From kphillisjr at gmail.com Wed Jul 1 07:12:34 2015 From: kphillisjr at gmail.com (Ken Phillis Jr) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 01:12:34 -0500 Subject: [Arm-netbook] Fundraising and campaign status (and wiki authentication)? In-Reply-To: References: <201506121625.05776.paul@boddie.org.uk> Message-ID: Google Still has OpenID Support, it's just that they forced everyone to upgrade their authentication. See the relevent OpenID Documentation ( http://openid.net/connect/ ) and the google developer pages ( https://developers.google.com/identity/protocols/OpenIDConnect and https://developers.google.com/identity/protocols/OpenID2Migration) On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 9:53 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: > On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 3:25 PM, Paul Boddie wrote: > > I saw a collection of recent updates on the wiki, although the URL in the > > following page is wrong: > > > > http://rhombus-tech.net/fundraising/ > > > > Where... > > > > https://crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro_desktop > > > > ...should be... > > > > https://crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop > > sorted thanks paul > > > I tried to authenticate myself using various mechanisms in order to edit > the > > page, but... > > > > * OpenID didn't work with the Python Package Index OpenID provider > > * Google have discontinued their OpenID 2.0 support (yes, thanks Google > for > > breaking the Web again!) > > yaaay! oh dear > > > * Wordpress claimed that I don't own my own username > > :) > > > Particularly the last one, but also the first one, sounds more like > > communications issues between the wiki and OpenID providers. > > ok i'll let phil know. > > > I guess I could register, but I thought it might be helpful to indicate a > > possible problem. > > appreciated. might also explain why there's been less registrations... > > l. > > _______________________________________________ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook at lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netbook at files.phcomp.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From phil at hands.com Wed Jul 1 08:44:24 2015 From: phil at hands.com (Philip Hands) Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2015 08:44:24 +0100 Subject: [Arm-netbook] ... wiki authentication? In-Reply-To: References: <201506121625.05776.paul@boddie.org.uk> Message-ID: <87pp4cgw4n.fsf@whist.hands.com> Ken Phillis Jr writes: > Google Still has OpenID Support, it's just that they forced everyone to > upgrade their authentication. See the relevent OpenID Documentation ( > http://openid.net/connect/ ) and the google developer pages ( > https://developers.google.com/identity/protocols/OpenIDConnect and > https://developers.google.com/identity/protocols/OpenID2Migration) Right, and I'm not sure that ikiwiki's support has kept pace (I recently noticed that certifi.ca are no longer up & running, and that myopenid has also bitten the dust, so installed local-openid to allow me to use openid: http://bogomips.org/local-openid/ which suits me nicely, but probably not 99.99% of people. OpenID seems to have fallen out of favour pretty seriously (at least in part due to security issues) but I've not discovered what's supposed to replace it, particularly if you don't want to rely on signing into some major site to assert your identity. It would be nice to get ikiwiki to support Mozilla Persona, but so far not: https://ikiwiki.info/todo/BrowserID/ Regarding google's OpenID, I'll see if I can remember how to log into my diaposable google account, and do some testing ... Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/ http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg, GERMANY -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 818 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kphillisjr at gmail.com Wed Jul 1 10:47:24 2015 From: kphillisjr at gmail.com (Ken Phillis Jr) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 04:47:24 -0500 Subject: [Arm-netbook] ... wiki authentication? In-Reply-To: <87pp4cgw4n.fsf@whist.hands.com> References: <201506121625.05776.paul@boddie.org.uk> <87pp4cgw4n.fsf@whist.hands.com> Message-ID: I understand, and i should make a note that it would be a really good idea to add three more providers... Microsoft - This requires some research, but they have OpenID Connect Support. https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/azure/dn645541.aspx https://dev.onedrive.com/index.htm PayPal - This is an Odd one, but they also offer an login api... https://developer.paypal.com/docs/integration/direct/identity/log-in-with-paypal/ FaceBook - This is one of the largest providers I can think of. https://developers.facebook.com/docs/facebook-login/v2.3 On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 2:44 AM, Philip Hands wrote: > Ken Phillis Jr writes: > > > Google Still has OpenID Support, it's just that they forced everyone to > > upgrade their authentication. See the relevent OpenID Documentation ( > > http://openid.net/connect/ ) and the google developer pages ( > > https://developers.google.com/identity/protocols/OpenIDConnect and > > https://developers.google.com/identity/protocols/OpenID2Migration) > > Right, and I'm not sure that ikiwiki's support has kept pace (I recently > noticed that certifi.ca are no longer up & running, and that myopenid > has also bitten the dust, so installed local-openid to allow me to use > openid: > > http://bogomips.org/local-openid/ > > which suits me nicely, but probably not 99.99% of people. > > OpenID seems to have fallen out of favour pretty seriously (at least in > part due to security issues) but I've not discovered what's supposed to > replace it, particularly if you don't want to rely on signing into some > major site to assert your identity. > > It would be nice to get ikiwiki to support Mozilla Persona, > but so far not: > > https://ikiwiki.info/todo/BrowserID/ > > Regarding google's OpenID, I'll see if I can remember how to log into my > diaposable google account, and do some testing ... > > Cheers, Phil. > -- > |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. > |-| http://www.hands.com/ http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ > |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg, GERMANY > > _______________________________________________ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook at lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netbook at files.phcomp.