If you go to that website, you will find unsubscribe instructions near
the botto of that page.

thank you for explaining it, Hendrik. Chuck is clearly
so distressed he hasn't noticed that every message has
that note, but it doesn't say what it is for.
i will add a extra line to it.

l.



-- 
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

From franck at sinimale.fr  Thu Nov 24 14:12:07 2022
From: franck at sinimale.fr (=?UTF-8?Q?Franck_Sinimal=c3=a9?=)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 15:12:07 +0100
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CAPweEDzvCiLrt8HwzMzH=8djQcMnJOkBf948bWj7e1Kn9Qq6RQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAPweEDzg3zvpAjtjtxsq9oq0OpP9j9Fyg4vzQqbYGCEWzesang@mail.gmail.com>
	<4337270.zu7JEnyKaF@jason>
	<CAPweEDxzBPDqnMxB4c+A7Z4yAhdrg4w0H=HvfVO_BQQX3s2A7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20221122121039.GC2071@topoi.pooq.com>
	<CAPweEDxoAN+Fxy4+VhzKp7tYNEmA5EXMHhpCRkV+HDA=hjmwgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<20221124125352.GB2996@topoi.pooq.com>
	<7903b308-025a-033e-91e6-b4e8b7cb88a2@sinimale.fr>
	<CAPweEDzvCiLrt8HwzMzH=8djQcMnJOkBf948bWj7e1Kn9Qq6RQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ca495495-f911-e77d-0b73-fd646576fa02@sinimale.fr>

Le 24/11/2022 à 14:09, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton a écrit :
> On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 1:04 PM Franck Sinimalé <franck at sinimale.fr> wrote:
>
>> - De ce que je crois comprendre de la situation actuelle du projet, je
>> crois qu'il faut que j'attende que Luke poste un update sur
>> crowdsupply.com
> ici on explict avant. lorsque on peut fait quelquechose avant ca.
>
>> (ou peut-être sur rhombus-tech.net?) pour indiquer aux
>> backers / à la communauté une liste d'actions simples et concrètes pour
>> aider ce projet à avancer. C'est bien cela ? Moi ça m'aiderait ;)
> c'est incroyable simple: ecrit a Chris et pose cette question:
> "where are the 93 Computer Cards?" et dis-nous la reponse.
>
> ca c'est tout.  j'ai dit cinque ou sept fois.  c'est pas differente
> chaque fois.  c'est tout la meme, chaque fois.
>
> l.
Ok, thank you Luke for your tireless response. I looked for in vain, can 
you tell us (again) how to reach (mail or social network) Chris please ? 
Or where to find such way to reach him.


From laserhawk64 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 14:36:43 2022
From: laserhawk64 at gmail.com (Christopher Havel)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 09:36:43 -0500
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <ca495495-f911-e77d-0b73-fd646576fa02@sinimale.fr>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAPweEDzg3zvpAjtjtxsq9oq0OpP9j9Fyg4vzQqbYGCEWzesang@mail.gmail.com>
	<4337270.zu7JEnyKaF@jason>
	<CAPweEDxzBPDqnMxB4c+A7Z4yAhdrg4w0H=HvfVO_BQQX3s2A7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20221122121039.GC2071@topoi.pooq.com>
	<CAPweEDxoAN+Fxy4+VhzKp7tYNEmA5EXMHhpCRkV+HDA=hjmwgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<20221124125352.GB2996@topoi.pooq.com>
	<7903b308-025a-033e-91e6-b4e8b7cb88a2@sinimale.fr>
	<CAPweEDzvCiLrt8HwzMzH=8djQcMnJOkBf948bWj7e1Kn9Qq6RQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<ca495495-f911-e77d-0b73-fd646576fa02@sinimale.fr>
Message-ID: <CA+kEFNK6Q1fTWU_PB11bTXkGm9ehuj+B3QvvQgE5WRPrWC9gyg@mail.gmail.com>

>
> > On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 1:04 PM Franck Sinimalé <franck at sinimale.fr>
> wrote:
>
> Ok, thank you Luke for your tireless response. I looked for in vain, can
> you tell us (again) how to reach (mail or social network) Chris please ?
> Or where to find such way to reach him.
>

His email address and the required GPG key are at
https://www.thinkpenguin.com/about. I'm currently futzing my way through
making Mailvelope work -- or, well, trying to -- so that I can make it
behave well enough with my GMail account to send just the one email (I
hope). It's... not going well. I'm not used to this sort of stuff lol

I'm sure you'll be amused to know, however, that I'm looking to migrate as
much away from Google as I can, I've been researching Chinese-market
smartphones so that I can find one without Google Integration (Play Store /
Chrome for Mobile / Google Search bar / etc) and I'll probably switch to
GMX for email and Firefox for the browser. It's a long, slow, painful
learning process for me -- I'm used to the "if you don't have anything
worth hiding..." paradigm of security, and I know that isn't good enough
for you guys but it's served me well.

But, hey, let's see if I can get this one blinkin' thing to work, ey? LOL.

From richard.wilbur at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 14:39:27 2022
From: richard.wilbur at gmail.com (Richard Wilbur)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 07:39:27 -0700
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CAPweEDydUjU2jFu_9KbzRX2RNq2gpjdpV0GdwX21usuDVsVsSQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPweEDydUjU2jFu_9KbzRX2RNq2gpjdpV0GdwX21usuDVsVsSQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <01D1754B-55F2-4F9F-8944-6E2F33539357@gmail.com>

On Nov 23, 2022, at 21:34, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl at lkcl.net> wrote:
> 
> https://www.theverge.com/22599932/bitcoin-raid-keene-new-hampshire-ian-freeman-libertarian-prosecution

Thanks for the link.

Looks like a messy situation but I didn’t see any indication that Mr. Waid was arrested or prosecuted.  I get that bad things happened to some of his friends but how does that affect his ability to test EOMA processor cards or communicate via E-mail or telephone?

From franck at sinimale.fr  Thu Nov 24 15:24:48 2022
From: franck at sinimale.fr (=?UTF-8?Q?Franck_Sinimal=c3=a9?=)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 16:24:48 +0100
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CA+kEFNK6Q1fTWU_PB11bTXkGm9ehuj+B3QvvQgE5WRPrWC9gyg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAPweEDzg3zvpAjtjtxsq9oq0OpP9j9Fyg4vzQqbYGCEWzesang@mail.gmail.com>
	<4337270.zu7JEnyKaF@jason>
	<CAPweEDxzBPDqnMxB4c+A7Z4yAhdrg4w0H=HvfVO_BQQX3s2A7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20221122121039.GC2071@topoi.pooq.com>
	<CAPweEDxoAN+Fxy4+VhzKp7tYNEmA5EXMHhpCRkV+HDA=hjmwgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<20221124125352.GB2996@topoi.pooq.com>
	<7903b308-025a-033e-91e6-b4e8b7cb88a2@sinimale.fr>
	<CAPweEDzvCiLrt8HwzMzH=8djQcMnJOkBf948bWj7e1Kn9Qq6RQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<ca495495-f911-e77d-0b73-fd646576fa02@sinimale.fr>
	<CA+kEFNK6Q1fTWU_PB11bTXkGm9ehuj+B3QvvQgE5WRPrWC9gyg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f83f21ec-52d9-5ce9-ea4e-82c50ab36384@sinimale.fr>

Le 24/11/2022 à 15:36, Christopher Havel a écrit :
>>> On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 1:04 PM Franck Sinimalé<franck at sinimale.fr>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Ok, thank you Luke for your tireless response. I looked for in vain, can
>> you tell us (again) how to reach (mail or social network) Chris please ?
>> Or where to find such way to reach him.
>>
> His email address and the required GPG key are at
> https://www.thinkpenguin.com/about. I'm currently futzing my way through
> making Mailvelope work -- or, well, trying to -- so that I can make it
> behave well enough with my GMail account to send just the one email (I
> hope). It's... not going well. I'm not used to this sort of stuff lol
>
> I'm sure you'll be amused to know, however, that I'm looking to migrate as
> much away from Google as I can, I've been researching Chinese-market
> smartphones so that I can find one without Google Integration (Play Store /
> Chrome for Mobile / Google Search bar / etc) and I'll probably switch to
> GMX for email and Firefox for the browser. It's a long, slow, painful
> learning process for me -- I'm used to the "if you don't have anything
> worth hiding..." paradigm of security, and I know that isn't good enough
> for you guys but it's served me well.
>
> But, hey, let's see if I can get this one blinkin' thing to work, ey? LOL.

