From doark at mail.com  Thu Aug  1 03:49:49 2019
From: doark at mail.com (David Niklas)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 22:49:49 -0400
Subject: [Arm-netbook] PINE64 foundation beat us both to making a laptop
Message-ID: <20190731224949.48bf1a6f@Phenom-II-x6.niklas.com>

No intent to discourage, but rather to encourage, as it's opensource
AFAIK and have researched.

https://www.pine64.org/2019/07/05/july-update-all-about-the-pinebook-pro/

Powered by an RK3399.
I think the ROCK64 board:

https://www.pine64.org/devices/single-board-computers/rock64/

I'm unsure how much RAM the laptop has as the article is very sparse on
details. I did try and search for the information. Likewise for the
information on camera, screen, and anything other then the USB-C
connector which appears to be brought out along with some form of EMMC
flash and it has a 10,000mAh battery.

It's rather chintzy looking, though. And that is why I'm making my own.
That's the power of OSS/FLOSS!

Sincerely,
David


From lkcl at lkcl.net  Thu Aug  1 07:37:08 2019
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2019 07:37:08 +0100
Subject: [Arm-netbook] PINE64 foundation beat us both to making a laptop
In-Reply-To: <20190731224949.48bf1a6f@Phenom-II-x6.niklas.com>
References: <20190731224949.48bf1a6f@Phenom-II-x6.niklas.com>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDz4G=iEgEihOmn84hiF+rMu3spcKqgUa8mcK6=0qHG8Dg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 1, 2019 at 3:50 AM David Niklas <doark at mail.com> wrote:

> https://www.pine64.org/2019/07/05/july-update-all-about-the-pinebook-pro/

thanks david.

> It's rather chintzy looking, though. And that is why I'm making my own.
> That's the power of OSS/FLOSS!

 :)


From pablo at parobalth.org  Thu Aug  1 20:47:32 2019
From: pablo at parobalth.org (Pablo Rath)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2019 21:47:32 +0200
Subject: [Arm-netbook] PINE64 foundation beat us both to making a laptop
In-Reply-To: <20190731224949.48bf1a6f@Phenom-II-x6.niklas.com>
References: <20190731224949.48bf1a6f@Phenom-II-x6.niklas.com>
Message-ID: <20190801194732.ze4m2icrytqsc5xd@pabbook>

Hello David,
Thank you for sharing the news. It seems likely that the Pinebook Pro
will be delivered faster than the EOMA68 Laptop. In comparison with EOMA68 I miss the
modularity and the libre and environmental aspects.
In my experience one has to expect quirks and workarounds and be patient when a project
does not proactively communicates how libre it is.

On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 10:49:49PM -0400, David Niklas wrote:

[...]

> I'm unsure how much RAM the laptop has as the article is very sparse on
> details. I did try and search for the information. Likewise for the
> information on camera, screen, and anything other then the USB-C
> connector which appears to be brought out along with some form of EMMC
> flash and it has a 10,000mAh battery.
> 

Some specs including RAM is here:
https://www.pine64.org/pinebook-pro/

Found a discussion about the Pinebook Pro, Trisquel, wifi, libreboot and mali
GPU in the Trisquel forum. EOMA68 is als mentioned:
https://trisquel.info/de/forum/trisquel-arm-pinebook-pro-running-trisquel-trisquel-touch

kind regards
Pablo


From doark at mail.com  Fri Aug  2 04:28:03 2019
From: doark at mail.com (David Niklas)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2019 23:28:03 -0400
Subject: [Arm-netbook] PINE64 foundation beat us both to making a laptop
In-Reply-To: <20190801194732.ze4m2icrytqsc5xd@pabbook>
References: <20190731224949.48bf1a6f@Phenom-II-x6.niklas.com>
	<20190801194732.ze4m2icrytqsc5xd@pabbook>
Message-ID: <20190801232803.63a6eb12@Phenom-II-x6.niklas.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On Thu, 1 Aug 2019 21:47:32 +0200
Pablo Rath <pablo at parobalth.org> wrote:

> Hello David,
> Thank you for sharing the news. It seems likely that the Pinebook Pro
> will be delivered faster than the EOMA68 Laptop. In comparison with
> EOMA68 I miss the modularity and the libre and environmental aspects.
> In my experience one has to expect quirks and workarounds and be
> patient when a project does not proactively communicates how libre it
> is.

Which is almost every time... I wish I could be an optimist, I really do.

