From paul at boddie.org.uk Sat Mar 23 15:55:14 2019 From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie) Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2019 16:55:14 +0100 Subject: [Arm-netbook] EOMA68 Computing Devices Update: 500 Micro Desktop PCB Assemblies Message-ID: <8092138.haKQSaDJ8s@jeremy> Hello again, It was nice to see this latest update on the project: "Just a brief update: Mike’s factory has assembled the 500 Micro Desktop PCBs, though the through-hole VGA connectors still need to be hand-soldered on. These are the simpler of the two boards, so all of the Micro Desktops are being done, whereas explained in a previous update, the more complex board, the EOMA68-A20, will only be done in a smaller test run of 100 at first." https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/500-micro-desktop-pcb-assemblies It must be satisfying to see all of this start to come together. On the topic of casings for the computer cards, I get the sense that there are no ready-made solutions for the outward-facing side of the cards, this despite most traditional PCMCIA/CardBus-profile cards exposing ports of different kinds (such as modems, network ports, like two cards I have from many years ago) and thus having similar requirements. I suppose 3D printing or some other creative casing solution isn't an option. Injection moulding seems to be quite demanding, as the following from the Tomu campaign indicates: "Right now a shop in China is etching the Tomu case shape into one ton of steel. Once that’s done they’ll manufacture a few units to verify the etching works. After this “T0” shot, they will harden the steel tool and start production." https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/tomu/updates/design-done-production-started To provide context, the Tomu case is a tiny piece of plastic of around one square centimetre and probably no more than 3mm in depth! Paul From lkcl at lkcl.net Sat Mar 23 16:56:25 2019 From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton) Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2019 16:56:25 +0000 Subject: [Arm-netbook] EOMA68 Computing Devices Update: 500 Micro Desktop PCB Assemblies In-Reply-To: <8092138.haKQSaDJ8s@jeremy> References: <8092138.haKQSaDJ8s@jeremy> Message-ID: On Sat, Mar 23, 2019 at 3:56 PM Paul Boddie wrote: > > Hello again, hi paul good to hear from you > It was nice to see this latest update on the project: > > "Just a brief update: Mike’s factory has assembled the 500 Micro Desktop PCBs, > though the through-hole VGA connectors still need to be hand-soldered on. > These are the simpler of the two boards, so all of the Micro Desktops are > being done, whereas explained in a previous update, the more complex board, > the EOMA68-A20, will only be done in a smaller test run of 100 at first." > > https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates/500-micro-desktop-pcb-assemblies > > It must be satisfying to see all of this start to come together. yeah - kinda weird as well, "um is that all it takes, you just have to um wait for a factory to um make them??" > On the topic of casings for the computer cards, I get the sense that there are > no ready-made solutions for the outward-facing side of the cards, this despite > most traditional PCMCIA/CardBus-profile cards exposing ports of different > kinds (such as modems, network ports, like two cards I have from many years > ago) and thus having similar requirements. correct. > I suppose 3D printing or some other creative casing solution isn't an option. not a snowball in hell's chance. resin is too brittle, 3D printing is far too inaccurate, and the plastic is extremely thin. 5 years ago the ones we had stamped out for prototypes (laser-cutting i believe) broke almost immediately. > Injection moulding seems to be quite demanding, it is. USD $10k is a not unreasonable budget... for soft tooling that will produce decent pieces for the first 1,000 items, start to wear out for the second 1,000 and produce shit thereafter. that's $10k to $20k to *fail* to get it right, as in $10k to $20k *per iteration*. i do know someone in the UK who knows of a company that supplies Formula 1 teams. their software is designed, thanks to the extreme amount of work done for Formula 1, to *simulate* the injection mold process. as a result, they *guarantee* that the molds that are CNC milled from what their software outputs will work first time, and that includes guarantees that bridges that the software recommends be put in place to stop warping (against pull AND push pressures as the plastic cools in the mold) will do the job. my friend worked for a company that didn't use their software, to manufacture a housing for an articulated lorry mirror. it was curved (for aerodynamic reasons) so there was plenty of opportunity for warping and stress / pressure fractures. GBP 80,000 to ***FAIL*** to get it right. the company had to then spend another GBP 45,000 on a second iteration. injection-molding is a bitch. so... i've instructed mike to tell the factory staff to get out the cutters, and to snap off the front-facing part of the plastic. at some point i may get made an extremely thin gluable / foldable metal faceplate. an