Many thank's Christopher. Mail sent. Under Debian I use Thunderbird that 
come with OpenPGP. Times ago I had used Mailvelope in Firefox, worked 
fine. Well, now waiting for a reply, I'll let know hear if any.

Bye.



From laserhawk64 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 15:29:38 2022
From: laserhawk64 at gmail.com (Christopher Havel)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 10:29:38 -0500
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <f83f21ec-52d9-5ce9-ea4e-82c50ab36384@sinimale.fr>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAPweEDzg3zvpAjtjtxsq9oq0OpP9j9Fyg4vzQqbYGCEWzesang@mail.gmail.com>
	<4337270.zu7JEnyKaF@jason>
	<CAPweEDxzBPDqnMxB4c+A7Z4yAhdrg4w0H=HvfVO_BQQX3s2A7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20221122121039.GC2071@topoi.pooq.com>
	<CAPweEDxoAN+Fxy4+VhzKp7tYNEmA5EXMHhpCRkV+HDA=hjmwgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<20221124125352.GB2996@topoi.pooq.com>
	<7903b308-025a-033e-91e6-b4e8b7cb88a2@sinimale.fr>
	<CAPweEDzvCiLrt8HwzMzH=8djQcMnJOkBf948bWj7e1Kn9Qq6RQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<ca495495-f911-e77d-0b73-fd646576fa02@sinimale.fr>
	<CA+kEFNK6Q1fTWU_PB11bTXkGm9ehuj+B3QvvQgE5WRPrWC9gyg@mail.gmail.com>
	<f83f21ec-52d9-5ce9-ea4e-82c50ab36384@sinimale.fr>
Message-ID: <CA+kEFN+ArPfbXoLbxzq7ENpWRz5Jed2egwbfFN3-5kmC_kbeXA@mail.gmail.com>

I have JUST managed to send mine as well.

I'd appreciate it if someone'd poke me in a reasonable length of time, to
see if I've had a response. I have a lot going on and my ADD memory just
does not do well with such things, any attempt on my end will in all
likelihood end up falling off the edge of the earth without even so much as
a single step...

After all, *one* kerfluffle like this is more than enough! (Just one man's
opinion lol)

I have to say, though -- if it'd been this hard to send a simple friggin
email back in 1994, I think we would've all collectively told Tim
Berners-Lee *precisely* where he could put that newfangled dag blame
"Internet" thing of his! I'm quite thankful that, even with the tech of the
day, it was easier then, at least on the user-side of things...

On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 10:25 AM Franck Sinimalé <franck at sinimale.fr> wrote:

> Le 24/11/2022 à 15:36, Christopher Havel a écrit :
> >>> On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 1:04 PM Franck Sinimalé<franck at sinimale.fr>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Ok, thank you Luke for your tireless response. I looked for in vain, can
> >> you tell us (again) how to reach (mail or social network) Chris please ?
> >> Or where to find such way to reach him.
> >>
> > His email address and the required GPG key are at
> > https://www.thinkpenguin.com/about. I'm currently futzing my way through
> > making Mailvelope work -- or, well, trying to -- so that I can make it
> > behave well enough with my GMail account to send just the one email (I
> > hope). It's... not going well. I'm not used to this sort of stuff lol
> >
> > I'm sure you'll be amused to know, however, that I'm looking to migrate
> as
> > much away from Google as I can, I've been researching Chinese-market
> > smartphones so that I can find one without Google Integration (Play
> Store /
> > Chrome for Mobile / Google Search bar / etc) and I'll probably switch to
> > GMX for email and Firefox for the browser. It's a long, slow, painful
> > learning process for me -- I'm used to the "if you don't have anything
> > worth hiding..." paradigm of security, and I know that isn't good enough
> > for you guys but it's served me well.
> >
> > But, hey, let's see if I can get this one blinkin' thing to work, ey?
> LOL.
>
> Many thank's Christopher. Mail sent. Under Debian I use Thunderbird that
> come with OpenPGP. Times ago I had used Mailvelope in Firefox, worked
> fine. Well, now waiting for a reply, I'll let know hear if any.
>
> Bye.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook at lists.phcomp.co.uk
> http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
> Send large attachments to arm-netbook at files.phcomp.co.uk

From giovanni.lostumbo at gmail.com  Thu Nov 24 16:04:22 2022
From: giovanni.lostumbo at gmail.com (Giovanni Lostumbo)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 10:04:22 -0600
Subject: [Arm-netbook] EOMA68 and 2021 podcast referencing the matter
Message-ID: <CAGSYXA7+uSba_1oehmKqE-y6rXfJszNjcVTyPVbzYr-41cNObg@mail.gmail.com>

Open Source Voices is a great podcast. I've listened to Lukes, Maddog
Halls' and Chris's interviews. Still getting around to listening to more.

I listened to this whole podcast yesterday. 1:10:00-1:20:00 worth a listen
(even before that) (it mentions EOMA68): https://www.opensourcevoices.org/13
4/6/2021 I think it might help explain why some are wondering- some view
Crowdfunding as a donation for R&D, not as a purchase. I'm not here to side
with a view, but I just wanted to help witth this info in case some were
trying to figure out if anyone feels entitled to a product- whether it is
binding or not. etc is not something I'm privy to, but seems explained in
previous messages. When someone makes a public statement on a podcast, It's
not unreasonable to believe that they are stating what they actually
believe, and may act that way.

Happy Thanksgiving!

-G

From paul at boddie.org.uk  Thu Nov 24 17:04:22 2022
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 18:04:22 +0100
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CA+kEFNL0B3AQo4w6GnOhEax_5b7c1qTs4CWV1po6fgpBdPZnMQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+kEFNKRZjzhbnMQyoPbZ9f+OduOE0ArjU5obO9H0qZCnY6t4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+kEFNL0B3AQo4w6GnOhEax_5b7c1qTs4CWV1po6fgpBdPZnMQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2320531.U8o2UFpHUe@jason>

On Thursday, 24 November 2022 01:55:28 CET Christopher Havel wrote:
> 
> Luke has the talking-stick at this point, and when he's done, I'll have it
> back. I will be entirely ignoring the rest of you lot. It's a sad day when
> I'm just about the only adult in the room,

I find this insulting and condescending. I only initiated this thread to ask 
for some kind of indication of progress, given that there has been no news for 
almost two years. I know that some people have given up on this project 
entirely and are resigned to the idea that they put up non-trivial amounts of 
money and will have nothing to show for it. Few people contributing to this 
effort will be so "loaded" that they will not miss that money.

I also find Luke's assertions that I have not read his updates insulting and 
condescending. While I do not have the details of all of them at the front of 
my mind for instant analysis, I have read every last one of them, right up to 
the point where they ceased and left everyone wondering what was going on. I 
have always tried to encourage further progress in this project, even during 
the period when nothing was evidently happening.

And here, the point I made about a lack of communication is entirely 
pertinent. If you want to see what happens when a crowdfunding campaign 
"succeeds" and then the updates stop coming, take a look at this one:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/roundcube-next--2#/

Some of you may even recognise a name or two amongst those involved. While the 
money in that campaign may have effectively evaporated for all we know, which 
is not the case here, just look at the updates to see what the effect is when 
the campaign initiators cease to engage. Are those people not being adults 
either?