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kphillisjr at gmail.com Wed Jul 1 11:05:29 2015 From: kphillisjr at gmail.com (Ken Phillis Jr) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 05:05:29 -0500 Subject: [Arm-netbook] 15in laptop casework progress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Looks interesting, and does this include options to use a laptop Hard drive or Laptop CD/DVD Drive? On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 11:10 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton < lkcl at lkcl.net> wrote: > http://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/laptop_15in/news/ > > getting there. redesigned the central spar to be more structural > support, to help prevent torsion and to give the back edge part > something to get its teeth into. a beefy touchpanel holder worked out > well for keeping the front edges in place, so this was replicated at > the back as well. > > l. > > _______________________________________________ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook at lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netbook at files.phcomp.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lkcl at lkcl.net Wed Jul 1 12:04:07 2015 From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 12:04:07 +0100 Subject: [Arm-netbook] 15in laptop casework progress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 11:05 AM, Ken Phillis Jr wrote: > Looks interesting, and does this include options to use a laptop Hard drive > or Laptop CD/DVD Drive? no - there's no space, and it's not safe to do so (mechanically): i'll explain why. ordinarily, laptop casework would be made as a "single unit", right? the base for example is a single huge piece, requiring something like 60,000 kg of force to push the plastic through the injection mold, spreading out across an area 35cm x 20cm at a depth of only around 1mm in depth. throughout that base there are various "struts" which help support the base: strengthening around holes (such as connectors, cd/dvd drives, and so on), and internal dividers for PCBs, as well as random bits that stop the case from warping when it cools. the warping occurs because the extreme pressure results in different stresses across different parts of the plastic, so you get some parts "pulling" and others "pushing" - end result: warping. bunnie huang has a very good article about the process if you're interested: http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=4146 so for a huge hole like a CD/DVD, you can put a huge amount of internal "support", you can create a structural "bay" that is anchored to the rest of the casework, compensating for the fact that, on the outside, you've a huge weakness on the outside edge. however what i am doing is completely different: i don't have a 3D printer that is capable of printing a single block on a 400 x 300mm bed, and even if it was possible to do i still would not do it because that would require about 50 continuous hours of sitting there monitoring the print to make absolutely absolutely 100% absolute without fail absolute certainty that it printed without a fault. any mistake even at time 49 hours 59 minutes, the end result must be thrown away. i'm not tolerating that: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/how-to-3d-print-a-laptop so instead i am designing this in a series of parts, each of which is a maximum of 2 metres of 3mm plastic (about 18 grams), and there are around 15 separate parts. each may be printed separately: one error clearly does not result in the entire lot being thrown away. also, the middle areas, in order to save plastic, i aim to use bamboo or other wooden laminate. these are *not* joined to the rest of the parts (plastic): they are *not* structural: they are merely protective, and the interior parts will be taped down with double-sided sticky tape (in a "sandwich" effect) with the bamboo being top and bottom, and jammed into and surrounded on all 4 edges by plastic. so - and this is where you get your answer, ken - each part needs to be strong *on its own*. i have interior cross-hatching inside the middle strut (running from front to back) which ensures that the strut does not significantly bend or twist. the 4 front and back parts (left and right) all require interior bracing. i have not arranged any holes in these 4 front and back parts, so they are quite strong. however, the left and right edges are where the connectors are poking through, and it is here where there is vulnerability to stress. in particular, the EOMA68 connector is quite long - 55mm - and 5.5mm deep. that leaves only 3mm *above* the CPU card and only 2mm *below* the CPU card, for a total depth of 10.5mm in the casework. that left edge is only 12mm wide... ... can you see how that might not be very strong? :) i can't add any extra support anywhere else, so i am going to have to rely on the PCB itself (1.2mm thick) to provide some structural support, here. down the entire length of the left (and right) edges i have added a 3mm high strut, and underneath the CPU Card i have filled that in to the maximum possible height (which is only 2mm), but i consider this to be marginal, even though it is the best that can be done. regarding a hard drive bay: yeahhh there just isn't enough space. i had to move the touchpanel / touch-LCD over slightly, due to its internal connectors coming out in ways that were slightly awkward. that reduced the depth of the (only) available interior space - front left corner. so the only available space for a hard drive is just a tiny bit too small, but it *is* enough for a USB memory stick (or USB WIFI, or USB 3G). i have made space for 2 such USB dongles. the entire right-hand side is taken up with a battery (10Ah). it's actually a bicycle battery, and as such is far lower cost than anything that's actually "designed" for a laptop. the reason why the battery is not at the back (and removable) is, again, as you can see from the above: strength. mechanically it is too difficult to arrange a strong compartment at the back of the laptop. hope that explains why it is not really possible in this design to fit a hard drive or a CD/DVD. the other reason why it is not possible is because there is simply insufficient power. i have had a heck of a job finding a suitable low-cost PMIC that can provide the amount of current required to drive the LCD and the CPU Card *and* 4 USB devices (the LTC 4155) - it can provide up to 4A @ 5V and it isn't hugely expensive. if there was an internal DVD and an internal HDD, that power requirement would go up to 6A @ 5V (30 watts). now that's starting to get expensive, as well as almost certainly requiring fans (to cool down the PMIC board). also it would be necessary to start investigating 2-cell or 3-cell PMICs for battery