> On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 10:49:49PM -0400, David Niklas wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > I'm unsure how much RAM the laptop has as the article is very sparse
> > on details. I did try and search for the information. Likewise for the
> > information on camera, screen, and anything other then the USB-C
> > connector which appears to be brought out along with some form of EMMC
> > flash and it has a 10,000mAh battery.
> >   
> 
> Some specs including RAM is here:
> https://www.pine64.org/pinebook-pro/
> 
> Found a discussion about the Pinebook Pro, Trisquel, wifi, libreboot
> and mali GPU in the Trisquel forum. EOMA68 is als mentioned:
> https://trisquel.info/de/forum/trisquel-arm-pinebook-pro-running-trisquel-trisquel-touch
> 
> kind regards
> Pablo
> 

Thanks Pablo,
I was interested in knowing more about it, though I have no intentions
to buy, but I could not find the info.

David
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From EfraimVagner at protonmail.com  Fri Aug  2 06:37:03 2019
From: EfraimVagner at protonmail.com (EfraimVagner)
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2019 05:37:03 +0000
Subject: [Arm-netbook] PINE64 foundation beat us both to making a laptop
In-Reply-To: <20190801232803.63a6eb12@Phenom-II-x6.niklas.com>
References: <20190731224949.48bf1a6f@Phenom-II-x6.niklas.com>
	<20190801194732.ze4m2icrytqsc5xd@pabbook>
	<20190801232803.63a6eb12@Phenom-II-x6.niklas.com>
Message-ID: <Kz3-y0aI6LFghsgd9H4c1BFlQfIslaehPt-Jq2ubh45A9Apd0NnV-9Z-fyErU-LIYtvzOKuiuj8cTqylw5Yr3NT5WAI7xUz6jjTodjHtCXk=@protonmail.com>



On Friday, August 2, 2019 6:28 AM, David Niklas <doark at mail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 1 Aug 2019 21:47:32 +0200
> Pablo Rath pablo at parobalth.org wrote:
>
> > Hello David,
> > Thank you for sharing the news. It seems likely that the Pinebook Pro
> > will be delivered faster than the EOMA68 Laptop. In comparison with
> > EOMA68 I miss the modularity and the libre and environmental aspects.
> > In my experience one has to expect quirks and workarounds and be
> > patient when a project does not proactively communicates how libre it
> > is.
>
> Which is almost every time... I wish I could be an optimist, I really do.
>
> > On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 10:49:49PM -0400, David Niklas wrote:
> > [...]
> >
> > > I'm unsure how much RAM the laptop has as the article is very sparse
> > > on details. I did try and search for the information. Likewise for the
> > > information on camera, screen, and anything other then the USB-C
> > > connector which appears to be brought out along with some form of EMMC
> > > flash and it has a 10,000mAh battery.
> >
> > Some specs including RAM is here:
> > https://www.pine64.org/pinebook-pro/
> > Found a discussion about the Pinebook Pro, Trisquel, wifi, libreboot
> > and mali GPU in the Trisquel forum. EOMA68 is als mentioned:
> > https://trisquel.info/de/forum/trisquel-arm-pinebook-pro-running-trisquel-trisquel-touch
> > kind regards
> > Pablo
>
> Thanks Pablo,
> I was interested in knowing more about it, though I have no intentions
> to buy, but I could not find the info.
>
> David



>From what I could gather its firmware isn't 100% free, because the WiFi and GPU (and I think even the CPU) need some proprietary code, but there are projects that work on replacing the GPU's (and CPU's) with open firmware. The WiFi could be replaced with an external USB dongle.
As for the hardware, it has no open schematics at all, as far as I know.

Mali GPU open firmware: https://panfrost.freedesktop.org
Rockchip board: http://opensource.rock-chips.com/wiki_Main_Page


From doark at mail.com  Sat Aug 24 22:45:11 2019
From: doark at mail.com (David Niklas)
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2019 17:45:11 -0400
Subject: [Arm-netbook] Arduino, ARM microcontrollers, and analog
Message-ID: <20190824174512.26fed233@Phenom-II-x6.niklas.com>

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Hello list,
Recently I and luke exchanged a set of emails on the above topic and luke
suggested to bring the discussion on list. I originally sent it off list
to avoid adding more off topic discussion, but luke advised that:
"It's very diverse, and concerns the *development* of laptops - and
hardware."