extremely thin metal sticker, basically, with the holes for the MicroHDMI, MicroSD and USB-OTG. l. From paul at boddie.org.uk Mon Mar 25 17:57:58 2019 From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie) Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 18:57:58 +0100 Subject: [Arm-netbook] TIL: Intel's credit-card sized modular computer is "inspired" by EOMA68 In-Reply-To: <201702080104.36099.paul@boddie.org.uk> References: <102206e8-9980-aed8-b378-fc57f2a2917a@aross.me> <201702080104.36099.paul@boddie.org.uk> Message-ID: <18278699.Ap1dlDA0lq@jeremy> On Wednesday 8. February 2017 01.04.35 Paul Boddie wrote: > > Still, showering the market with products isn't likely to diminish consumer > confusion, is it? Intel's own corporate attention span is as much a threat > to this product as almost anything else. And as anticipated... "It's the end of the line for Intel Compute Cards" https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/3073050/its-the-end-of-the-line-for-intel-compute-cards Informative quote: "Spare a thought for NexDock, a partner of Intel that spent two years working on software to allow its NexPad computers to work with the Compute Cards, only for Intel to pull the hardware." Details here: "The Tale of NexDock and Intel Compute Card" http://nexdock.com/blog/the-tale-of-nexdock-and-intel-compute-card/ And there was also a cursory review almost two years ago: "Intel Compute Card hands-on review" https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/review/3011074/intel-shows-off-computer-card-at-computex-2017 It seems like people were receptive to the idea of pluggable computer cards, but Intel's proprietary technology was always going to threaten the viability of this implementation of the concept. Meanwhile, the NexDock people seem to be pursuing their smartphone docking campaign suggesting that USB-C will be the way that people might attach computer cards to their "docks" in future, however that might work. Paul From doark at mail.com Tue Mar 26 23:51:45 2019 From: doark at mail.com (David Niklas) Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 19:51:45 -0400 Subject: [Arm-netbook] EOMA68 Computing Devices Update: 500 Micro Desktop PCB Assemblies In-Reply-To: References: <8092138.haKQSaDJ8s@jeremy> Message-ID: <20190326195145.725dc339@Phenom-II-x6.niklas.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On Sat, 23 Mar 2019 16:56:25 +0000 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: > > not a snowball in hell's chance. resin is too brittle, 3D printing > is far too inaccurate, and the plastic is extremely thin. 5 years ago > the ones we had stamped out for prototypes (laser-cutting i believe) > broke almost immediately. > What material did you laser cut? I would have thought that laser cut aluminum would be perfect. Thanks, David -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEL2N7+xWmVOJDQxWGm3XCrhg2YP8FAlyauxIACgkQm3XCrhg2 YP95EhAAr85ocjWHrH4jrPr4iHYQobttcBt6EcphHSeSGwKl7gwFABsvGAIh2fpT iK4PItnrOfMcGS3AQJFsdvPE5hvpRRvdoq6z6Q9y5I4wRn7DX6It89IgEGdI+lae jwxMdVvF30CsF2D0wpiHajWNSECblFrmYBm+SinUmdR7SzO6MAdJJHtbdJRGmcCx g6sEuaImLeyDaHu/4TR4bT9NFJriG/j2dsOYIpjMaZo/vQ3Hre+R+DJ5DCEZcgZ5 XH7/Y6Xzn3nxa8GEcskO0RA8BLjASjJs/aWQY2bEbcgjmvCqt2hBeT/QDzU+l4SY ES8yS3ETOQACBRwSmtulrRQfNcf0paD6VPmXY13GTY800ixX6OsJr+kxUBRtSouo qnCy1V6DKe3UQb6QIyHACvfqOXzuebkR7B0xMCUKEvKO9aIJ91rv9JvnoFcIxtzN fP9cHgbYw4snwl1RQV8rFrmbclzMTB9QqXoyT98gOLC489sm5Rc8dKxygOmQovJW N2a9lyzMRjMU6eo4FoKj3WohOokKa2tBS23YIO5IlgNtRnak6ies92jZgiUNj7pp 2uxLjD/wOZwgmuDATDgrOPu3lphimoDt2lF7rcJHzMqSJUKlIxdrBUBAw5N85gTW JMTw54bKwjb3TnHk2jyUny2wWvPkJdYKI2kjfS/rn277V+lSd3I= =Ue1z -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From lkcl at lkcl.net Wed Mar 27 06:21:03 2019 From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton) Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2019 06:21:03 +0000 Subject: [Arm-netbook] EOMA68 Computing Devices Update: 500 Micro Desktop PCB Assemblies In-Reply-To: <20190326195145.725dc339@Phenom-II-x6.niklas.com> References: <8092138.haKQSaDJ8s@jeremy> <20190326195145.725dc339@Phenom-II-x6.niklas.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 11:52 PM David Niklas wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA256 > > On Sat, 23 Mar 2019 16:56:25 +0000 > Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: > > > > > not a snowball in hell's chance. resin is too brittle, 3D printing > > is far too inaccurate, and the plastic is extremely thin. 5 years ago > > the ones we had stamped out for prototypes (laser-cutting i believe) > > broke almost immediately. > > > > What material did you laser cut? I would have thought that laser cut > aluminum would be perfect. ten prototypes of the mass-produced PCMCIA plastic surround from Litkconn had holes laser-cut to make space for the micro-sd, micro-hdmi and USB-OTG ports. the result was plastic under 1mm deep that had only around 0.5mm height below e.g. the micro-sd card and it of course snapped immediately. as a result we considered very thin metal sheet (thick foil in effect) that could be stamped (or laser cut) and was effectively a "metal sticker" that could go over the end and be bent round. probably even by hand. l. From