charging, because 6A @ 5V is a hell of a lot (4A is already into 2oz copper) - and that not only starts to get complicated but also gets costly, *and* i would have to abandon the simple single-cell approach *and* start the process of contacting suppliers... *again*.... asking around for different-sized batteries. so in summary, can you see, ken, how such a simple-sounding question has absolutely massive implications which, in effect, require completely abandoning absolutely everything that i've done in the past 6 months, in effect starting *entirely* from scratch, abandoning all the component sourcing, PCB design work *and* the casework designed so far *and* requiring to research an entirely new mechanical design approach (from scratch) in order to accommodate the innocently-asked-for parts? :) this is a simple laptop, with a very straightforward design, where the target sale price (even in 1k volumes) i would like to be around the $USD 350 mark. there's plenty of storage space: two Micro-SD cards (one internal in the laptop, one in the CPU Card), on-board NAND flash for OS, and there are 2 internal full-sized USB connectors behind a removable compartment. l. From lkcl at lkcl.net Wed Jul 1 12:43:31 2015 From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 12:43:31 +0100 Subject: [Arm-netbook] ... wiki authentication? In-Reply-To: <87pp4cgw4n.fsf@whist.hands.com> References: <201506121625.05776.paul@boddie.org.uk> <87pp4cgw4n.fsf@whist.hands.com> Message-ID: hi phil apologies for endeavouring to grab your attention via the list, but the wiki's still out-of-sync: generating wrappers.. refreshing wiki.. error: Your local changes to the following files would be overwritten by merge: fundraising.mdwn Please, commit your changes or stash them before you can merge. Aborting 'git pull --prune origin' failed: at /usr/share/perl5/IkiWiki/Plugin/git.pm line 218. done l. From lkcl at lkcl.net Fri Jul 3 12:10:33 2015 From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2015 12:10:33 +0100 Subject: [Arm-netbook] spaghetti instead of 3d Message-ID: http://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/laptop_15in/news/ first print of 4 of the full-sized parts - enough to put the keyboard and touch/LCD in place to see what the laptop will look like. l. From lkcl at lkcl.net Sun Jul 5 17:39:04 2015 From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2015 17:39:04 +0100 Subject: [Arm-netbook] 05 july 2015 laptop casework progress Message-ID: http://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/laptop_15in/news/ getting there. next is to do the right-hand edge, which will take the 3rd PCB (battery, power etc.). all sorts of small niggles, still have to check that the bamboo panels will fit, for example! need to get some battery samples to make sure that it'll fit, etc. etc.... l. From nico at nicorikken.eu Wed Jul 8 21:35:16 2015 From: nico at nicorikken.eu (Nico Rikken) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2015 22:35:16 +0200 Subject: [Arm-netbook] Req: FOSS-restricting firmware hints Message-ID: <1436387716.1109.46.camel@nicorikken.eu> Dear ARM-netbook and Coreboot readers, In FSFE context we're looking for examples regarding firmware restrictions on modern computer hardware. This so that we can shed light on the difficult situation you are all too familiar with. Examples are: - Trusted Platform Module (TPM) chips - Secure Boot - Intel - Management Engine - Advanced Management Technology - Boot Guard It will be great if you can add some from the top of your head, ideally including some references. I'll be doing my own research as well, but your hints will greatly help this process. Kind regards, Nico Rikken -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 213 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From lkcl at lkcl.net Thu Jul 9 15:01:20 2015 From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2015 15:01:20 +0100 Subject: [Arm-netbook] video of 15.6in laptop casework Message-ID: http://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/laptop_15in/news/ just created a 5min video describing the casework: the parts for the base are now completed, i will move onto the screen next. l. From wookey at wookware.org Thu Jul 9 15:44:47 2015 From: wookey at wookware.org (Wookey) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2015 15:44:47 +0100 Subject: [Arm-netbook] video of 15.6in laptop casework In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20150709144447.GV17162@halon.org.uk> +++ Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton [2015-07-09 15:01 +0100]: > http://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/laptop_15in/news/ > > just created a 5min video describing the casework: the parts for the > base are now completed, i will move onto the screen next. That looks really nice, luke. How do the joins work (e.g along the top edge)? Are they screwed or slotted or clipped? You know what looking at that case made me think of: project ara, with a nominally similar concept of a skeleton you put various components into (CPU, display, batteries etc). Looking into using the bus they've devloped to make bit-swapping more modular might be something to think about. It's all in the kernel already. The fancy magnetic hot-swap connectors will be hard to get currently no doubt, but any connector will do to start with. The major design difference is that there is a core microcontroller on the ara design to manage the hotplugging, so that the CPU modules aren't special. Anyway this is probably a distraction as you already have a plan, but just thought I'd mention it. Wookey -- Principal hats: Linaro, Debian, Wookware, ARM http://wookware.org/ From lkcl at lkcl.net Thu Jul 9 16:58:51 2015 From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2015 16:58:51 +0100 Subject: [Arm-netbook] video of 15.6in laptop casework In-Reply-To: <20150709144447.GV17162@halon.org.uk> References: <20150709144447.GV17162@halon.org.