So, here's the refresher (I'm not going to quote all of it because it's
not worth it to you or anyone).
There's still room for much discussion on the subject.

luke, if my attempted condensed form does not capture your intentions
perfectly be sure to send my terminal SIG666 and scream loudly. ;-)

> As a direct result of Trump's tariffs I find myself needing to buy
> myself a few uCs now instead of later [1].
> The problem is, though I do know a lot about electricity I know
> relatively little about integrated circuits. I've got a long road ahead
> filled with lots of reading to get there.
>
> If you have any other suggestions, I'm also listening.

Luke pointed out that "pricing on things like STM32Fs is so low, it's not
worth worrying about."
I answered, "Call me pathetic, but 25% is still 25% no matter the
starting cost. There's also the concern that if the uC demand reduces
then the price will rise as the companies strive to make up for lost
profits and then demand will further drop... and development will
stall..."




Luke recommended the STM32F lineup supported by lubopencm3, which I
already had my eyes on, and said that the AVR lineup was yucky.

Since then I discovered that there is a third choice of uCs. They use
the LX6 32bit microprocessor at 160-240MHz, which is pretty fast.
Here's wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESP32
Lots of links to docs here: http://esp32.net/
Git hub has lots of code: https://github.com/espressif
Official docs: https://docs.espressif.com/projects/esp-idf/en/latest/

What's strange about them is that they have not released the ISA docs yet
for the LX6 core in spite of GCC 5.2 supporting it. GCC 7 and 8 support
is experimental.
https://github.com/espressif/crosstool-NG/pull/2
https://esp32.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6477
https://www.esp32.com/viewtopic.php?t=293
I did double check that this is still the case:
https://esp32.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11908




My intentions in purchasing are two fold: I'll probably be using a uC for
a keyboard on my own laptop, and I had hoped to build an Opensource
oscilloscope/logic analyzer several years from now. This is not to
mention the usefulness which uCs can be in general.

Luke pointed out, "that's a different matter: that's pretty hard-core ADC
territory. 100mhz and above, with 16-bit accuracy and above:
realistically, only Analog Devices covers that ground, and a standard
low-cost uC would not in any way be able to cope with the amount of data
generated."

That exact use case has a large following (179 articles on hackaday
alone): https://hackaday.com/tag/oscilloscope/
And here's a really cool project using SDRAM:
https://hackaday.com/2016/07/19/hackaday-prize-entry-the-cheapest-logic-analyzer/

Here are some "professional" ones.
ATXMEGA32A4U uC powered:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/920064946/xminilab-portable-oscilloscope
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/920064946/xprotolab-portable

Here are some not using uCs:
Xilinx spartan3A FPGA:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/751733865/smartscope-reinventing-the-oscilloscope
Luke kindly pointed out that this is FPGA powered:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/201461162/unoprologic2-ultra-low-cost-open-source-oscillosco
MIPS arch (has higher clocks then your typical uC):
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/oscope/mutliplatform-multi-os-oscilloscope-signal-generat

Lastly and I've no idea what powers this one, even after reading the
datasheet's summery:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/342199468/openscope-instrumentation-for-everyone







If you've got anything to add, as always, thank you,
David


> [1]: I get it, tariffs work for steel, but not so well for computers, as
> bunnie explains it's a much much more dangerous game:
> https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/12/business/us-steel-mill/
> https://www.nasdaq.com/article/nucor-to-build-135-billion-steel-plate-mill-in-kentucky-cm1121964
> https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=5349
> I read that they would affect SBCs on linuxgizmos and guessed they'd
> affect uCs before too long also:
> http://linuxgizmos.com/introduction-to-catalog-of-125-linux-hacker-boards/
> What's really strange is that he's targeting the maker community vs.
> only the big companies like ASUS, i.e. he's not set a small quantity
> limit on the tariffs (though big companies would probably try to
> maneuver into such an exception).
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From aexlfowley at web.de  Sun Aug 25 18:12:57 2019
From: aexlfowley at web.de (aexlfowley at web.de)
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2019 19:12:57 +0200
Subject: [Arm-netbook] PINE64 foundation beat us both to making a laptop
Message-ID: <3a880beb-9a97-7e4e-0125-9ca9d064659f@web.de>

On Fri Aug 2 06:37:03 BST 2019, EfraimVagner <EfraimVagner at
protonmail.com>  wrote:

>As for the hardware, it has no open schematics at all, as far as I know.

https://wiki.pine64.org/index.php/Pinebook_Main_Page#Pinebook_Schematics_and_Certifications
https://wiki.pine64.org/index.php/1080P_Pinebook_Main_Page#Pinebook_Schematics_and_Certifications