I understand the sentiment that having no news to report would make any 
campaign update rather lacking in substance, but then I have to ask what was 
stopping anyone issuing updates saying that Luke was still waiting to hear 
from Chris? There is a middle ground between saying nothing and screaming 
allegations of criminality at someone: a periodic reminder that no 
communication has been received would have been enough to communicate the 
state of the effort.

But had such updates been issued, I understand that it would have given a 
negative impression of the project status. And such negative impressions would 
tarnish the crowdfunding platform, suggesting that not all is well, that maybe 
there are widespread problems with project completion on the platform. So, 
everyone was left with the impression that one of the creators was merely busy 
doing what the other had asked him to do.

People might expect to read angry messages on platforms such as Kickstarter 
and Indiegogo about a failed campaign, as new projects are promoted underneath 
with their funding levels ticking upwards: the unhappy customers ejected via 
the back door as new punters are welcomed in via the front door. But Crowd 
Supply is supposed to be better than that. Certainly, the emergence of 
corporate-sponsored campaigns from the likes of AMD and Microchip seems to 
indicate a level of confidence in the platform.

Then again, those corporations might actually be the ones providing the 
guarantee that the people involved are able to complete their projects, that 
one of them won't be advocating vigilante justice (but not too severe, of 
course) against the other, or anything similarly absurd. I presume that Crowd 
Supply's vision is that when people click on "Back This Project", they expect 
it to be rather more like "Place Your Order" than a ticket into some kind of 
unhinged participative theatre performance.

Paul




From lkcl at lkcl.net  Thu Nov 24 17:53:03 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 17:53:03 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] EOMA68 and 2021 podcast referencing the matter
In-Reply-To: <CAGSYXA7+uSba_1oehmKqE-y6rXfJszNjcVTyPVbzYr-41cNObg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGSYXA7+uSba_1oehmKqE-y6rXfJszNjcVTyPVbzYr-41cNObg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDxOtZvahuW=DrA_Ne8CF7AHbqa41DudWAcA8LOvTTLkiQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thursday, November 24, 2022, Giovanni Lostumbo <
giovanni.lostumbo at gmail.com> wrote:
> Open Source Voices is a great podcast. I've listened to Lukes, Maddog
> Halls' and Chris's interviews. Still getting around to listening to more.

they're fascinating aren't they.

> I listened to this whole podcast yesterday. 1:10:00-1:20:00 worth a listen
> (even before that) (it mentions EOMA68):
https://www.opensourcevoices.org/13
> 4/6/2021 I think it might help explain why some are wondering- some view
> Crowdfunding as a donation for R&D, not as a purchase.

yes.  it's most emphatically *NOT* a "purchase". there is
no contract of sale, and it is down to everyone to make
their own Risk Assessment and perform the prerequisite
Due Diligence, which is why on every single page there is
a "Risks and Challenges" section.

it is why the cries "but it's all down to you, i paid you money,
get me my items i paid for, dumbass" fall on deaf ears.

both of these things comes as a shock to people who, as i said
earlier, read the words, but in their mind they went "yeah yeah
yawn yawn" and clicked what in *their mind* was an "Amazon Buy
Button".

l.




-- 
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

From lkcl at lkcl.net  Thu Nov 24 18:23:07 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 18:23:07 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <ca495495-f911-e77d-0b73-fd646576fa02@sinimale.fr>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1848306.2BU5MnVF1s@jason>
	<CAPweEDzg3zvpAjtjtxsq9oq0OpP9j9Fyg4vzQqbYGCEWzesang@mail.gmail.com>
	<4337270.zu7JEnyKaF@jason>
	<CAPweEDxzBPDqnMxB4c+A7Z4yAhdrg4w0H=HvfVO_BQQX3s2A7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<20221122121039.GC2071@topoi.pooq.com>
	<CAPweEDxoAN+Fxy4+VhzKp7tYNEmA5EXMHhpCRkV+HDA=hjmwgw@mail.gmail.com>
	<20221124125352.GB2996@topoi.pooq.com>
	<7903b308-025a-033e-91e6-b4e8b7cb88a2@sinimale.fr>
	<CAPweEDzvCiLrt8HwzMzH=8djQcMnJOkBf948bWj7e1Kn9Qq6RQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<ca495495-f911-e77d-0b73-fd646576fa02@sinimale.fr>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDwrsdwv7=LpJPR8smD+PMX8QXSUf7qHP=hJ9-BC_m9y+Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Thursday, November 24, 2022, Franck Sinimalé <franck at sinimale.fr> wrote:
> Le 24/11/2022 à 14:09, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton a écrit :
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 1:04 PM Franck Sinimalé <franck at sinimale.fr>
wrote:
>>
>>> - De ce que je crois comprendre de la situation actuelle du projet, je
>>> crois qu'il faut que j'attende que Luke poste un update sur
>>> crowdsupply.com
>>
>> ici on explict avant. lorsque on peut fait quelquechose avant ca.
>>
>>> (ou peut-être sur rhombus-tech.net?) pour indiquer aux
>>> backers / à la communauté une liste d'actions simples et concrètes pour
>>> aider ce projet à avancer. C'est bien cela ? Moi ça m'aiderait ;)
>>
>> c'est incroyable simple: ecrit a Chris et pose cette question:
>> "where are the 93 Computer Cards?" et dis-nous la reponse.
>>
>> ca c'est tout.  j'ai dit cinque ou sept fois.  c'est pas differente
>> chaque fois.  c'est tout la meme, chaque fois.
>>
>> l.
>
> Ok, thank you Luke for your tireless response.

appreciated Franck.  i have an email of "chris at thinkpenguin.com"
but there are multiple methods.  the more public (such as on
forums) which Chris is known to frequent the better, and if
he cannot censor them (such as on the freedomunchained one)
that is even better.

the reason why public is better is because we have tried private,
for over 18 months, and he simply does not respond.  he is
choosing to ignore them, and choosing to enact Censorship as
a way to make the responsibility "disappear".

now, please, everyone: i cannot continue writing like this,
repeating myself to the point of desperation. it is disrespectful
that you are not listening, particularly that i am in such pain
and so ill that i only have about one clear hour every couple
of days.  that you force me into a position of having to stop
everything else and crash-emergency-reply in-depth to your
questions is deeply frustrating for me when the answers are
ignored, or already on updates, time and time again.

i cannot make promises to you because to do so would be 100%
a lie.  you - all of you - if you want your items you HAVE
to start taking responsibility. i am sufficiently ill and in
pain that the only thing i can do is skim-read and check you are
along the right lines, occasionally giving hints that you
will then have to work put for yourselves.

i WILL NOT EXPLAIN THIS AGAIN.

if you see someone once again failing to comprehend or repeat
questions please REFER THEM DIRECTLY to the relevant archived
message and most definitely DO NOT expect me to do that.

l.


-- 
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

From kontakt at seebergit.dk  Thu Nov 24 20:42:14 2022
From: kontakt at seebergit.dk (Joakim Seeberg)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 21:42:14 +0100
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CAPweEDwnA4p8WVX8EwRCj=sePssGDOM4YOOBz0VMX5JNyqYXOg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOqiJ43nzHcf4r+WX_usuirB=X=C+GP3G7DX53161-CLkb6Gdg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDyhyhLY2zoSBimXJmsmVx9bNSC_d4pVGag3r4-YumTOtg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1940543.zTZ0slctyJ@jason>
	<CAPweEDwnA4p8WVX8EwRCj=sePssGDOM4YOOBz0VMX5JNyqYXOg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8e3b707d-c6ed-5f9d-1312-3e42de4bbd8e@seebergit.dk>



Den 21.11.2022 kl. 22.27 skrev Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton:
> Thinkpenguin is not a sole trader, but there is only Bob (internal-only
> technical R&D), Chris (main frontline support), and*one*  part-time
> helper.