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 3:44 PM, Wookey wrote: > +++ Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton [2015-07-09 15:01 +0100]: >> http://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/laptop_15in/news/ >> >> just created a 5min video describing the casework: the parts for the >> base are now completed, i will move onto the screen next. > > That looks really nice, luke. thanks. took long enough :) > How do the joins work (e.g along the top edge)? Are they screwed or > slotted or clipped? it's.... complicated :) there are eight pieces involved in the construction: left, centre and right vertical parts, then front and back edges, two each, horizontally, and then the touch panel tray. the left and right edges have a bolt hole at each end, you can see a threaded bar sticking out horizontally from all four corners: these will be M2 phillips screw-headed bolts (or allen key hex-bolts) in the real thing. in each of the front and back parts, a nut is placed into a channel where it can be pushed down into the right place. i'm having a leeetle difficulty with that, the channel is over 15mm deep. the front of the vertical edge has, around the bolt hole, an indentation, and then just above it is a sticking-out bit. the end of the horizontal edge has a corresponding sticking-out bit (bolt hole goes through that, leading to the nut channel), and it has a corresponding indentation to lock the sticking-out bit from the left edge. both of these together lock the left and front edge absolutely solid when the bolt is in place. both sets of indentation-plus-sticking-out-bit are designed to be injection-molded using only 2-part molds. the back edge is a little more complicated: same principle, but there has to be a channel running down the middle of the protrusion that locks into the left edge, because that's where the cable goes. the middle part is held with M2 8mm screws. 4 at the back to hold the back-left and back-right edge. there is "stepping" in the two edges, so the screws towards the back actually go down deeper by about 4mm than the ones further towards the front. the middle part therefore has a couple of "wings" with corresponding "steps" in it. i'm going to alter this slightly to be more like the touchpanel. there are another two screws that are *horizontal* and these go into a couple of flying wings attached to the middle part, screwing into the front edge, left and right. this was a bit of a complicated arrangement because the wings are off the ground (important when you think about 3D printing), you can't make the wings too thin because the screws would break.. the touchpanel part is screwed down in *seven* places. one is in the middle (from top) 4 are along the front edge (again top). the front of the touchpanel has a hidden strut all along its length: this fits into slots in the front edges. the idea is not to pack out the entire touchpanel with plastic (or the front edges) but to leave _just_ enough in each to give some strength so that things don't bend about due to being weak. saves the screws a bit from shearing sideways in their holes. another 2 horizontal screws into flying wings lock the touchpanel into the front edges so that both front edges can't rotate about their main axis. that's just the main parts - there's some internal parts for the keyboard tray, battery support, PCB support. which is why it's taken since.... january to get this far! > You know what looking at that case made me think of: project ara, with > a nominally similar concept of a skeleton you put various components > into (CPU, display, batteries etc). Looking into using the bus they've > devloped to make bit-swapping more modular might be something to think > about. grrr. i'm extremely disappointed and angry with google for using - and extending - a cartel there, based around MIPI. MIPI LCDs are *already* cartelled: MOQs are at least 100k units, possibly even higher: nobody wanting to do a base unit will even get the *slightest* opportunity there, despite several executives being jailed a few years ago. they just got a bit more subtle about it. ... and then google went and damn well extended MIPI with this UniPro stuff. go look up how many manufacturers of chipsets there are, there. first one in - with all the patents - will be the *last* one in. luckily there are a couple of companies just coming out of stealth mode who have much better architectures than what google came up with. heck, the first was buglabs and that was *years* ago. > It's all in the kernel already. The fancy magnetic hot-swap > connectors will be hard to get currently no doubt, but any connector > will do to start with. yes i figured using 8-pin SIM card connectors would do the job. 8 pins is just enough for USB2, power, I2C and a couple of pins GPIO. and SIM card connectors are designed to be slim, spring-loaded, you can PCB-print the pressure-points and gold-plate them... perfect. with spring-loading you can even do a side-slide-in module, but i'd prefer a magnetic latch. > The major design difference is that there is a core microcontroller on > the ara design to manage the hotplugging, so that the CPU modules > aren't special. well, USB2 is hot-pluggable. and it doesn't mind being disconnected. I2C is ok for hot-swapping if you keep it on a separate bus. > Anyway this is probably a distraction as you already > have a plan, but just thought I'd mention it. as you can see above, i have... :) the CPU module form-factor i want to use is CompactFlash. connectors are available, easily. have a 3D printer, can make casework. i've even got a first suitable processor, for the first version: the Ingenic M150 - it has 128mb of LPDDR2 RAM *on board* in the same IC package. i'm not so bothered about the fact that it's only a 1ghz MIPS, nor about the fact that 128mb of RAM is such a small amount these days: the space in CompactFlash is unbelievably tight and i at least want to get _something_ out the door successfully on the first run that's affordable. ... but i'm still concentrating on EOMA68 at the moment. l. From lkcl at lkcl.net Thu Jul 9 17:14:35 2015 From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2015 17:14:35 +0100 Subject: [Arm-netbook] video of 15.6in laptop casework In-Reply-To: References: <20150709144447.GV17162@halon.org.uk> Message-ID: .. btw, wookey, don't laugh, but there's going to have to be a piece of string that wraps around a key in the left and right edges about 2/5ths the way along each edge, with another piece of string down the middle to pull the long one tight, in order to pull the left and right edges together. the reason is because those left and right edges are really long (over 8 in) and quite thin, so they flex about 2 to 3 mm _real_ easily. the keyboard tray holder parts (at the front edge of the keyboard) are quite thin and flexible on their own i can make lock-in channels which stop them moving about, and they'll be backed up by the bamboo panels which stop them flexing... ... but what i _can't_ do - not without creating multi-part injection-molds or putting in more screws (and the parts are already only 3mm thick, and are non-structural, so i can't justify the plastic for a screw-hole) - is get the keyboard tray holder parts to "snap-lock" and stay attached in all 3 degrees of freedom. the lock-in channels can only stop 2 degrees of freedom. so the only way to stop the other degree