maillist_arm-netbook at aross.me Wed Mar 27 10:47:56 2019 From: maillist_arm-netbook at aross.me (Alexander Ross) Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2019 10:47:56 +0000 Subject: [Arm-netbook] EOMA68 Computing Devices Update: 500 Micro Desktop PCB Assemblies In-Reply-To: References: <8092138.haKQSaDJ8s@jeremy> <20190326195145.725dc339@Phenom-II-x6.niklas.com> Message-ID: <1ed7fb46-c849-eaa0-407a-6506f7651ea3@aross.me> The metal sticker sounds good to me. Better than nothing or anything else i can do my self. i guess it will last a good while too :). More fancy options could be saved for future cards with bigger budget i guess. Thanks for the update/documentation posts again btw. They’ve been my lessons in design, engineering and bringing a product to market. :D Helped me to have ideas like what if old signs made from aluminium plastic composite sheets where used to make a lightweight portable subwoofer or a light weight, cheap shipping box.... shaving the grams off :) and cheap :) From richard.wilbur at gmail.com Wed Mar 27 11:15:46 2019 From: richard.wilbur at gmail.com (Richard Wilbur) Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2019 11:15:46 +0000 Subject: [Arm-netbook] EOMA68 Computing Devices Update: 500 Micro Desktop PCB Assemblies In-Reply-To: References: <8092138.haKQSaDJ8s@jeremy> <20190326195145.725dc339@Phenom-II-x6.niklas.com> Message-ID: <30CBEF09-47F0-4AC6-B01D-876B74739C44@gmail.com> > On Mar 27, 2019, at 06:21, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: > >> On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 11:52 PM David Niklas wrote: >> >> On Sat, 23 Mar 2019 16:56:25 +0000 >> Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: >> >>> >>> not a snowball in hell's chance. resin is too brittle, 3D printing >>> is far too inaccurate, and the plastic is extremely thin. 5 years ago >>> the ones we had stamped out for prototypes (laser-cutting i believe) >>> broke almost immediately. >>> >> >> What material did you laser cut? I would have thought that laser cut >> aluminum would be perfect. > > ten prototypes of the mass-produced PCMCIA plastic surround from > Litkconn had holes laser-cut to make space for the micro-sd, > micro-hdmi and USB-OTG ports. > > the result was plastic under 1mm deep that had only around 0.5mm > height below e.g. the micro-sd card and it of course snapped > immediately. Sounds like a more flexible plastic is needed but that clearly impacts the manufacturing processes available and thus the cost. > as a result we considered very thin metal sheet (thick foil in > effect) that could be stamped (or laser cut) and was effectively a > "metal sticker" that could go over the end and be bent round. > probably even by hand. Did you try the foil? How well did it work? From lkcl at lkcl.net Wed Mar 27 11:59:47 2019 From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton) Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2019 11:59:47 +0000 Subject: [Arm-netbook] EOMA68 Computing Devices Update: 500 Micro Desktop PCB Assemblies In-Reply-To: <30CBEF09-47F0-4AC6-B01D-876B74739C44@gmail.com> References: <8092138.haKQSaDJ8s@jeremy> <20190326195145.725dc339@Phenom-II-x6.niklas.com> <30CBEF09-47F0-4AC6-B01D-876B74739C44@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 11:16 AM Richard Wilbur wrote: > > > Sounds like a more flexible plastic is needed but that clearly impacts the manufacturing processes available and thus the cost. the existing plastic comes as-is. making *any* changes would require a minimum of around USD $20k in design and injection-molding costs. > > as a result we considered very thin metal sheet (thick foil in > > effect) that could be stamped (or laser cut) and was effectively a > > "metal sticker" that could go over the end and be bent round. > > probably even by hand. > > Did you try the foil? How well did it work? no - just a design idea. shelved for the first Cards as there's insufficient funds. can always send them out later. l. From richard.wilbur at gmail.com Wed Mar 27 13:32:54 2019 From: richard.wilbur at gmail.com (Richard Wilbur) Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2019 13:32:54 +0000 Subject: [Arm-netbook] EOMA68 Computing Devices Update: 500 Micro Desktop PCB Assemblies In-Reply-To: References: <8092138.haKQSaDJ8s@jeremy> <20190326195145.725dc339@Phenom-II-x6.niklas.com> <30CBEF09-47F0-4AC6-B01D-876B74739C44@gmail.com> Message-ID: <35A347BA-CF10-45C3-880C-FA2C3BADFF7F@gmail.com> > On Mar 27, 2019, at 11:59, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: > > the existing plastic comes as-is. making *any* changes would require > a minimum of around USD $20k in design and injection-molding costs. Yes, that's prohibitive when you are on the wrong side of out of money! >>> as a result we considered very thin metal sheet (thick foil in >>> effect) that could be stamped (or laser cut) and was effectively a >>> "metal sticker" that could go over the end and be bent round. >>> probably even by hand. >> >> Did you try the foil? How well did it work? > > no - just a design idea. shelved for the first Cards as there's > insufficient funds. can always send them out later. Any idea how much it would cost to test the idea?