Does anyone have a name of that third person working part-time at 
Thinkpenquin?

Maybe i am way off but I think I used to know a guy who worked for or 
was sponsered by Thinkpenquin.






From lkcl at lkcl.net  Thu Nov 24 21:43:48 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 21:43:48 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <8e3b707d-c6ed-5f9d-1312-3e42de4bbd8e@seebergit.dk>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOqiJ43nzHcf4r+WX_usuirB=X=C+GP3G7DX53161-CLkb6Gdg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDyhyhLY2zoSBimXJmsmVx9bNSC_d4pVGag3r4-YumTOtg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1940543.zTZ0slctyJ@jason>
	<CAPweEDwnA4p8WVX8EwRCj=sePssGDOM4YOOBz0VMX5JNyqYXOg@mail.gmail.com>
	<8e3b707d-c6ed-5f9d-1312-3e42de4bbd8e@seebergit.dk>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDzzyqSBzjh_dt_rQzB3O4ZTiGy2Tt0jSK_6pzXWcH4xVA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thursday, November 24, 2022, Joakim Seeberg via arm-netbook <
arm-netbook at lists.phcomp.co.uk> wrote:

> Does anyone have a name of that third person working part-time at
Thinkpenquin?

they usually answer the phone.

> Maybe i am way off but I think I used to know a guy who worked for or was
sponsered by Thinkpenquin.

yes. josh.  he's the one who i asked if he could drop by,
to pick up the Cards.  sonce he said "yes" i have not heard
back from him since.

l.


-- 
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

From franck at sinimale.fr  Thu Nov 24 21:47:24 2022
From: franck at sinimale.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Franck_Sinimal=E9?=)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 22:47:24 +0100
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <8e3b707d-c6ed-5f9d-1312-3e42de4bbd8e@seebergit.dk>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOqiJ43nzHcf4r+WX_usuirB=X=C+GP3G7DX53161-CLkb6Gdg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDyhyhLY2zoSBimXJmsmVx9bNSC_d4pVGag3r4-YumTOtg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1940543.zTZ0slctyJ@jason>
	<CAPweEDwnA4p8WVX8EwRCj=sePssGDOM4YOOBz0VMX5JNyqYXOg@mail.gmail.com>
	<8e3b707d-c6ed-5f9d-1312-3e42de4bbd8e@seebergit.dk>
Message-ID: <15BB045F-4A45-407C-AA90-8756A92124E6@sinimale.fr>

Maybe you can find something here :
https://social.bobcall.me/@mr_penguin

I found this photo with maybe Chris maybe around the 25th june 2022 :
https://social.bobcall.me/@mr_penguin/108535179520813746

I wonder if and if yes, how should I talk on fediverse to find these cards / help Chris to give any answer...

Le 24 novembre 2022 21:42:14 GMT+01:00, Joakim Seeberg via arm-netbook <arm-netbook at lists.phcomp.co.uk> a écrit :
>
>
>Den 21.11.2022 kl. 22.27 skrev Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton:
>> Thinkpenguin is not a sole trader, but there is only Bob (internal-only
>> technical R&D), Chris (main frontline support), and*one*  part-time
>> helper.
>
>Does anyone have a name of that third person working part-time at Thinkpenquin?
>
>Maybe i am way off but I think I used to know a guy who worked for or was sponsered by Thinkpenquin.
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook at lists.phcomp.co.uk
>http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
>Send large attachments to arm-netbook at files.phcomp.co.uk

From lkcl at lkcl.net  Thu Nov 24 22:58:44 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 22:58:44 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <15BB045F-4A45-407C-AA90-8756A92124E6@sinimale.fr>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOqiJ43nzHcf4r+WX_usuirB=X=C+GP3G7DX53161-CLkb6Gdg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDyhyhLY2zoSBimXJmsmVx9bNSC_d4pVGag3r4-YumTOtg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1940543.zTZ0slctyJ@jason>
	<CAPweEDwnA4p8WVX8EwRCj=sePssGDOM4YOOBz0VMX5JNyqYXOg@mail.gmail.com>
	<8e3b707d-c6ed-5f9d-1312-3e42de4bbd8e@seebergit.dk>
	<15BB045F-4A45-407C-AA90-8756A92124E6@sinimale.fr>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDyaKSc3ZTmxFeUnj3RmnqLpDC5U-QZtRke7KA8T-=4JZA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 9:47 PM Franck Sinimalé <franck at sinimale.fr> wrote:

> I wonder if and if yes, how should I talk on fediverse to find these
> cards / help Chris to give any answer...

interesting.  it's a mastodon instance, so normally (quickest expedient way)
you would register on social.bobcall.me, but it is "closed for new
registrations".
the other way is to satisfy *any one* of the (many) conditions shown here:
https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/14017#issuecomment-642177335

l.


From fsf at murph.info  Fri Nov 25 04:31:45 2022
From: fsf at murph.info (murph)
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 23:31:45 -0500
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Status update
In-Reply-To: <CAPweEDyaKSc3ZTmxFeUnj3RmnqLpDC5U-QZtRke7KA8T-=4JZA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABnoYk2JvSbeharJrPb0mZ3rrC8KmFb1J5bFBf=LCEPrR3-zAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAOqiJ43nzHcf4r+WX_usuirB=X=C+GP3G7DX53161-CLkb6Gdg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPweEDyhyhLY2zoSBimXJmsmVx9bNSC_d4pVGag3r4-YumTOtg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1940543.zTZ0slctyJ@jason>
	<CAPweEDwnA4p8WVX8EwRCj=sePssGDOM4YOOBz0VMX5JNyqYXOg@mail.gmail.com>
	<8e3b707d-c6ed-5f9d-1312-3e42de4bbd8e@seebergit.dk>
	<15BB045F-4A45-407C-AA90-8756A92124E6@sinimale.fr>
	<CAPweEDyaKSc3ZTmxFeUnj3RmnqLpDC5U-QZtRke7KA8T-=4JZA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b81f630d-053b-4191-b4d4-81763086d442@app.fastmail.com>

You don't need to sign up on that instance to send him a message.  Any server on the fediverse can send a message.  I'll be doing so as well.

If anyone has Fediverse or Mastodon questions, I'll be happy to answer off-list.

  --murph 

----- Original message -----
From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl at lkcl.net>
To: Eco-Conscious Computing <arm-netbook at lists.phcomp.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] Status update
Date: Thursday, November 24, 2022 17:58

On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 9:47 PM Franck Sinimalé <franck at sinimale.fr> wrote:

> I wonder if and if yes, how should I talk on fediverse to find these
> cards / help Chris to give any answer...

interesting.  it's a mastodon instance, so normally (quickest expedient way)
you would register on social.bobcall.me, but it is "closed for new
registrations".
the other way is to satisfy *any one* of the (many) conditions shown here:
https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/14017#issuecomment-642177335

l.

_______________________________________________
arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook at lists.phcomp.co.uk
Configuration, options, subscribe and unsubscribe at:
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
Send large attachments to: arm-netbook at files.phcomp.co.uk


From franck at sinimale.fr  Sat Nov 26 09:03:15 2022
From: franck at sinimale.fr (=?UTF-8?Q?Franck_Sinimal=c3=a9?=)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 10:03:15 +0100
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Fwd: Where are the 93 Computer Cards ?
In-Reply-To: <7a848640-2a1f-aa20-fc1f-073fb083e86c@thinkpenguin.com>
References: <7a848640-2a1f-aa20-fc1f-073fb083e86c@thinkpenguin.com>
Message-ID: <4966aaab-897f-8ba3-5a06-425b02a89f2f@sinimale.fr>

Hi all,

Here is Chris's answer. Since I do not understand everything very well, 
I would ask you (Luke ?) what should I (we?) answer.