of freedom (which results in flexing of the left and right edge) is to use string *right* across the laptop, to pull the two edges together. this is actually really really important to do, because if i don't, and the left or right edges flex even slgihtly, not only will the keyboard tray holders fall out of their slots, but the bamboo panels in the base will fall out, and the bamboo panel on the top to the right of the touchpanel will fall out, and there will be a gap down the side of the compartment lid on the left... yes the panels are going to be held in place with 3M double-sided tape, but not everywhere. so those left and right edges being pulled in tight is quite critical. l. From maillist_arm-netbook at aross.me Thu Jul 9 20:59:58 2015 From: maillist_arm-netbook at aross.me (Alexander Stephen Thomas Ross) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2015 20:59:58 +0100 Subject: [Arm-netbook] video of 15.6in laptop casework In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <559ED2BE.1040000@aross.me> been meaning to say, it looks awesome luke, the pics a few posts ago and a cool smooth look. in the video the purple colour looks more like a funky purple than in the pics, I’m quite fond of a deep funky purple :). oh with the keyboard will it be that layout or will/can it be one with a fn key next to the arow keys so you can, using one hand browser page up/down, home/end/ up,down,left,right. like on my asus 1011px keyboard. just ask for a pic if you would like one? is it possible to get rid of the m$ logo for the super key on the keyboard on the final production units? swap it or have it as a plain,blank key or one like it with the round cycle but without the logo? maybe include a robust sticker(s) for the user to put on to there liking? thank you muchly for all your hard work. looking forward to having one :D From lkcl at lkcl.net Thu Jul 9 21:06:41 2015 From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2015 21:06:41 +0100 Subject: [Arm-netbook] video of 15.6in laptop casework In-Reply-To: <559ED2BE.1040000@aross.me> References: <559ED2BE.1040000@aross.me> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 8:59 PM, Alexander Stephen Thomas Ross wrote: > been meaning to say, it looks awesome luke, the pics a few posts ago and > a cool smooth look. in the video the purple colour looks more like a > funky purple than in the pics, I’m quite fond of a deep funky purple :). yeah me too, i like bright eye-burning colours for some reason. i have a colour-coordinated tennis outfit that includes a lime-green shirt, bright red shorts, blue racket used by nikolai davydenko (no, really, it really *was* his racket - custom-made), with an orange damper, bright neon-yellow tennis shoes and mis-matching socks. i'm thinking of providing people with the option of 3d-printed "random coloured parts", as well as one that's entirely clear ABS. i think it'd be utterly cool to be able to see all the parts inside a laptop. > oh with the keyboard will it be that layout or will/can it be one with a > fn key next to the arow keys so you can, using one hand browser page > up/down, home/end/ up,down,left,right. like on my asus 1011px keyboard. > just ask for a pic if you would like one? > > is it possible to get rid of the m$ logo for the super key on the > keyboard on the final production units? swap it or have it as a > plain,blank key or one like it with the round cycle but without the > logo? maybe include a robust sticker(s) for the user to put on to there > liking? i picked the keyboard based on its availability, and the casework has to be hard-custom-made to match it *and* then you have to arrange the PCB *specifically* to match the output connector in *exactly* the right place for that absolute specific make and model of keyboard. later on it will be possible to custom-design keys by asking the keyboard manufacturer to make something else, but that requires a MOQ of 50,000 units and takes a long time to arrange and source. the keyboard i picked because it is very common in a number of OEM laptops, and a number of Packard Bell laptops as well. so there is no danger of it going end-of-line for a good while yet. l. > thank you muchly for all your hard work. > > looking forward to having one :D > > _______________________________________________ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook at lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netbook at files.phcomp.co.uk From lkcl at lkcl.net Fri Jul 10 18:19:46 2015 From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 18:19:46 +0100 Subject: [Arm-netbook] video of 15.6in laptop casework In-Reply-To: References: <20150709144447.GV17162@halon.org.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 4:58 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: > On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 3:44 PM, Wookey wrote: >> How do the joins work (e.g along the top edge)? Are they screwed or >> slotted or clipped? > > it's.... complicated :) and i decided to make it even more so, wookey - that'll be another 7 metres of plastic needed :) although the pieces at the front of the keyboard are quite flimsy i decided that yes, what the heck, put another couple of screws in. perhaps wookey i will disassemble the whole thing and show how the parts fit together as a video, it'll be a few days because i have to redo these edge parts first. l. From mike at dewberryfields.co.uk Fri Jul 10 19:23:52 2015 From: mike at dewberryfields.co.uk (Michael Howard) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 19:23:52 +0100 Subject: [Arm-netbook] video of 15.6in laptop casework In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55A00DB8.6000502@dewberryfields.co.uk> On 09/07/2015 15:01, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: > http://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/laptop_15in/news/ > > just created a 5min video describing the casework: the parts for the > base are now completed, i will move onto the screen next. > > l. > > _______________________________________________ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook at lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netbook at files.phcomp.co.uk Well done, really well done. -- From lkcl at lkcl.net Tue Jul 14 14:53:25 2015 From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 14:53:25 +0100 Subject: [Arm-netbook] video of 15.6in laptop casework In-Reply-To: <20150709144447.GV17162@halon.org.uk> References: <20150709144447.GV17162@halon.org.uk> Message-ID: alright wookey, i figured reading huuuge amounts of text would be like "yeahright" so i did a disassembly video juuust for you :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27hS5PAiz2Q l. From lkcl at lkcl.net Tue Jul 14 15:01:47 2015 From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 15:01:47 +0100 Subject: [Arm-netbook] 15.6in libre laptop "whoops"... Message-ID: oh dear, first mistake: hoping it's not too big a deal... i've done the base, now, and have moved on to doing the LCD screen holder parts. i forgot to check which side the connector is... turns out that when the screen's facing forwards the connector is on the *right*.... guess which side i put the main PCB? yep, on the left... so that shouldn't be so big a deal, right? just run the cable all the way along the back of the lcd until it pops out? noo problem, right? ... except it has to cross the middle part of the LCD, which is where there is a divider so that the left and right bamboo laminate panels can "lock" into place, and also so that the top and bottom channels can be divided into two (so they'll fit across a 200mm x 200mm 3d printer). the problem is in joining the parts together. previously i had thought to slot a little u-shape in place which would act as a trap: the ends of each of the U would "lock" into the left and right edges.... noo problem, right? except now there's a cable that has to go through exactly where that joining-piece was supposed to go. the other option: i was considering mirror-imaging the laptop base. put the PCB on the right, battery on the left.... except argh i remembered that i had to *offset* the touchpanel from centre (by about 30mm) in order to fit the battery to its right, and also fit PCB2 so that the keyboard connector goes into it.... all of this means that there is absolutely no way that the parts can be mirror-imaged: it's a near total redesign of the interior, and i'm certainly not doing that. sooo i have an eeenteresting mechanical design challenge left to think about.... :) l. From maillist_arm-netbook at aross.me Fri Jul 17 02:11:11 2015 From: maillist_arm-netbook at aross.me (Alexander Stephen Thomas Ross) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2015 02:11:11 +0100 Subject: [Arm-netbook] video of 15.6in laptop casework In-Reply-To: References: <559ED2BE.1040000@aross.me> Message-ID: <55A8562F.4090204@aross.me> On 09/07/15 21:06, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: > i picked the keyboard based on its availability, and the casework has > to be hard-custom-made to match it *and* then you have to arrange the > PCB *specifically* to match the output connector in *exactly* the > right place for that absolute specific make and model of keyboard. > > later on it will be possible to custom-design keys by asking the > keyboard manufacturer to make something else, but that requires a MOQ > of 50,000 units and takes a long time to arrange and source. > > the keyboard i picked because it is very common in a number of OEM > laptops, and a number of Packard Bell laptops as well. so there is no > danger of it going end-of-line for a good while yet. > ok thanks for giving me the picture. thought i recognised it as the keyboard used in dell laptops. arr well, ill still buy it (cus its a eoma laptop :D . i can always have a keyboard remapping time :). i wonder, is it possible to get ones that are the same but for the printed letters being Dvorak or other better for heath of ones hands layout (where was another but i forget the name)? so same size, same connector position, just different printed letters on the keys? maybe there’s a little side biz to be had by someone in removing the m$ logo from the super key hehe. thanks as always luke From lkcl at lkcl.net Fri Jul 17 09:56:39 2015 From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2015 09:56:39 +0100 Subject: [Arm-netbook] video of 15.6in laptop casework In-Reply-To: <55A8562F.4090204@aross.me> References: <559ED2BE.1040000@aross.me> <55A8562F.4090204@aross.me> Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 2:11 AM, Alexander Stephen Thomas Ross wrote: > i wonder, is it possible to get ones that are the same but for the > printed letters being Dvorak or other better for heath of ones hands > layout (where was another but i forget the name)? so same size, same > connector position, just different printed letters on the keys? if the MOQ is enough or if someone's prepared to reassemble them i don't see why not. From lkcl at lkcl.net Thu Jul 23 17:53:54 2015 From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 17:53:54 +0100 Subject: [Arm-netbook] 15.6in laptop progress Message-ID: is there no end to the detail that's needed?? okaay so i started on the screen edge, which (surprise) turned out to need to be thicker than anticipated. increasing the thickness by 2mm had a knock-on effect because, naturally, the base end depth has to be increased to match. then i began work on the friction hinge for the screen lid, so that it will remain upright. you'd think it would be easy to create an interlock between two pieces 8mm in diameter that looks aesthetic and is strong enough, but nooo i can tell you it damn well isn't :) now i am onto one of the final pieces of the puzzle: creating a lid lock. this needs to be spring-loaded (ball-point biro pen spring, cut into 1/4s 7mm long) and i am kinda amazed at how much detail is needed in such a small space. the clasp is 10mm x 9mm x 8mm but requires a 5mm diameter hole in the centre (for the spring)... we'll have to see how it works out. l. From simon at koala.ie Thu Jul 23 20:14:51 2015 From: simon at koala.ie (Simon Kenyon) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 20:14:51 +0100 Subject: [Arm-netbook] 15.6in laptop progress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55B13D2B.1030501@koala.ie> On 07/23/15 17:53, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: > is there no end to the detail that's needed?? > > okaay so i started on the screen edge, which (surprise) turned out to > need to be thicker than anticipated. increasing the thickness by 2mm > had a knock-on effect because, naturally, the base end depth has to be > increased to match. > > then i began work on the friction hinge for the screen lid, so that it > will remain upright. you'd think it would be easy to create an > interlock between two pieces 8mm in diameter that looks aesthetic and > is strong enough, but nooo i can tell you it damn well isn't :) > > now i am onto one of the final pieces of the puzzle: creating a lid > lock. this needs to be spring-loaded (ball-point biro pen spring, cut > into 1/4s 7mm long) and i am kinda amazed at how much detail is needed > in such a small space. the clasp is 10mm x 9mm x 8mm but requires a > 5mm diameter hole in the centre (for the spring)... we'll have to see > how it works