My first idea could be : "Hi Chris, many thanks for you answer. Nice to 
read that you have some cards. Could you please send them to [this 
direction]. The next step that will be communicated is [this next step]."

Ok, as the end of his answer suggest, I won't ask on mastodon or other 
people for now.

I wait your answer (Luke ?) before replying to Chris. I don't know which 
direction to send cards nor what message to communicate about next step.

Regards,
Franck



-------- Message transféré --------
Sujet : 	...
Date : 	Fri, 25 Nov 2022 13:25:06 -0500
De : 	Christopher Waid <chris at thinkpenguin.com>
Pour : 	Franck Sinimalé <franck at sinimale.fr>




On 11/24/22 10:14, Franck Sinimalé wrote:
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> Hope things are as welle as possible for you.
>
> I'm one of the backers of EOMA68 Computing Devices 
> (https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop).
>
> Could you please tell me (and us) : Where are the 93 Computer Cards ?
>
> Best regards,
> Franck Sinimalé
> https://franck.sinimale.fr/
>
Not sure if it's 93 cards, but yes, I have some # of cards. We need an 
OS image and directions and probably some clear communications as to 
what to do next. If we're sending them to someone he should probably 
email me an address. It would also probably help if he email'd rather 
than asked other people to ask me where things stand. I have no idea 
other than this.

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From lkcl at lkcl.net  Sat Nov 26 09:15:30 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 09:15:30 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Fwd: Where are the 93 Computer Cards ?
In-Reply-To: <4966aaab-897f-8ba3-5a06-425b02a89f2f@sinimale.fr>
References: <7a848640-2a1f-aa20-fc1f-073fb083e86c@thinkpenguin.com>
	<4966aaab-897f-8ba3-5a06-425b02a89f2f@sinimale.fr>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDzyPrvb1US9JoF2siAyU+583A2ECKmdhOqijMmkUEf78A@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Nov 26, 2022 at 9:03 AM Franck Sinimalé <franck at sinimale.fr> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Here is Chris's answer.

... what on earth is going on.  this is literally the first response - ever - in
18 months.

> My first idea could be : "Hi Chris, many thanks for you answer. Nice to
> read that you have some cards. Could you please send them to [this
> direction]. The next step that will be communicated is [this next step]."

it needs to be to get them out of his hands as fast as possible,
with the absolute minimum of action needed on his part.

Joshua, Kelly, (bcc'd) can you possibly arrange a DHL courier pickup,
giving DHL the standard thinkpenguin telephone number, business
address, and Chris's email?

Franck as (incredibly, being literally the only person in 18+ months)
you have established two-way communcation can you please write
to Chris requesting that he pack everything up ready for pick-up
by DHL?

also if you could mention that i have not received a response to
over 40 emails in 18+ months, and neither has Joshua Lifton
received any reponse to either his emails nor had his phone calls
returned, nor has Kelly Vogel had a response, nor has she received
a response from bob at thinkpenguin.com, and in addition none
of the people writing thinkpenguin support requests have had a response.

thank you Franck.

l.

>
>
> -------- Message transféré --------
> Sujet :         ...
> Date :  Fri, 25 Nov 2022 13:25:06 -0500
> De :    Christopher Waid <chris at thinkpenguin.com>
> Pour :  Franck Sinimalé <franck at sinimale.fr>
>
>
>
>
> On 11/24/22 10:14, Franck Sinimalé wrote:
> >
> > Hi Chris,
> >
> > Hope things are as welle as possible for you.
> >
> > I'm one of the backers of EOMA68 Computing Devices
> > (https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop).
> >
> > Could you please tell me (and us) : Where are the 93 Computer Cards ?
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Franck Sinimalé
> > https://franck.sinimale.fr/
> >
> Not sure if it's 93 cards, but yes, I have some # of cards. We need an
> OS image and directions and probably some clear communications as to
> what to do next. If we're sending them to someone he should probably
> email me an address. It would also probably help if he email'd rather
> than asked other people to ask me where things stand. I have no idea
> other than this.
>
> _______________________________________________
> arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook at lists.phcomp.co.uk
> Configuration, options, subscribe and unsubscribe at:
> http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
> Send large attachments to: arm-netbook at files.phcomp.co.uk


From franck at sinimale.fr  Sat Nov 26 09:43:45 2022
From: franck at sinimale.fr (=?UTF-8?Q?Franck_Sinimal=c3=a9?=)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 10:43:45 +0100
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Fwd: Where are the 93 Computer Cards ?
In-Reply-To: <CAPweEDzyPrvb1US9JoF2siAyU+583A2ECKmdhOqijMmkUEf78A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7a848640-2a1f-aa20-fc1f-073fb083e86c@thinkpenguin.com>
	<4966aaab-897f-8ba3-5a06-425b02a89f2f@sinimale.fr>
	<CAPweEDzyPrvb1US9JoF2siAyU+583A2ECKmdhOqijMmkUEf78A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <106569ba-f873-9eb1-1844-49987792dbfc@sinimale.fr>

Hi Luke,

Thank's for your answer, I feel less alone to face the best way to going 
on ;-)

Well, I just realize that I don't realize how incredible his Chris's 
answer...

Thank's for the tips to reply to him. I'll let know here what's 
happening next.

a+
Franck


Le 26/11/2022 à 10:15, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton a écrit :
> On Sat, Nov 26, 2022 at 9:03 AM Franck Sinimalé <franck at sinimale.fr> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Here is Chris's answer.
> ... what on earth is going on.  this is literally the first response - ever - in
> 18 months.
>
>> My first idea could be : "Hi Chris, many thanks for you answer. Nice to
>> read that you have some cards. Could you please send them to [this
>> direction]. The next step that will be communicated is [this next step]."
> it needs to be to get them out of his hands as fast as possible,
> with the absolute minimum of action needed on his part.
>
> Joshua, Kelly, (bcc'd) can you possibly arrange a DHL courier pickup,
> giving DHL the standard thinkpenguin telephone number, business
> address, and Chris's email?
>
> Franck as (incredibly, being literally the only person in 18+ months)
> you have established two-way communcation can you please write
> to Chris requesting that he pack everything up ready for pick-up
> by DHL?
>
> also if you could mention that i have not received a response to
> over 40 emails in 18+ months, and neither has Joshua Lifton
> received any reponse to either his emails nor had his phone calls
> returned, nor has Kelly Vogel had a response, nor has she received
> a response from bob at thinkpenguin.com, and in addition none
> of the people writing thinkpenguin support requests have had a response.
>
> thank you Franck.
>
> l.
>
>>
>> -------- Message transféré --------
>> Sujet :         ...
>> Date :  Fri, 25 Nov 2022 13:25:06 -0500
>> De :    Christopher Waid <chris at thinkpenguin.com>
>> Pour :  Franck Sinimalé <franck at sinimale.fr>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/24/22 10:14, Franck Sinimalé wrote:
>>> Hi Chris,
>>>
>>> Hope things are as welle as possible for you.
>>>
>>> I'm one of the backers of EOMA68 Computing Devices
>>> (https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop).
>>>
>>> Could you please tell me (and us) : Where are the 93 Computer Cards ?
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Franck Sinimalé
>>> https://franck.sinimale.fr/
>>>
>> Not sure if it's 93 cards, but yes, I have some # of cards. We need an
>> OS image and directions and probably some clear communications as to
>> what to do next. If we're sending them to someone he should probably
>> email me an address. It would also probably help if he email'd rather
>> than asked other people to ask me where things stand. I have no idea
>> other than this.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook at lists.phcomp.co.uk
>> Configuration, options, subscribe and unsubscribe at:
>> http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
>> Send large attachments to: arm-netbook at files.phcomp.co.uk
> _______________________________________________
> arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook at lists.phcomp.co.uk
> Configuration, options, subscribe and unsubscribe at:
> http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
> Send large attachments to: arm-netbook at files.phcomp.co.uk


From bms.debian at barwap.com  Sat Nov 26 10:29:29 2022
From: bms.debian at barwap.com (Brendan Sleight)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 10:29:29 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Fwd: Where are the 93 Computer Cards ?
In-Reply-To: <CAPweEDzyPrvb1US9JoF2siAyU+583A2ECKmdhOqijMmkUEf78A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7a848640-2a1f-aa20-fc1f-073fb083e86c@thinkpenguin.com>
	<4966aaab-897f-8ba3-5a06-425b02a89f2f@sinimale.fr>
	<CAPweEDzyPrvb1US9JoF2siAyU+583A2ECKmdhOqijMmkUEf78A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD84F9sffGVDPDCf5Lk=LKr0f7tz4j+e=MdZReYkMKXJed1rLA@mail.gmail.com>

My humble suggestion...

On Sat, 26 Nov 2022, 09:17 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton, <lkcl at lkcl.net>
wrote:

>
> Franck as (incredibly, being literally the only person in 18+ months)
> you have established two-way communcation can you please write
> to Chris requesting that he pack everything up ready for pick-u
> by DHL?
>

Keep it short and sweet.


> also if you could mention that i have not received a response to
> over 40 emails in 18+ months, and neither has Joshua Lifton
> received any reponse to either his emails nor had his phone calls
> returned, nor has Kelly Vogel had a response, nor has she received
> a response from bob at thinkpenguin.com, and in addition none
> of the people writing thinkpenguin support requests have had a response.
>

I feel your pain Luke. I and many other would like some answers. However
step one is get the cards on to DHL. Let keep the email as breif as
possible as that appear to the the M.O. that worked.

My advice is to skip this part and just
 request that he pack everything up ready for pick-u
by DHL

thank you Franck.
>
Ditto above.

From franck at sinimale.fr  Sat Nov 26 10:51:56 2022
From: franck at sinimale.fr (=?UTF-8?Q?Franck_Sinimal=c3=a9?=)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 11:51:56 +0100
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Fwd: Where are the 93 Computer Cards ?
In-Reply-To: <CAD84F9sffGVDPDCf5Lk=LKr0f7tz4j+e=MdZReYkMKXJed1rLA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7a848640-2a1f-aa20-fc1f-073fb083e86c@thinkpenguin.com>
	<4966aaab-897f-8ba3-5a06-425b02a89f2f@sinimale.fr>
	<CAPweEDzyPrvb1US9JoF2siAyU+583A2ECKmdhOqijMmkUEf78A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD84F9sffGVDPDCf5Lk=LKr0f7tz4j+e=MdZReYkMKXJed1rLA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44d8eb0d-eb9b-fb73-c421-a6ab200fa1da@sinimale.fr>

Le 26/11/2022 à 11:29, Brendan Sleight a écrit :
> My humble suggestion...
>
> On Sat, 26 Nov 2022, 09:17 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton, <lkcl at lkcl.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Franck as (incredibly, being literally the only person in 18+ months)
>> you have established two-way communcation can you please write
>> to Chris requesting that he pack everything up ready for pick-u
>> by DHL?
>>
> Keep it short and sweet.
>
>
>> also if you could mention that i have not received a response to
>> over 40 emails in 18+ months, and neither has Joshua Lifton
>> received any reponse to either his emails nor had his phone calls
>> returned, nor has Kelly Vogel had a response, nor has she received
>> a response from bob at thinkpenguin.com, and in addition none
>> of the people writing thinkpenguin support requests have had a response.
>>
> I feel your pain Luke. I and many other would like some answers. However
> step one is get the cards on to DHL. Let keep the email as breif as
> possible as that appear to the the M.O. that worked.
>
> My advice is to skip this part and just
>   request that he pack everything up ready for pick-u
> by DHL
>
> thank you Franck.
> Ditto above.

Here is the reply I 've done to Chris juste now :

"Nice to read you have some # of cards Chris. Could you please pack them 
up and tell me when ready for pickup by DHL ?

The DHL courrier pickup should be sent to thinkpenguin business adresse 
isn'it ?

I think / hope that the communication on next step will be something 
like : a new OS image is built and test are on progress."

To be continued...



From lkcl at lkcl.net  Sat Nov 26 16:35:13 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2022 16:35:13 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Fwd: Where are the 93 Computer Cards ?
In-Reply-To: <44d8eb0d-eb9b-fb73-c421-a6ab200fa1da@sinimale.fr>
References: <7a848640-2a1f-aa20-fc1f-073fb083e86c@thinkpenguin.com>
	<4966aaab-897f-8ba3-5a06-425b02a89f2f@sinimale.fr>
	<CAPweEDzyPrvb1US9JoF2siAyU+583A2ECKmdhOqijMmkUEf78A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD84F9sffGVDPDCf5Lk=LKr0f7tz4j+e=MdZReYkMKXJed1rLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<44d8eb0d-eb9b-fb73-c421-a6ab200fa1da@sinimale.fr>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDxnutE4-W2z6py+RBSEJdgUWZGgrqEy0QZMoFvbt316Ow@mail.gmail.com>

On Saturday, November 26, 2022, Franck Sinimalé <franck at sinimale.fr> wrote:
> Le 26/11/2022 à 11:29, Brendan Sleight a écrit :

>> My advice is to skip this part and just
>>   request that he pack everything up ready for pick-u
>> by DHL

yes agreed, good call Brendan.

>>
>> thank you Franck.
>> Ditto above.
>
> Here is the reply I 've done to Chris juste now :
>
> "Nice to read you have some # of cards Chris. Could you please pack them
up and tell me when ready for pickup by DHL ?
>
> The DHL courrier pickup should be sent to thinkpenguin business adresse
isn'it ?

yes. he should confirm.



-- 
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

From franck at sinimale.fr  Mon Nov 28 21:16:31 2022
From: franck at sinimale.fr (=?UTF-8?Q?Franck_Sinimal=c3=a9?=)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2022 22:16:31 +0100
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Fwd: Where are the 93 Computer Cards ?
In-Reply-To: <CAPweEDxnutE4-W2z6py+RBSEJdgUWZGgrqEy0QZMoFvbt316Ow@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7a848640-2a1f-aa20-fc1f-073fb083e86c@thinkpenguin.com>
	<4966aaab-897f-8ba3-5a06-425b02a89f2f@sinimale.fr>
	<CAPweEDzyPrvb1US9JoF2siAyU+583A2ECKmdhOqijMmkUEf78A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD84F9sffGVDPDCf5Lk=LKr0f7tz4j+e=MdZReYkMKXJed1rLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<44d8eb0d-eb9b-fb73-c421-a6ab200fa1da@sinimale.fr>
	<CAPweEDxnutE4-W2z6py+RBSEJdgUWZGgrqEy0QZMoFvbt316Ow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <64a115ff-f4f4-9e60-c877-f312cc50cb69@sinimale.fr>

Le 26/11/2022 à 17:35, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton a écrit :
> On Saturday, November 26, 2022, Franck Sinimalé<franck at sinimale.fr>  wrote:
>> "Nice to read you have some # of cards Chris. Could you please pack them
> up and tell me when ready for pickup by DHL ?
>> The DHL courrier pickup should be sent to thinkpenguin business adresse
> isn'it ?
>
> yes. he should confirm.

Hi, here is what's happening...