out. > > l. > > _______________________________________________ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook at lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netbook at files.phcomp.co.uk most laptops these days have dispensed with a lid lock. imho this is a good idea. so i respectfully suggest that you dispense with it. -- simon From lkcl at lkcl.net Thu Jul 23 20:28:38 2015 From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 20:28:38 +0100 Subject: [Arm-netbook] 15.6in laptop progress In-Reply-To: <55B13D2B.1030501@koala.ie> References: <55B13D2B.1030501@koala.ie> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 8:14 PM, Simon Kenyon wrote: > most laptops these days have dispensed with a lid lock. > imho this is a good idea. > so i respectfully suggest that you dispense with it. yeah i thought about how to achieve a lockless lid, and with the available materials i concluded that it would not be practical right now: notably, it would require custom-machined metal parts or to source parts and to redesign the laptop casework based around those parts. (a) sourcing parts takes time (b) custom-machining metal parts costs money (c) chances are high that sourced existing parts would not fit the unusual design (d) even using high-strength magnets there is no available space to fit the magnets into the lid without weakening the plastic lid surround to the point of impracticality. so, logically, with all other options eliminated for various reasons, a lid lock is the sole remaining option. 's'the way it goes, simon. l. From laserhawk64 at gmail.com Thu Jul 23 20:32:26 2015 From: laserhawk64 at gmail.com (Christopher Havel) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 15:32:26 -0400 Subject: [Arm-netbook] 15.6in laptop progress In-Reply-To: References: <55B13D2B.1030501@koala.ie> Message-ID: @Luke -- how about having hinges with a little bit of a spring-click mechanism? That way you wouldn't have to put anything in the lid itself. I've seen hinges like that (for doors tho) at the hardware store. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lkcl at lkcl.net Thu Jul 23 20:44:29 2015 From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 20:44:29 +0100 Subject: [Arm-netbook] 15.6in laptop progress In-Reply-To: References: <55B13D2B.1030501@koala.ie> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 8:32 PM, Christopher Havel wrote: > @Luke -- how about having hinges with a little bit of a spring-click > mechanism? that's where the machined metal would be needed. the screen weighs 450g, and its depth is around 21cm. 1/2 way point is 10cm, so we're looking at .45*10/10 = .45 Nm of torque.... on an 8mm diameter hinge, which means average .45/.02 = 22N of force exerted. > That way you wouldn't have to put anything in the lid itself. > I've seen hinges like that (for doors tho) at the hardware store. where would one obtain custom-made 8mm diameter spring-click hinges without requiring paying machining fees or to place an order with a MOQ beyond realistic levels? over the past 4 years we've been down this road before several times, and i've decided i'm not going to waste time and effort on it. so i've decided i'm taking the path of least resistance, knowing that once that path has been successful any changes may be accommodated *afterwards*, when there is finance available from steady sustainable income. l. From laserhawk64 at gmail.com Thu Jul 23 20:46:35 2015 From: laserhawk64 at gmail.com (Christopher Havel) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 15:46:35 -0400 Subject: [Arm-netbook] 15.6in laptop progress In-Reply-To: References: <55B13D2B.1030501@koala.ie>

Message-ID: Oh well, it was just an idea... apparently not a good one, though. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lkcl at lkcl.net Thu Jul 23 20:53:32 2015 From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 20:53:32 +0100 Subject: [Arm-netbook] 15.6in laptop progress In-Reply-To: References: <55B13D2B.1030501@koala.ie>

Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 8:46 PM, Christopher Havel wrote: > Oh well, it was just an idea... apparently not a good one, though. it's a good one.... *if* there's a budget for - and time to source - the part. l. From laserhawk64 at gmail.com Thu Jul 23 20:58:16 2015 From: laserhawk64 at gmail.com (Christopher Havel) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 15:58:16 -0400 Subject: [Arm-netbook] 15.6in laptop progress In-Reply-To: References: <55B13D2B.1030501@koala.ie>

Message-ID: Ah. In that case... Small rectangular notch in one side of each hinge barrel (I think barrel's the term... the part that goes around the pin). Little teeny ball bearing (like 2-3mm dia, you know, the sort of stuff you find in a BB gun) with a stiff spring behind it (either a coil spring, or a leaf spring with a long lip and a dimple to hold the BB). One on each side ought to do it. You can even have the notch on the same side for both hinges, if there's room... if not, I say notch both sides of the hinge so it'll work in either direction. Again, just a thought. File it somewhere if ya can't use it now... never know when it'll come in handy ;) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lkcl at lkcl.net Thu Jul 23 21:09:00 2015 From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 21:09:00 +0100 Subject: [Arm-netbook] 15.6in laptop progress In-Reply-To: References: <55B13D2B.1030501@koala.ie>

Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 8:58 PM, Christopher Havel wrote: > Ah. In that case... > > Small rectangular notch in one side of each hinge barrel (I think barrel's > the term... the part that goes around the pin). Little teeny ball bearing > (like 2-3mm dia, you know, the sort of stuff you find in a BB gun) with a > stiff spring behind it (either a coil spring, or a leaf spring with a long > lip and a dimple to hold the BB). One on each side ought to do it. You can > even have the notch on the same side for both hinges, if there's room... if > not, I say notch both sides of the hinge so it'll work in either direction. yeahhh you remember i said there's an 8mm barrel to work with? that's the outer dimensions. printing a part to fit in there needs to be a maximum of a 37mm radius, and there's a 20mm diameter bolt down the middle as well. but the accuracy of the printer is, when creating parts, esp. complex ones, limited to about 1.5mm *if that*. so there's no way i would be able to fit even a 1.5mm diameter ball bearing inside... and still have it be strong enough. the only way i'm confident about what i've created with the friction hinge that i've designed is that it's reasonably chunky. when i made things too