Le 28/11/2022 à 21:51, Franck Sinimalé a écrit :
> Le 28/11/2022 à 18:23, Christopher Waid a écrit :
>>
>> On 11/26/22 05:48, Franck Sinimalé wrote:
>>> Le 25/11/2022 à 19:25, Christopher Waid a écrit :
>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>> Nice to read you have some # of cards Chris. Could you please pack 
>>> them up and tell me when ready for pickup by DHL ?
>>>
>>> The DHL courrier pickup should be sent to thinkpenguin business 
>>> adresse isn'it ?
>>>
>>> I think / hope that the communication on next step will be something 
>>> like : a new OS image is built and test are on progress.
>>
>>
>> If you can have luke email me the shipping address and what I should 
>> send you exactly (if that is the plan) I'd appreciate that. I can 
>> take care of sending it via DHL myself. No need to arrange a pickup.
>
> Hi Chris, I don't know if Luke, Joshua or Kelly will send you the 
> shipping address, but yes the plan is to received the 93 computer 
> cards I think it's to make more tests. Well, I'll let you know or may 
> be you'll received directly the shipping address.

So my humble opinion is : I think it is ok that Chris sent the cards 
himself, isn't it ? So Luke, (Joshua or Kelly ?) can you please send 
[could I propose : send _only_] the shipping address to Chris ?

Regards,
-- 
Franck



From lkcl at lkcl.net  Mon Nov 28 22:27:07 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2022 22:27:07 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Fwd: Where are the 93 Computer Cards ?
In-Reply-To: <64a115ff-f4f4-9e60-c877-f312cc50cb69@sinimale.fr>
References: <7a848640-2a1f-aa20-fc1f-073fb083e86c@thinkpenguin.com>
	<4966aaab-897f-8ba3-5a06-425b02a89f2f@sinimale.fr>
	<CAPweEDzyPrvb1US9JoF2siAyU+583A2ECKmdhOqijMmkUEf78A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD84F9sffGVDPDCf5Lk=LKr0f7tz4j+e=MdZReYkMKXJed1rLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<44d8eb0d-eb9b-fb73-c421-a6ab200fa1da@sinimale.fr>
	<CAPweEDxnutE4-W2z6py+RBSEJdgUWZGgrqEy0QZMoFvbt316Ow@mail.gmail.com>
	<64a115ff-f4f4-9e60-c877-f312cc50cb69@sinimale.fr>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDzX-8xv8OuUTtBNjS-dccU-nN2K_Mf8cSNMWvLMT_kjrQ@mail.gmail.com>

Joshua, Kelly (bcc'd: context:)
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/pipermail/arm-netbook/2022-November/016524.html

On Mon, Nov 28, 2022 at 9:16 PM Franck Sinimalé <franck at sinimale.fr> wrote:

> So my humble opinion is : I think it is ok that Chris sent the cards
> himself, isn't it ? So Luke, (Joshua or Kelly ?) can you please send
> [could I propose : send _only_] the shipping address to Chris ?

i will email joshua and kelly and get something from them.  i greatly
prefer that it be "pick-up" rather than have him deliver because it means
we are not dependent on Chris taking action.

l.


From franck at sinimale.fr  Tue Nov 29 07:47:14 2022
From: franck at sinimale.fr (=?UTF-8?Q?Franck_Sinimal=c3=a9?=)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 08:47:14 +0100
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Fwd: Where are the 93 Computer Cards ?
In-Reply-To: <CAPweEDzX-8xv8OuUTtBNjS-dccU-nN2K_Mf8cSNMWvLMT_kjrQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7a848640-2a1f-aa20-fc1f-073fb083e86c@thinkpenguin.com>
	<4966aaab-897f-8ba3-5a06-425b02a89f2f@sinimale.fr>
	<CAPweEDzyPrvb1US9JoF2siAyU+583A2ECKmdhOqijMmkUEf78A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD84F9sffGVDPDCf5Lk=LKr0f7tz4j+e=MdZReYkMKXJed1rLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<44d8eb0d-eb9b-fb73-c421-a6ab200fa1da@sinimale.fr>
	<CAPweEDxnutE4-W2z6py+RBSEJdgUWZGgrqEy0QZMoFvbt316Ow@mail.gmail.com>
	<64a115ff-f4f4-9e60-c877-f312cc50cb69@sinimale.fr>
	<CAPweEDzX-8xv8OuUTtBNjS-dccU-nN2K_Mf8cSNMWvLMT_kjrQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2075f7bc-4bf4-6d12-6742-b88bd049ea01@sinimale.fr>

Le 28/11/2022 à 23:27, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton a écrit :
> Joshua, Kelly (bcc'd: context:)
> http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/pipermail/arm-netbook/2022-November/016524.html
>
> On Mon, Nov 28, 2022 at 9:16 PM Franck Sinimalé <franck at sinimale.fr> wrote:
>
>> So my humble opinion is : I think it is ok that Chris sent the cards
>> himself, isn't it ? So Luke, (Joshua or Kelly ?) can you please send
>> [could I propose : send _only_] the shipping address to Chris ?
> i will email joshua and kelly and get something from them.  i greatly
> prefer that it be "pick-up" rather than have him deliver because it means
> we are not dependent on Chris taking action.
>
> l.

We are dependent on Chris taking action. And great, Chris propose to do 
something for us. I think he wants you, Luke, to sent the shipping 
address. Some time the man page is written but we don't do it like it is 
written. Weird human behavior ;-)

Anyway, as a man in the middle (mediator) I have to let know Chris about 
the answer. After that, it will be done for me on this set. Luke are you 
really going to send a DHL pick-up to Chris ?

-- 
Franck



From lkcl at lkcl.net  Tue Nov 29 08:09:32 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 08:09:32 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Fwd: Where are the 93 Computer Cards ?
In-Reply-To: <2075f7bc-4bf4-6d12-6742-b88bd049ea01@sinimale.fr>
References: <7a848640-2a1f-aa20-fc1f-073fb083e86c@thinkpenguin.com>
	<4966aaab-897f-8ba3-5a06-425b02a89f2f@sinimale.fr>
	<CAPweEDzyPrvb1US9JoF2siAyU+583A2ECKmdhOqijMmkUEf78A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD84F9sffGVDPDCf5Lk=LKr0f7tz4j+e=MdZReYkMKXJed1rLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<44d8eb0d-eb9b-fb73-c421-a6ab200fa1da@sinimale.fr>
	<CAPweEDxnutE4-W2z6py+RBSEJdgUWZGgrqEy0QZMoFvbt316Ow@mail.gmail.com>
	<64a115ff-f4f4-9e60-c877-f312cc50cb69@sinimale.fr>
	<CAPweEDzX-8xv8OuUTtBNjS-dccU-nN2K_Mf8cSNMWvLMT_kjrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<2075f7bc-4bf4-6d12-6742-b88bd049ea01@sinimale.fr>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDwxrsO9GwhS2KHXj_VNnV+KHh46_iRxkFx9KV-VeFGLwA@mail.gmail.com>

---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 7:47 AM Franck Sinimalé <franck at sinimale.fr> wrote:
>
> Le 28/11/2022 à 23:27, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton a écrit :
> > Joshua, Kelly (bcc'd: context:)
> > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/pipermail/arm-netbook/2022-November/016524.html
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 28, 2022 at 9:16 PM Franck Sinimalé <franck at sinimale.fr> wrote:
> >
> >> So my humble opinion is : I think it is ok that Chris sent the cards
> >> himself, isn't it ? So Luke, (Joshua or Kelly ?) can you please send
> >> [could I propose : send _only_] the shipping address to Chris ?
> > i will email joshua and kelly and get something from them.  i greatly
> > prefer that it be "pick-up" rather than have him deliver because it means
> > we are not dependent on Chris taking action.
> >
> > l.
>
> We are dependent on Chris taking action. And great, Chris propose to do
> something for us. I think he wants you, Luke, to sent the shipping
> address.

no, i'm not going to do that, because after he failed to respond to
40 emails from me, failed to respond to Joshua Lifton, the CEO of
Crowdsupply, failed to respond to multiple messages from Kelly
Vogel, Manager at CS, introducing him to a hand-over that, from
experience, we expect and anticipate to fail, will cause further
delay, further confusion, further time and further harm.

i've had enough.

> Some time the man page is written but we don't do it like it is
> written. Weird human behavior ;-)

yyep :)

> Anyway, as a man in the middle (mediator) I have to let know Chris about
> the answer. After that, it will be done for me on this set.

fantastic to have your help.

> Luke are you
> really going to send a DHL pick-up to Chris ?

no.  Joshua mentioned that Chris sends out packages all the time.

i will forward you the address and tel no privately.

l.


From franck at sinimale.fr  Tue Nov 29 21:43:23 2022
From: franck at sinimale.fr (=?UTF-8?Q?Franck_Sinimal=c3=a9?=)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 22:43:23 +0100
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Fwd: Where are the 93 Computer Cards ?
In-Reply-To: <CAPweEDwxrsO9GwhS2KHXj_VNnV+KHh46_iRxkFx9KV-VeFGLwA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7a848640-2a1f-aa20-fc1f-073fb083e86c@thinkpenguin.com>
	<4966aaab-897f-8ba3-5a06-425b02a89f2f@sinimale.fr>
	<CAPweEDzyPrvb1US9JoF2siAyU+583A2ECKmdhOqijMmkUEf78A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD84F9sffGVDPDCf5Lk=LKr0f7tz4j+e=MdZReYkMKXJed1rLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<44d8eb0d-eb9b-fb73-c421-a6ab200fa1da@sinimale.fr>
	<CAPweEDxnutE4-W2z6py+RBSEJdgUWZGgrqEy0QZMoFvbt316Ow@mail.gmail.com>
	<64a115ff-f4f4-9e60-c877-f312cc50cb69@sinimale.fr>
	<CAPweEDzX-8xv8OuUTtBNjS-dccU-nN2K_Mf8cSNMWvLMT_kjrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<2075f7bc-4bf4-6d12-6742-b88bd049ea01@sinimale.fr>
	<CAPweEDwxrsO9GwhS2KHXj_VNnV+KHh46_iRxkFx9KV-VeFGLwA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f0ddf9f8-4242-9647-db0c-c96c0c248aab@sinimale.fr>

Le 29/11/2022 à 09:09, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton a écrit :
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 7:47 AM Franck Sinimalé <franck at sinimale.fr> wrote:
>> [...]
>> Le 28/11/2022 à 23:27, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton a écrit :Luke are you
>> really going to send a DHL pick-up to Chris ?
> no.  Joshua mentioned that Chris sends out packages all the time.
>
> i will forward you the address and tel no privately.
>
> l.


Here is the last exchange with Chris on this topic I think :

Le 29/11/2022 à 22:33, Franck Sinimalé a écrit :

Le 29/11/2022 à 20:13, Christopher Waid a écrit :

>
> On 11/29/22 03:31, Franck Sinimalé wrote:
>> Le 28/11/2022 à 21:51, Franck Sinimalé a écrit :
>>> [...]
>>>
>> Hi Chris,
>>
>> Here we are, long story short : I get the shipping address ! (..) It 
>> seems you should have received it too :-/
>>
>> Could you please sent the cards you have to this above shipping 
>> address to Crowd Supply's office ?
>>
>> Regards,
>
>
> I sent Luke an email and will wait for his response. I'd like to just 
> confirm with him that this is what the plan of action is. I'll then 
> proceed to ship it if he agrees.

Ok, thank's a lot Chris. Luke should agree. I think backers of EOMA68 
will be happy to know that, some communication hsould be done. I thing 
my interaction should finish now, so it was an honor and a pleasure to 
talk with you Chris. Hope to read-write you soon.

Regards,
Franck




From luke.leighton at gmail.com  Tue Nov 29 22:17:14 2022
From: luke.leighton at gmail.com (lkcl)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 22:17:14 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Fwd: Where are the 93 Computer Cards ?
In-Reply-To: <f0ddf9f8-4242-9647-db0c-c96c0c248aab@sinimale.fr>
References: <7a848640-2a1f-aa20-fc1f-073fb083e86c@thinkpenguin.com>
	<4966aaab-897f-8ba3-5a06-425b02a89f2f@sinimale.fr>
	<CAPweEDzyPrvb1US9JoF2siAyU+583A2ECKmdhOqijMmkUEf78A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD84F9sffGVDPDCf5Lk=LKr0f7tz4j+e=MdZReYkMKXJed1rLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<44d8eb0d-eb9b-fb73-c421-a6ab200fa1da@sinimale.fr>
	<CAPweEDxnutE4-W2z6py+RBSEJdgUWZGgrqEy0QZMoFvbt316Ow@mail.gmail.com>
	<64a115ff-f4f4-9e60-c877-f312cc50cb69@sinimale.fr>
	<CAPweEDzX-8xv8OuUTtBNjS-dccU-nN2K_Mf8cSNMWvLMT_kjrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<2075f7bc-4bf4-6d12-6742-b88bd049ea01@sinimale.fr>
	<CAPweEDwxrsO9GwhS2KHXj_VNnV+KHh46_iRxkFx9KV-VeFGLwA@mail.gmail.com>
	<f0ddf9f8-4242-9647-db0c-c96c0c248aab@sinimale.fr>
Message-ID: <12623721-9D8D-4DA3-920A-47C049C546DF@gmail.com>

franck, et al, i also heard ftom chris, he explained what's been
going on, his premises are under surveillance and likely all
communications intercepted, and likely dropped on the floor.
we've established that huge numbers of messages are missing.

thank you for your help getting to the bottom of this, chris
is going to send the cards to joshua, which gets pressure off
of chris.

l.

From franck at sinimale.fr  Tue Nov 29 22:47:37 2022
From: franck at sinimale.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Franck_Sinimal=E9?=)
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 23:47:37 +0100
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Fwd: Where are the 93 Computer Cards ?
In-Reply-To: <12623721-9D8D-4DA3-920A-47C049C546DF@gmail.com>
References: <7a848640-2a1f-aa20-fc1f-073fb083e86c@thinkpenguin.com>
	<4966aaab-897f-8ba3-5a06-425b02a89f2f@sinimale.fr>
	<CAPweEDzyPrvb1US9JoF2siAyU+583A2ECKmdhOqijMmkUEf78A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD84F9sffGVDPDCf5Lk=LKr0f7tz4j+e=MdZReYkMKXJed1rLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<44d8eb0d-eb9b-fb73-c421-a6ab200fa1da@sinimale.fr>
	<CAPweEDxnutE4-W2z6py+RBSEJdgUWZGgrqEy0QZMoFvbt316Ow@mail.gmail.com>
	<64a115ff-f4f4-9e60-c877-f312cc50cb69@sinimale.fr>
	<CAPweEDzX-8xv8OuUTtBNjS-dccU-nN2K_Mf8cSNMWvLMT_kjrQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<2075f7bc-4bf4-6d12-6742-b88bd049ea01@sinimale.fr>
	<CAPweEDwxrsO9GwhS2KHXj_VNnV+KHh46_iRxkFx9KV-VeFGLwA@mail.gmail.com>
	<f0ddf9f8-4242-9647-db0c-c96c0c248aab@sinimale.fr>
	<12623721-9D8D-4DA3-920A-47C049C546DF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <89FA98D1-0B5A-4BFE-8D70-448A1D2F47FB@sinimale.fr>

Thanks for the news Luke.
Hope to read soon about the EOMA68 computer devices next step.
-- 
Franck 

Le 29 novembre 2022 23:17:14 GMT+01:00, lkcl <luke.leighton at gmail.com> a écrit :
>franck, et al, i also heard ftom chris, he explained what's been
>going on, his premises are under surveillance and likely all
>communications intercepted, and likely dropped on the floor.
>we've established that huge numbers of messages are missing.
>
>thank you for your help getting to the bottom of this, chris
>is going to send the cards to joshua, which gets pressure off
>of chris.
>
>l.