thin (1.5mm or below) they just... broke off. no, what i considered reasonable would be to have a D-shaped ring which you push-fit onto one end of the friction hinge, then house a simple flat spring that bends against the D. when the spring hits the flat of the D, that's when it helps keep the lid closed. when it's bent, it helps act as a friction hinge. .... but even just sourcing steel flat springs and D-shaped rings i just... i can't be having with it. i've had enough. really. i want this done, and i want it out the door, no delays dealing with suppliers or with creating experimental prototype mechanical custom-made custom-machined parts. i have a 3d printer, i have some 2mm threaded bar, i have some M2 8mm screws, and i have a spring from a biro. once product is sold, *then* we can get fancy. l. From phil at hands.com Thu Jul 23 21:03:01 2015 From: phil at hands.com (Philip Hands) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 21:03:01 +0100 Subject: [Arm-netbook] 15.6in laptop progress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <871tfyabgq.fsf@whist.hands.com> Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton writes: > is there no end to the detail that's needed?? > > okaay so i started on the screen edge, which (surprise) turned out to > need to be thicker than anticipated. increasing the thickness by 2mm > had a knock-on effect because, naturally, the base end depth has to be > increased to match. > > then i began work on the friction hinge for the screen lid, so that it > will remain upright. you'd think it would be easy to create an Nope ;-) > interlock between two pieces 8mm in diameter that looks aesthetic and > is strong enough, but nooo i can tell you it damn well isn't :) > > now i am onto one of the final pieces of the puzzle: creating a lid > lock. this needs to be spring-loaded (ball-point biro pen spring, cut > into 1/4s 7mm long) and i am kinda amazed at how much detail is needed > in such a small space. the clasp is 10mm x 9mm x 8mm but requires a > 5mm diameter hole in the centre (for the spring)... we'll have to see > how it works out. You could just not bother with a lock. I have a Lenovo Thinkpad X230, and it has no lock on the lid. There is a slight impression that the lid snaps shut when almost closed, but it's not clear if that's really the case. You could alternatively do some sort of rotating thing on the corners, like the OLPC's wifi arials. Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/ http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg, GERMANY -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 818 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lkcl at lkcl.net Thu Jul 23 21:23:57 2015 From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 21:23:57 +0100 Subject: [Arm-netbook] 15.6in laptop progress In-Reply-To: <871tfyabgq.fsf@whist.hands.com> References: <871tfyabgq.fsf@whist.hands.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:03 PM, Philip Hands wrote: >> then i began work on the friction hinge for the screen lid, so that it >> will remain upright. you'd think it would be easy to create an > > Nope ;-) you'd be right! > You could just not bother with a lock. yehhh the friction hinge isn't accurate enough, there's a few degrees of play and that means the lid will be flapping by about... at least 1 maybe even 2cm once wear sets in. > I have a Lenovo Thinkpad X230, and it has no lock on the lid. > > There is a slight impression that the lid snaps shut when almost closed, > but it's not clear if that's really the case. > > You could alternatively do some sort of rotating thing on the corners, > like the OLPC's wifi arials. ah! of course! nice idea... i don't hold out much hope (the screen edge plastic is only 2.5mm thick as it is) - i'll try to drop it into my tiny subconscious and see what happens over the next couple of days. l. From hc at jehg.dk Fri Jul 24 22:19:35 2015 From: hc at jehg.dk (Hans-Christian Jehg) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 23:19:35 +0200 Subject: [Arm-netbook] 15.6in laptop progress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:03 PM, Philip Hands wrote: > >>> then i began work on the friction hinge for the screen lid, so that >it >>> will remain upright. you'd think it would be easy to create an >> >> Nope ;-) > > you'd be right! > >> You could just not bother with a lock. > > yehhh the friction hinge isn't accurate enough, there's a few degrees >of play and that means the lid will be flapping by about... at least 1 >maybe even 2cm once wear sets in. > >> I have a Lenovo Thinkpad X230, and it has no lock on the lid. >> >> There is a slight impression that the lid snaps shut when almost >closed, >> but it's not clear if that's really the case. >> >> You could alternatively do some sort of rotating thing on the >corners, >> like the OLPC's wifi arials. > Magnet(s) to hold the lid closed? > ah! of course! nice idea... i don't hold out much hope (the screen >edge plastic is only 2.5mm thick as it is) - i'll try to drop it into >my tiny subconscious and see what happens over the next couple of >days. > >l. From lkcl at lkcl.net Sat Jul 25 02:56:07 2015 From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton) Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 02:56:07 +0100 Subject: [Arm-netbook] 15.6in laptop progress In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 10:19 PM, Hans-Christian Jehg wrote: > Magnet(s) to hold the lid closed? the edge of the lid is 2.5mm thick, so that's out. the front of the lid.... maybe. that's a curved piece that's about.... 8mm wide. oh wait.... i was going to cover it in a (very thin) metal sheet, to hold the screen into its plastic surround... hmm... i should imagine poking a hole in it to let magnetic attraction through shouuuld be ok.... ... yeah i'll find some on amazon, hans :) l. From lkcl at lkcl.net Mon Jul 27 12:20:48 2015 From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 12:20:48 +0100 Subject: [Arm-netbook] 15.6in laptop progress In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 2:56 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 10:19 PM, Hans-Christian Jehg wrote: > >> Magnet(s) to hold the lid closed? > > the edge of the lid is 2.5mm thick, so that's out. the front of the > lid.... maybe. that's a curved piece that's about.... 8mm wide. oh > wait.... i was going to cover it in a (very thin) metal sheet, to hold > the screen into its plastic surround... hmm... i should imagine poking > a hole in it to let magnetic attraction through shouuuld be ok.... yep, making a clasp is too complex: magnets it is. and i guess if the screen bezel is made from steel it would be magnetic. l.